Lithium Battery

Submitted: Sunday, Jun 12, 2022 at 19:31
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Suggestions for lithium battery for caravan. So many different types of lithium batteries please help.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Jun 12, 2022 at 22:41

Sunday, Jun 12, 2022 at 22:41
Why do you want a lithium battery?
Which features are important enough to get you to spend the dollars?
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome.
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 06:32

Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 06:32
Very good question.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 10:32

Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 10:32
Weight & volume Peter, weight & volume. But you do pay for that benefit!
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 10:41

Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 10:41
They are 2 reasons, but the OP's reasons may be different.
I am still using AGMs in our OKA and see no reason to change to anything else, but I am building another OKA MH and that will get Li batteries for weight (not volume) and power delivery reasons.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 11:18

Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 11:18
Yes, you did ask a good question Pete.
And I know that you have had good performance from your AGM's. I just couldn't resist.
I had satisfaction from my AGM's in the Troopy but it was Lithium in the Sprinter for weight & space considerations. Certainly not for high current delivery.

Macca's two-for-one expression is a common rule of thumb. It decrees that you need double the solar watts for the Ah that you are pulling from your battery.
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Allan

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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 09:18

Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 09:18
Hi Wongullasa,

Let me state at the outset that I am not an Auto Elec. nor a 12 volt expert, just someone who has been camping for almost 60 years.

There is really only one type of Lithium Battery suitable for deep cycle use, and that is Lithium Iron Phosphate, (LiFePo4). Lithium Ion, is not the same, and not really suitable.

As for LiFePo4 brand of batteries, Renogy get really good reviews and are reasonably priced. Enerdrive, and Fusion are a couple of others with good reviews. ITech World have had mixed reviews.

If going to the trouble, and more importantly, the expense of changing over to LiFePo4 batteries, make sure your charger has a suitable LiFePo4 profile to get the best out of the batteries. Some battery suppliers/manufacturers state “drop in” replacement with inbuilt BMS, and whilst they will do the job, a properly designed system with the appropriate charger is better in the long run.

Also, if relying on Solar Panels for off grid charging, there is a good rule of thumb that states for every battery Amp you have, you need double the watts of Solar capacity. In simple terms, if you have a 100 amp battery, you need 200 watts of solar capacity etc. This applies equally to both LiFePo4 and LeadAcid (AGM) batteries.

Macca.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 09:54

Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 09:54
I see almost no relationship between battery capacity and solar capacity.
Recharge capacity (from whatever source) needs to exceed energy daily usage and daily energy usage has very little relationship to battery capacity.
Batteries provide energy when the charge source is absent or inadequate.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 09:01

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 09:01
Hi Pete,

Your comment regarding recharging capacity is very true. However, from what I understand, the reason the “experts” recommend the two times watts vs amps, is to ensure you can recharge your batteries to “full” capacity relatively quickly. Now, whilst I am not sure of their full reasoning, it makes sense that in limited sunlight, you would want to take advantage of charging as quickly as possible, to ensure your batteries reach full charge before losing the best available sunlight. “Making hay while the sun shines” so to speak.

Given that depending on where you are in the country and the time of year, you really only get around 6 hours of “optimum” sunlight for charging at the highest/quickest rate, it makes sense to want to charge quickly. Charging rate is dependent on having your solar panels at the optimal angle to the sun and “chasing” it. If, as with most caravans and motorhomes with fixed roof mounted panels, it is not possible to get the optimal angle to the sun, the more solar capacity you have the better.

Of course many people get away with less solar capacity than twice battery amps, but it does not take long for batteries to go “flat” if you are unable to get them up to full charge every time. I know that I would rather have my batteries back to full charge as soon as possible, instead of late in the day.

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Reply By: Rangiephil - Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 13:18

Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 13:18
My answer is "horses for courses"
If you want to run a microwave and hair dryer through a 12 volt inverter then you need the ability to output 200amps , so you need a very large very expensive lithium (LifePo4) battery or batteries. This is really a specialist operation to fit and commission for many people.
if you want to replace an AGM for small loads like lights and water pump with occasional TV use then a 100AH Lifepo4 battery would be fine .
I have a Voltx cheapy after reading independent reviews that they are actually 100AH as many are not as advertised. The maximum output which is determined by the cost and quality of the Battery Management System (BMS) is 50 amps charge rate and 50 amps discharge rate which is fine for my usage. I have a Renolgy 20 amp DC/DC charger from the car and a 240/12v 10 amp Lithium charger in the van. I also have a 200watt( supposedly) folding solar panel which can be used off grid.
I have yet to discharge the battery fully. After 3 days or so of lights and pump it is still at 13.25 volts which is about 80%. I have an isolation switch and watt/volt meter attached to the battery so I can see state of charge at any time and I switch off when transiting.
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Reply By: SCUBADOO - Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 16:45

Monday, Jun 13, 2022 at 16:45
I hope you receive some good advice for your enquiry.
Unfortunately I can't help with brands being on the other side of the ditch.
Choose wisely and please don't rush in. There is some cheap suspect cell quality boxes out there.

We installed our 12V 300Ah LiFePO4 battery 8 years ago and it is in use every day.

It still amuses me somewhat reading about the high costs involved. A few weeks away a year and it probably makes little sense but our entire setup - solar, wiring, controller, monitor, chargers, 255l fridge, inverters, battery etc. has cost us less than $10 a week to date and reducing.

Now lets compare that with our other ongoing weekly expenses. Vehicle maintenance, fuel, insurance, food, comms etc.
All but insignificant!


As an added bonus we have saved $8000+ on LPG costs since dumping the 3way and running sufficient solar and decent batteries.
Does that make the entire setup essentially free?
AnswerID: 640859

Follow Up By: Rangiephil - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 09:02

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 09:02
So a 9KG gas cylinder lasted you 1.4 weeks? Man that is a lot of gas.
My fridge will last about a month on a 9Kg cylinder , and I only use that if free camping, 240V at other times.
grandmother quote."I have told you a million times not to exaggerate"
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 09:21

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 09:21
Hi Rangiephil,

LPG usage can vary greatly depending on a number of things. If you are only running a small fridge in a cool dry climate, I dare say that you could get quite a lot more days out of a 9 or 8.5 Kg LPG bottle than what you are currently getting. If you have a large absorption fridge in a hot humid climate, and using the LPG for other things like cooking, and hot water, depending on how many showers you have, it could be a lot less. Many people on this and other forums have quoted between two and three weeks out of a 9 kg LPG bottle for off grid camping.

So as someone else has said elsewhere on this forum, horses for courses.

Macca,
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Follow Up By: SCUBADOO - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 14:26

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 14:26
@ Rangiephil

Yep!
The original Dometic 175l 3-way went through a 9kg cylinder every 10 days.
It now lasts 3 months. Cooking only.
Diesel air and water heating.


No exaggeration necessary.
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Reply By: Matt W13 - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 15:42

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2022 at 15:42
Renogy, 200Ah here.

I've got some Renogy gear in the Patrol and it's pretty good gear. Their people are contactable and they ship their product reasonably quickly.

It's hard to tell what you get from whom with batteries, anyone can pack any cells into any casing and put flashy names and stickers on it, but at least with this mob, they are contactable should anything go awry.

If I had a lazy $1200 I'd be getting one of these without hesitation.
AnswerID: 640870

Reply By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2022 at 22:09

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2022 at 22:09
Just stumbled on this video about LFPs being made by Big Wei Batteries in Brisbane.

Worth a bo peep if you're a prospective LFP buyer or just interested in what's in your black box . I recommend watching a few of Will Prowse's youtube videos on lithium batteries also if you want to learn a whole lot more.

BWB have some specials on their website atm. Specs look good, as does warranty and customer feed.back.

BWB LFP Batteries

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