Crossovers : Ford Territory / Toyota Kluger

Submitted: Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 17:52
ThreadID: 14288 Views:3717 Replies:10 FollowUps:19
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I own a Jack (wife has sort of taken it over) but as life and my physical ability and bank balance go south I thought it appropriate to try and save some money and replace another 4x4 we had with something that did not need us to invade Iraq ourselves to supply the fuel for - the idea was to use that for normal driving and use the Jack for 4X4 stuff (the rough bits)
Rightly or wrongly we bought a Kluger CVX - Have now done 11,000K including a trip and are getting 12.8L 100K vs Jack average all conditions of 17.7 L 100K
The question I have is - Why the "hype" going on about the new Ford Territory? Incidentally it was not available when I purchased and I have no brand loyalty (apart from Isuzu Jacks)
Why would anyone buy a 4x4 crossover that delivers the same petrol consumption and does less than a conventional 4x4? Why? Why? Why? Why?
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Reply By: WDR - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 17:53

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 17:53
The question remains
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:00

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:00
Many people will buy one because they are a 4WD lookalike, high driving position and a drivers car. Lots of wagon buyers will buy them too. 7 seats and under $40000 in Rear WD version, lots of power and they're a very good vehicle. Thats really the reason for the hype, in todays Wheels mag, just landed the Territory flogs the Kluger and Paj.

Why would anyone buy a Toyota? why why why, thats a rhetorical question.
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Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:21

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:21
Bonz, Ill bite as usual, you buy Toyotas because they are the best !!!
Right Des , come on yota owners hit the Keyboard, give Bonz a serv.

The Jack must be a turbo deisel, so if you compare it with a Jack petrol you would have a whole different answer, and you are comparing a medium 4WD with an AWD soft roader in petrol thats designed to run bitumen and gravel roads, hardly a comparison.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:12

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:12
In that case the answer to why one would buy a Territory is the same. Theyre the best. COTY2004 for sure.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:17

Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:17
Bonz, car of yr? LMAO

there was a story in local paper, they took Territory, the holden one, and the kluger out on a full test in outback.

the holden was flat bed back to melbourne when it failed to start, and the fords joined it failing and the Yota sadly won..
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 17:33

Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 17:33
Mark my words, the Territory os THE most significant vehicle to be released and lauded in Australia since the ute.
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Reply By: Baz (NSW) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:39

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:39
Hows this fellas, i have a Ford Explorer and a Toyota Camry, personally i would go the Kluger but then again i would go the Territory, hard choice i think so buy another Jack, if you like them or a Rodeo, stick with what you know and what you like or let the wife choose. Just my opinion.

Baz.
AnswerID: 65999

Reply By: Diesel Do - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:41

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:41
WDR,

To my way of thinking, maybe it's for the towing capacity and room, but without the high maintenance costs of a true 4wd?

All I have to go on is what the Ford sales people say about servicing costs for the Territory (same cost whether rwd or awd), and much less than a td 4wd of any make. Don't need to service them every 5,000 k either.

These might be reasons enough to buy one as a tourer.

Fuel economy and tank size are suss, and the road clearance ain't there - but I think you can do a lap of oz without leaving the bitumen these days.

I've just spent a few months comparing the options to replace my GU Td. There were at least 20 different vehicles that were "possibles". My biggest complaint with most of the awd cars is that they must have rear ends made out of tin foil, and can't tow much. They all seem to have tiny fuel tanks as well.

The Territory was high on my list - but I'll never buy another first release car again!

Regards,
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Reply By: Muddy 'doe (SA) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:54

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 18:54
I'll stick with the Prado thanks.

Real 4WD hardware, 180 litre fuel tank = 1,500km range or better, loads of turbo-diesel torque, reliable 1KZ-TE motor has a minimum of computerised crap on it to stuff up, HEAPs of room inside, Lexus build quality, goes to all the places I want to go, cruises beautifully at 110kph using 12l/100km loaded.

What more could I ask for?

The only possible improvement would be to go up to full size luxury (Lexus/Rangie/Tourag) but at twice the price.

Steven
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:13

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:13
umm Character maybe?
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Follow Up By: Muddy 'doe (SA) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:38

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:38
Ha!

I never said it was the most attractive beast did I?? LOL

I cop enough from Truckster about it being bug ugly with those headlights and rounded shapes. At least the bull bar hides the headlights and breaks up the front profile a bit.

Goes good though and that's all that counts for me!

Steven
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:18

Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:18
"What more could I ask for? "

Style, looks, a good looking front end, a bullbar that could improve its looks... the list goes on..

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Reply By: Sparkie - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 19:14

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 19:14
I too own a Jack and as for fuel economy driving lean it is 12.8 l/100k on open road and 14.7 in town. It is a 3.2 l V6.I must admit I did not have much in it so maybe it is why the reasonable figures but I am very happy with the Jack.I'd say stick with the Jack as mine has 230 000 kays on it and it still runs well.
AnswerID: 66008

Reply By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 19:51

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 19:51
>The question I have is - Why the "hype" going on about the new Ford Territory

Because it is such a good vehicle designed and built right here in Oz. You've read the reviews...equal to an x5 at a fraction of the price, this is the reason it took Ford so long to get it onto the showroom floors. It is not a cut and paste job.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:15

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:15
Hear Hear Raymond, Couldn't have said it better myself. Go Oz
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Follow Up By: vuduguru - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:26

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:26
Makes a lotof sense if you are comparing it to an x5... german holdens!
Shane
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:45

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:45
Call the x5 whatever you like but they are the softroader benchmark that manufactures aspire to equal.

Bonzy babe...you're a ford freak! :)
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Follow Up By: Muddy 'doe (SA) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:50

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 21:50
I want to see Ford meet their supposed sales target of 20,000 a year (revised from 25,000 initially). That is almost twice what the established current top selling (all 4WD's) Prado sells and by my reckoning is about 20% of ALL 4WD/AWD sales. According to this months Overlander the Adventra sold 208 copies in April and Holden were happy.

Best of luck Ford!

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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 22:05

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 22:05
Darn Ray my cover os blown.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 22:56

Thursday, Jul 01, 2004 at 22:56
May figure for the Adventura was 250 units compared with 1046 pre release May sales for the Territory. June figures wil be released soon.
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 08:56

Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 08:56
But how many of the Territory sales were RWD and not AWD??? Keep in mind that there is a $4k premium for the AWD model.

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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:10

Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:10
I don't know the answer to that Savvas but I expect more RWD than AWD. Most people who buy either softroaders or 4x4's of any make don't wont 4 wheel drive but are forced into it with the lack of option.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2004 at 12:57

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2004 at 12:57
Holden not happy...Just heard they have reduced the price of the Adventura by 4 big ones.
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2004 at 14:19

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2004 at 14:19
I'd expect they have room to move on price. I feel sorry for the people that bought them at the original price and there's quite a few of them around here.
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Reply By: Savvas - Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 09:04

Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 09:04
WDR ... You made the right choice as far as soft-roaders go.

The Territory and Adventra are surrounded by hype and nothing else of any substance. The Territory at 178mm ground clearance, 23deg approach and 19.8deg departure angles, can never hope to match the Kluger offroad.

Even the Adventra has more clearance at at 200mm. It's the rear overhang that let's it down.

The Territory's real claim to fame is .... 30 storage compartments.

BTW, Adventra gets an all new V6 in 3rd or 4th quarter this year. The current V6 didn't go in as it is at end of life. Territory sales will erode at that time.
AnswerID: 66107

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:34

Friday, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:34
It depends on what you want out of the vehicle. The Territory will not match the Kluger off road but the Kluger will not match the Territory on road. The majority of buyers want very little off road ability if any.
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Reply By: Davo - Saturday, Jul 03, 2004 at 00:25

Saturday, Jul 03, 2004 at 00:25
in my opinion (since that's what we're all posting, after all), it's all about finding the right compromise..
if you added up the hours that you truly spend requiring a "live-axled, fully fledged 4WD" as a percentage of your annual usage, I'm sure that for 98% of us that the AWD/cross overs would suffice.
A key observation the most manufacturers seem to be missing is the all-important towing ability of the bigger 4WD's. This is very important.
Not just for caravanners, but also for (trailer)boaties, builders, and horse-float people.
I've done a lot of travelling around Australia, and a bit of it is by 4WD; not much though. Both as a youngster with my parents, and also as an adult on my own, you can get by with a "compromise vehicle". there weren't many places that we weren't able to get to through a shortcoming of the vehicle.
Granted, these will never compete with the hard-core bead-locked and diff-locked 4WD's. For those that actually use their 4WD's as radical hillclimbers, Kudos to them; you're using the vehicle per it's design brief. The idea however, of these cross-overs is not to go rock-hopping, but to give the AVERAGE motorist a feeling of competence when they may venture onto a corrugated road, for example.
As for the rest of the population who tow either caravans/camper trailers to caravan parks, national parks; there aren't that many spots left which require the "heavy-duty" 4WD to gain access.
Now I can understand that I will cop a tirade of abuse/advice/ridicule, but then again, that's the beauty of this great country that we live in.
I've rocked up to campsites in Kakadu, and the Daly River alongside backpackers in Holden Kingswood (and even Ford Falcon) station wagons; we both still got there; albeit myself in arguably greater comfort.
Maybe the difference in cost could have been spent on a camper trailer at the time..who knows; to me the end of the day, there are those that think about doing things, and it's those who are inevitably interrupted by others who are living those same thoughts/dreams....

It's all about getting out there. It won't be long (with hindsight) when there'll be no corrugated/dirt roads anywhere, and you'll be able to see everything in a Falcon/Commodore.

That's my soapbox for tonight.

Cheers,
Davo
2001 Mitsubishi Triton 4WD V6 DualCab
AnswerID: 66250

Follow Up By: rolande- Saturday, Jul 03, 2004 at 22:38

Saturday, Jul 03, 2004 at 22:38
Well said Davo!

Most annoying thing I see / read,

"We are making a trip around Australia and are wondering which 4WD to buy?"

Answer: You probably have never owned or driven a 4Wd, will probably never go further off-road than the track to the nearest camp or tourist spot, and absolutely DO NOT NEED a 4wd.

One of the best solutions I have seen is a guy who walked into a Ford dealership and bought a Falcon RV Ute, (raised, diff lock), to tow his 16' van around Australia. Now there is a guy who knows his stuff and what vehicle to use. Oh, and he was a dairy farmer for 30 years.

$20,000 less than comparable 4WD, cheaper maintenance, cheaper fuel, same comfort.

Rolande

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Reply By: Rep - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2004 at 12:06

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2004 at 12:06
Well as someone who has driven and ordered as his company lease vehicle a TS AWD Territory I guess I can give my perspective...

I predominantly drive on urban roads, mainly freeway and suburban driving with a fair bit of commuting during the week. I also spend my summer weekends driving to scuba diving locations with lots of gear including DPVs, camera gear, torches and camping gear not to mention dive tanks including nitrox and oxy tanks as part of the rescue kit. And possibly towing the 6 metre alloy runabout behind us with some dive coiurse students hitching a ride.

In winter, I spend a fair number of weekends heading to the ski-hills - driving mainly on sealed roads but the ever present risk of having to traverse snow covered mountain roads. As usual I am going to have to lug around passengers to and from the hill and a fair bit of gear including skis, boards etc.

I drove a variety of vehicles and I wanted something that had the dynamic poise and ride of a sedan without the billy cart ride of a serious off-roader - in addition to tonnes of room.

I have to spend a lot of time in the car driving for work - including lugging around product in the back then it made sense to have something that accomodated my active lifestyle and work requirements.

Driving the thing is a lot like driving a car and the ride/handling compromise is excellent for such a roomy vehicle. If I didn't need the occasional but necessary additional traction from AWD for gravel and snow covered roads I'd have saved the $4k and gone RWD. But then after I add the tranny cooler (std on the AWD model) for towing and the loss of the dynamic stability control then maybe having that capability is useful (especially when fuel consumption is covered by the company).

I looked @ the Toyota which is called 'Highlander' over here in NZ and at the end of the day driving them back to back - the Territory was more suitable for what I am going to use the vehicle for ie it meets my needs better than the other vehicles I short-listed. Won't be necessarily true for another - but it's a bloody good vehicle for what I need... hence my order.
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