Jayco tow ball weight

Submitted: Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 16:03
ThreadID: 142306 Views:1968 Replies:7 FollowUps:16
We have a 2300kg Jayco caravan with a front kitchen. I have tried numerous methods to reduce the towball weight but it is still around 270kg. There’s nothing in the front boot except the gas cylinders and most of the heavy items are over the wheels.

270kg is well over the 10% of ATM and on the limit of my vehicle.

Any suggestions for reducing the weight?
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Reply By: Keir & Marg - Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 17:02

Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 17:02
Many of the Jaycos have the spare wheel in the front boot. If you have the spare wheel in the front boot, you could relocate it to the back bumper??
AnswerID: 637348

Reply By: Craig A - Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 17:41

Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 17:41
Relocated to the rear bar already. Mine was flat on the front drawbar before I moved it.
AnswerID: 637349

Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 18:06

Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 18:06
Shifting weight to the ends of a caravan is a very bad move in terms of stability.
High yaw inertia is a major cause of instability and roll overs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Reply By: axle - Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 18:03

Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 18:03
G/ Day, Craig,

My B/Inlaw tows a Jayco Heritage twin axle of about the same weight, with a 100s Toyo

seems to stay legal with the ball weight (350kg), and the thing is loaded up pretty well.

Cheers Axle
AnswerID: 637350

Reply By: RMD - Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 18:12

Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 18:12
Craig.
I can't understand why a dual wheel van has to have so much ball weight. Perhaps someone can explain why. Is it possible to relocate the water tank or tank/s to behind the axle if not there already?
Internal loading?
My opinion is with too much ball weight the porpoising over some terrain flaps the front of the vehicle and it's wheels up and down and minimizes the stability in some situations.
AnswerID: 637351

Reply By: Kazza055 - Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 18:39

Sunday, Aug 01, 2021 at 18:39
Our van weighs around 2500kg with a ball weight of around 300kg. It was more than that before I moved the batteries from the boot to the chassis rails.

You don't mention whether it tows ok or not, if it tows ok, leave it as it is.

Besides moving the batteries I also mounted 2 small tool boxes to the rear bumper. End result it tows very well.
AnswerID: 637352

Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Monday, Aug 02, 2021 at 17:42

Monday, Aug 02, 2021 at 17:42
He has already stated that the 270kg is too much ball weight to be legal. I,m guessing a Pajero. Anything over 2500kg cannot exceed 180kg ball weight although his weight is around 2300kg.
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FollowupID: 915416

Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Aug 02, 2021 at 08:59

Monday, Aug 02, 2021 at 08:59
Guys, you need to remember that the so called 10% is not a rule, just a recommendation. There are quite a few vans around that have a lower or higher TBM than 10% of ATM.

Our van (not a Jayco) is 18’, Single Axle at 2.6 Tonne ATM, with a maximum TBM of 350 Kgs. (actual ATM when fully loaded is approx. 2.5 Tonne with a TBM of 348 kgs). It tows very well at all speeds, no sway, car is pretty much level, and the front wheels on the car are not in danger of “lift off”. The Tare Weight was 2,079 Kgs with a TBM of 236 Kgs at Tare according to weigh bridge certificate supplied.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Wednesday, Aug 04, 2021 at 17:41

Wednesday, Aug 04, 2021 at 17:41
With a tow ball weight of 350kg, GVM of 3350kg and a tare of 2740kg it leaves ve6y little for luggage. This is for a 200 series. Add bullbar, side steps, extra battery and roof rack (empty) this would add another 120kg leaving 140kg only. Barely enough for a passenger. Start putting anything else in and you would be illegal. A tow ball weight of 200kg would allow at least some luggage.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 08:26

Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 08:26
Hi Bigfish,

I am not sure, but if I understand your comments, you are suggesting that I am overweight. You are making an assumption that is incorrect. My 200 Series has had a GVM upgrade to 3850 Kgs. I can assure you that I am legal fully loaded with a full tank of fuel. I have had it weighed, including rear axle weight, and all legal.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 08:33

Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 08:33
Not suggesting you are overweight at all. Just saying that a towball weight of say 350kg compared to 200kg makes a big difference to what a vehicle can carry as weight. Without a GVM upgrade many vehicles would be unable to tow max weight and carry anything at all. Many people are also ignorant of manufacturers axle weights as well. I think you will find police/inspectors will be targeting cars/vans/campers in near future as the road is more congested with travellers. I see thousands of rigs passing through Cairns every year...many are obviously overweight and the owners are well aware of this! Some people, like yourself, realise the legallities of towing at max weight and ensure their rigs are compliant. Others just take a chance and hope for the best..
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 08:45

Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 08:45
No problem Bigfish, it is just that your response was a follow up on my post where I stated that my TBM was 350 Kgs. which seemed to be directed towards me. All good.

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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 10:00

Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 10:00
I caught this on my dash cam just a few days ago.
There was a "whoopsie" in the road.
The LH front tyre of the tug was off the ground. I expect the RH one was too.
Was it still "under control"?

Any connection between this and the OP's situation is pure speculation.
https://youtu.be/iEtXlQ2dztk
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
AnswerID: 637392

Follow Up By: Kanga1 - Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 11:06

Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 11:06
Very little front axle weight on that disaster waiting to happen. Pretty scary though, all things considered.
Thanks for putting that up.
Tempus Fugit

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Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 13:46

Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 13:46
Peter.
That is exactly what I mentioned above and does happen. If he hit the whoopsies when turning back in then it would be even more interesting. How are the brakes on the Oka? What is it like in the Moose test?
There is no way most modern 4wd's can control the instantaneous mass transfers which happen like that. If the rear shocks cannot absorb then the rear axle nears or does bottom out, and the result is the front is pitched up and down violently. Poor, read OE, front shocks cannot cope with that. Just because the vehicle can tow the caravan doesn't mean all is correct.
The Monroe shock absorber advert used to say, "Don't find your shocks are worn or not working, BY ACCIDENT" Words to that effect anyway.
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FollowupID: 915456

Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 15:04

Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 15:04
"How are the brakes on the Oka? What is it like in the Moose test?"
Unlike most other vehicles of its ilk, the OKA has 4 big discs, one on each wheel, and they work. Formally tested by my engineer.
Moose test? Lots of body roll, and more stable that it looks. Never tested to its limit at higher speed, but tyre grip on bitumen is such that it would fall over rather than slide.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 19:11

Thursday, Aug 05, 2021 at 19:11
Peter. I wasn't doubting your vehicle, just thinking the brakes would be used if they lost control and some steering also have to be performed.
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FollowupID: 915463

Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 09:03

Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 09:03
Understand. I doubt that the "cut off" was deliberate. The driver was possibly just busy holding it together.
Although, I must also say that it is not uncommon for caravan drivers especially to cut in way too early for no particular reason. There is a 2 or 3 second gap suggestion between vehicles and that needs to be maintained during overtaking manoeuvres too.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 09:29

Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 09:29
Almost every driver who overtakes a truck or a towed rig cuts in. Drivers of suburban shopping trolleys and P platers are the worst in my experience, filling up my braking space and safety margin.
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Follow Up By: Kazza055 - Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 10:20

Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 10:20
I use the camera on the back of the van, once I can see all of the front of the vehicle, I know I can safely go back into the left lane.
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FollowupID: 915474

Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 11:01

Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 11:01
Peter.
I didn't think he unduly cut in, and at the rate he overtook you he wouldn't be close in front for very long at all.
When driving coaches for a while, semi's and B doubles would overtake. and at night, I flashed the Highbeam to indicate they had cleared. Then they swing in after the signal. Many times there was suddenly a departing large vehicle 4 to 5 metres in front but drawing away. No big deal, it happens ALL the time and I have never felt confronted, no pun. If they remained there then yes, an issue arises.

I would prefer anyone to cut in, so called, but not violently, especially if there was unexpected oncoming traffic which may cause an accident everyone can then not avoid.
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FollowupID: 915475

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 14:09

Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 14:09
The number of oscillations in the front end suggests to me that his front shockies are either inadequate for the towing job, or are very close to buggered!

Some years back, I was a passenger in a 79 series station ute that had a front shockie u/s, or missing, and the antics of the front end were similar, or worse, than Peter's example.

Bob

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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 19:20

Friday, Aug 06, 2021 at 19:20
Bob Y
The oscillations might also be caused, not only by poor shocks on front, but poor ones at the rear AND far too
much ball weight of a big van which under such condition will also pitch and cause instantaneous mass transfer onto the ball of 2x or 3x normal ball weight. That probably adds to the front flapping up and down too. The OP was/is concerned with ball weight.
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FollowupID: 915482

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