Solarking lithium batteries

Yeah got that too.

At top of page click on batteries then lithium will take you to where the OP was trying to link.
Have dealt with LED on numerous occasions always been a great experience.

I wish people knew how to use this forum - if you just copy and paste a link you loose the last items in the link - hence the broken link.

If people learned how to use the forum you will see a link at the bottom of the draft thread or post titled "link" - paste in there in the right box and put a description in the other the other box and all is done.

Does beg the question though as to why the designers of this forum did that as it would be easier just be able to post the complete link in the post as the OP tried to do - works on most other forums.

Lithium chargers are different to normal ones, which are designed to float (keep pumping volts into the battery after it is full) This will kill a lithium. If you refer to your phone, its charger pumps that lithium battery up to 75% then is disconnected before starting again 2 hours before you wake up to top it off slowly.

.
Dozer, you must have a very Smart Phone that can predict that you will wake up in 2 hours in order to resume charging from 75%.
Any phone I've ever had fully completed its charging from when it is placed on the charger, hopefully before I wake up.

This charger used a rather more exciting system to say the battery was (over)done Allan: Lithium battery warning

.
Yes, I saw that report Bazooka. Rather nasty.

I think the incidence of dramatic electrical failures of appliance is on the increase, partly because of proliferation of users and maybe also because of competitive manufacturing costs lowering the safety margins. Small devices in plastic enclosures such as phone chargers can fail to contain meltdown and consequently ignite nearby material. They are connected to a 230v circuit protected by (typically) a 20 Amp breaker. Such a breaker may not interrupt the supply to a small device and continue to support an inferno.
In the report, the Fire Officer Mr Muller said.... "one way to prevent battery fires was to use batteries from the original manufacturer, rather than buy cheaper, knock-off brands." Perhaps this implies that it was the case in this instance. My garage is equiped with a smoke alarm but, even so, I do not leave battery chargers on unattended. And I do avoid "cheap knock-off brands". It is called 'risk minimisation'.

On the same theme, the electrics in the RV that I am currently configuring is receiving very careful consideration from me, including the choice of its lithium battery. It would not be trivial for it to go up in flames!

p.s. this is another sobering report.

I wish people knew how to spell on this forum. lose or loose ?

Riverman
The list is endless, metre/meter. you can't check your lithium battery voltage level with a metre! metre of what? "Shkools aren't wot they yoused to bee". I should have, Should've, is now "should of" which has no bearing on should have. "Of and have" are different when I went to learning. Lazy speaking makes lazy mind.

"Predicktive" text could be the cause sometimes.

"I wish people knew how to spell on this forum. lose or loose ?"

Also the use of capitals and spacing. l in lose should be a capital L and there is no space between loose and ?

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek in response to " I wish people knew how to use this forum". Not all of us are that tech savvy. No harm intended.

It must be hard to post links because plenty get it wrong. Perhaps a learning video on Utube by those unhappy with the performance or a simple explanation perhaps.

When making a tongue in cheek/ witty comment Riverman I find it pays to put a smiley on the end to indicate to some contributors that you are in fact joking.
Dave.

Which highlights the fact about not being tech savvy. don't know how to put one of your " smiley faces "on the end. Pardon my ignorance.

Where the intent isn't obvious, colon/semi-colon dash bracket works rm eg :-) ;-)

Apparently /s at the end of a sentence has some traction to indicate sarcasm, irony, jest but it's not widely enough used to be readily understood on many forums. I kid you not, they even have names for these things - tone indicators.

Maybe if people are so concerned about the spelling on this forum they should join the "Ye Olde School for Professional Spellers"...sign in as Tosser!!

.
Nah. Waste of time. In the past I corrected a few errors to no avail. Just got flamed!
Doubt they could even grasp what I was talking about.
Gave up as a lost cause.
Won't even need to spell in the future. Just gaze at icons on a smart phone and mumble incoherently.

Lloyd,
Are you using your existing lead-acid/AGM battery charging system, or did you upgrade to a charger with a profile for lithium batteries?
Some manufacturers say that you will need to change your charging system, but Solar King reckon their inbuilt BMS can handle the charging regime from a lead-acid battery charger.
Thanks, Keir

In our van the solar controller and the existing battery charger were programable to meet the lithium batteries needs.

.
To me that says that they are either sloppy or they want "2 Bob each way".
The "straight drop-in" is an attractive sales pitch and the "must check your charger" bit is a 'Get-Out-of-Jail' clause for when a supplied battery goes belly-up.
There really is no excuse for any manufacturer/supplier to not provide clear and correct information on their promotions. Such dereliction immediately turns me away from any further dealing with them. There are plenty of other suppliers who can get it right.

Totally agree..

I did a lot of research and bought 2 120AH Solar King Batteries 2 years ago. They have been great. I did upgrade the chargers etc to lithium.

The statement looks reasonable to me BF, esp as the lithium charging info is mentioned at the start, but it's possible buyers who have no/limited knowledge might be confused by the 'drop-in' reference as you and Allan have said.

Many people have existing systems with switchable charging profiles. Most (more expensive) modern chargers will either detect the battery type automatically (LA, AGM, LFP) or can be programmed to make a suitable LFP charging profile.

As LED suggests, it depends....

Perhaps they could add a warning: do NOT use a lead acid charging profile for this battery.
Then they'd also have to add:
This battery is NOT suitable as a replacement starter battery,
This battery should NOT be used under bonnet without proper heat shielding,
This battery will last longer if not fully discharged on a regular basis
This battery will last longer if not kept at high capacity during periods of inactivity etc etc

Wrt LED - if anyone is worried about the website, whatever you do don't look at google maps to find their shop! That said, during my research for LFPs I found quite a few comments about the business - all positive. They've been offering the extended warranty on some SK batteries for at least 18 months.

If I was JohnR I'd be checking the wording of the extra warranty, and also looking at other sellers like Trailer Camper Australia which is often a little cheaper - albeit without the extended warranty - and has more stores. They have recently added Duramax LFPs to their range. Good specs and 5yr warranty to boot.

Wrt warranty. Considering "normal" usage, statutory warranty should be 5 years anyway, esp if you keep a history of usage. Big IF I guess but all reputable LFP sellers advertise so many cycles at such and such discharge so the argument should be pretty easily made.

This however is stated on their main webpage for the 100amp lithium...

"If you are replacing an existing deep cycle lead acid battery you can continue to use your same battery charging system as the built-in battery management system with do the rest for you. You will also notice that lithium batteries charge more efficiently than lead acid batteries so the recovery will be much quicker."

Then contradicted in further information......"You must check that your charger is suitable/adjustable for Lithium batteries, but this battery is generally great as a straight drop-in replacement for your existing 12v AGM or Gel deep cycle battery!"


I am not aware of any battery charger that automatically selects the appropriate battery and adjusts the charge accordingly. Which ones are they as I would be interested in them.

.
Inbuilt lithium battery management systems monitor and activate battery shutdown if conditions exceed set parameters. They also can maintain cell balance. But they do not replace the algorithmic function of a correctly specified charger.
Sure, there are people using non-specific chargers for their lithium battery and seemingly getting away with it. You can get away with almost anything if you are prepared to accept the consequences.
Respected suppliers of lithium batteries always specify using a correctly programmed charger.

All batteries benefit from mindful usage and when paying the high prices of a lithium battery, it makes good sense to treat it with care.

On the Solar King website BF? Yes saw that. I doubt it very much although with expensive BMS' with appropriate connectors (which is extremely unlikely in such a cheap LFP) I gather you can program it to manage many different things related to the battery( cells and their condition - IF you have the smarts. I guess there's no obvious reason why it couldn't manage incoming charge if the hardware and chip was

Chargers which detect battery type? Lol. I HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE!!!!

Don't know why I wrote it either - sorry. Can't blame alcohol-induced memory failure but I was actually half asleep and thinking of my Victron smart charger when I replied. This has an app to select the algorithm and I'd forgotten I did that many moons ago so now it's plug n play.

I just did a quick google to check if any such device exists and found a similar claim on the - wait for it - Aussie Battery website. Pretty sure they've also stuffed up but they made it sound plausible by claiming smart chargers use voltage to detect the battery type. Surely if that was practicable most high-end charger manufacturers would have implemented it???

Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

hahaha...all good....

quoute Dozer, you must have a very Smart Phone that can predict that you will wake up in 2 hours in order to resume charging from 75%.quote.
My Iphone 7 does this every time I charge it overnight by taking the last time I took it off the charger at say 7am or 8am. It predicts to have the phone fully charged by 7am etc.

.
Yes, since iOS13, iPhones incorporate an "Optimal Battery Charging" app which aims to prolong battery life by avoiding maintaining the battery at full charge for an unnecessary length of time. It does this by suspending charge at 80% then continuing to 100% just prior to a pre-determined time in readiness for daily use. The timing of the charge completion is determined by an algorithm using prior phone behaviour.
It seems yet to be determined how well this is in extending the iPhone battery life.

This practise has also been recommended for Lithium batteries being used in vehicles. The advice is to discharge the battery to 80% state-of-charge if it will not be used again within a few weeks.

It is still a learning curve, some vendors are say discharge to a low level and store, others are say fully charge and store, take your pick!

Some say store at a high charge state is detrimental in high temperatures. Same for under bonnet, some vendors say don't, others warranty their product when under bonnet.

Going to take around the same amount of time to get concrete rules as it was for lead acid, but then again their still disagreement with lead acid!

Just do what you want as by the time your LifePo4 dies there will probably be a new type you'll have to have.

Batteries are a consumable, look at current car technology, used to be preferable to keep your car battery fully charged then low voltage alternators came along. Then regenerative braking technology where the battery is purposely get at lower than 100% SOC so charge can be stored. Then along came stop start cars, around two years battery life seems the norm with them.

I got two years out of very expensive gels with my camper and worried over charging them all the time, My Litiums are now 5 years old, still test as new and they are charger using a gel setting on one charger, user settings on another and I rarely look at them. Car aux is 2 years old, charged directly off alternator but must say it hasn't had that much use but still tests as new. Pervious lead acids have had to be replaced after around 3 years and yes the aux does get abused but the Lithium is handling it fine so far.

Personally the only lead acid I will now have is the starter battery, when they come up with a charging system in cars that I feel can handle having the battery disconnect I'll be all Lithium.

So to follow on from here regarding not storing fully charged what do you do with a dual battery system in a vehicle which is being charged all the time? is that detrimental to the battery life if you are not discharging them as there is no load on them when vehicle is in daily drive mode as must do end their time

Lithium stored fully charged or discharged or 80% charged, Hmm, I am waiting for someone to mention they can't be stored on a concrete floor either, ie, like early lead acid batteries.

I,ve a lithium as the aux battery. When car is parked at home and the lithium not required I have a master switch that is easily accessible and ensure the battery is around 80% as suggested by manufacturer and most lithium battery sites. In my opinion a master switch is necessary as a safety measure to ensure the lithium has no connection to anything in the vehicle when not in use. I also did the same when I had AGM batteries as auxiliary.

.
I think Leigh's advice is very appropriate..............

"Just do what you want as by the time your LifePo4 dies there will probably be a new type you'll have to have."

From my extensive web reading of LFP battery testing and the 'scientific' knowledge behind the behaviour of the chemistry (cylindrical and prismatic format, not pouch) I'd summarise the general consensus on LFP chemistry and best management as:

1) Forcing the last bit of charge into the battery at a high charge rate will reduce life. Hence lithium chargers (and possibly the more expensive BMS') should regulate the amps according the SoC. Smart chargers do this for LA and AGM also afaik. There's plenty of info on this if you search.
2) Storing LFP cells at a constant "100%" will reduce life.
3) Exposure to regular high heat will reduce life.

Reduce life by how much? I found nothing which attempted to quantify that, possibly because there are so many variables. I inferred that the advice is based on how lithium chemistry changes under the 1,2,3 situations above in lab tests. At least some of the data regarding "reduced life" appears to be based on extensive bench testing of individual cells over time.

Whether the reduction is significant obviously depends not just on the environmental/mgt factors but on user expectations - and how much you outlayed. :-)

.
Bazooka, I'd go along with that.
But it is a cert that just when we are getting a handle on it they will come up with LiFePO4Ca cells!

Many manufactuirers say store around 80% or less. I wonder if being in the battery manufacturing business they know something about their product?

.
Not necessarily!

Retailers maybe Allan..but I,d expect manufacturers to know what to recommend for their batteries..

Manufacturers, probably. Assemblers, importers, wholesalers and retailers - not so much.

Plenty of specialist retailers do, as you'd expect.

Recently had a brief phone discussion with a rep from a fridge "manufacturer" (made OS under license). I was trying to find out what compressor they used and its capacity. He wouldn't/couldn't tell me the capacity, only that "unlike other fridge brands they were made 'by' them". I pointed out that wasn't the case but he repeated his claim quite stridently so I let it go. I also asked if it was a variable speed compressor. He insisted they didn't work, primarily I suspect because his product used the older, proven (cheaper) spec, as do most makers. Despite his brand induced blindness I eventually bought one of their fridges. Lol.