Multiple Anderson circuits, really Question (yes another one)

Cheers Allan

Jayco dealer told us we need 2 plugs, it is wired to receive 2 anderson connections. I’ll add the wiring diagram jayco provided.

- A grey plug for the fridge, which is a 3 way gas/electric fridge
- And a red plug for dc charger/bms

Also happy to take any advice/plans ya may throw at me haha

This is the video I was planning to copy (somewhat)

OK, thanks. It is all clear to me now.
Although I have a circuit that requires only one cable, if the Jayco is already wired with two then it would be best to stick with that.
And yes, feed both Anderson plugs from a 100A solenoid relay via a 40A fuse for each line.
The solenoid relay can be activated from the vehicle ignition circuit if a convenient connection point can be found. Otherwise you can use a "voltage-sensing" solenoid relay which is self-actuating and requires no connection to the ignition.

Just keep in mind the fact you have bought a new van and if you deviate from the instructions by adding a relay, it could cause you to receive a "claim denied" should something not work as it should.
Both power supplies are through a fuse each and straight from the battery post or chassis according to the PDF.
Also, it only mentions 1 anderson and 1 12 pin plug with a smaller supply lead.

Cheers for the help!!!

-I did see that it says to use a VSR, but the ranger has a “smart alternator” which I’ve read can be temperamental with VSR’s. The video I linked shows how to link to the ignition circuit pretty easily! (And the relay route works out cheaper ;) haha

-I did also just realise that the PDF actually states that you can 2 circuits through 1 isolator relay (they’re referring to a VSR) as long as it’s big enough. Which is reassuring!!

-The dealer asked if the ranger has Anderson plugs installed, and when I said no, he provided me with the instructions, so fingers crossed, I’ll never run into any warranty problems!!! Haha

-Ok, I’ve just figured something out, which only makes sense to me after all the research I’ve done over the last few days, and now just read the Jayco wiring PDF again.

-Let’s go again haha….I now think I need to run 3 circuits off the 100amp relay
(1) - grey Anderson plug for fridge
(2) - red Anderson plug for dc charger
*both of these in 6b&s, with own 40mm amp fuse.
(3) a 5mm line to pin 8 (this line powers the ESC)
All 3 of these circuits will be grounded by running lines back to a point on the chassis at rear of vehicle.


I hope that mess of a reply all makes sense!!! Haha

If it was me I would have one anderson plug feeding the dc/dc and then have the fridge running off that. The 3 way fridges when running on 12 volt use a hell of a lot of power compared to the 12 volt compressor types. 200 +a/h lithium at least is what I would have in van. No need for 2 anderson plugs in my opinion. Keep it simple. Also means when parked up you dont have to worry about fridge pulling power from start battery.

-bigfish- the van comes with 2 Anderson plugs ready to go, so just gonna go with multiple ando’s on the tow vehicle…but make sure there through a relay to avoid draining starter battery

Yes Greenso, your reply above makes sense to me. I think you have got it by the "short-and-curleys".
And I always prefer an ignition-controlled relay over a VSR. More positive and reliable.
Just be sure to purchase a good quality solenoid….. there are some unreliable cheapies on the market.

Cheers for the help Allan, it’s been a good learning curve, trying to wrap my head around it all
And it’s also been reassuring to be able to ask for a bit of help here.

One more thing on the relay, when would I be running too much through it?
I’m assuming the fridge, charger and esc are fine to run through 100amps, but when would the relay need to be upgraded??

A 100A rated relay should be more than adequate for your setup. Cannot imagine any need to upgrade it.

Cheers for all the help Allan.

Now to order/wait for all the parts to get delivered, and have a crack at install, and hopefully neatly haha

Most of the install is pretty obvious…… positioning of the cable and components etc. Probably the most important thing to consider it the quality of the termination lugs and Anderson contacts. Beg, borrow or steal a good quality crimp tool or cosy up to a mate who has one. A weak crimp will bring headaches….. and maybe a fire!

Videos I’ve been watching “flood solder” the terminal lugs and Anderson contacts….gonna give that a go!!

OK. But be very careful to not get any solder on the contact faces of the Anderson pins.

Hi Allan, just a side question if I may, is your preference soldered or crimped Anderson connections?
William

Hi William,
My preference is for crimped terminations. Reasons?….. well crimping became the industry standard some years ago for a number of reasons. It is well established that a properly made crimp is more reliable than a soldered termination. Even though that may be hard to believe, it is statistically supportable. Given the correct lug and cable size and the correct tooling it is almost impossible to perform a poor joint. Soldering on the other hand has many opportunities too. execute a poor joint. However, in the hands of expert operators there would be little difference between them. And of course economics dictate a preference for crimping.
In the case of soldering, there is also a tendency for the copper wires to fracture at the point where the copper leaves the solder mass when subject to long-term vibration. This does not happen with crimping. But please don't ask me to explain the physics behind that…. it is a record of statistics.
But I consider that it is equally easy to produce a poor crimp as a soldered one if unskilled or careless.

Finally, and in my case, I have invested in appropriate crimping tooling so it is convenient to crimp. That is not to say that I am unprepared to solder if I find that I do not readily have the appropriate matching wire/lug size on hand. As an old hand, I can do a solder job with ease and confidence.

"My preference is for crimped terminations. Reasons?….. well crimping became the industry standard some years ago for a number of reasons. "

I did a NASSA soldering course with the RAAF instructors at Londonderry in the early 70s. The instructors said that soldering was second choice to crimping. The men who went to the moon went in craft with crimped joints rather than soldered ones. Nothing much has changed over the last 50 years.

Hi Allan,

Can I ask what “brand” of crimping tool you use please?

Macca.

I've been using this type for many years and have done 100,s of crimps. Does a super tight crimp and adjustable dies for different size cable lugs. Bloody cheap as well...but actually works well. A lot stronger than the majority of hand crimping tools.

CRIMP TOOL

Dunno Macca, it isn't marked with a brand name and I have had it for yonks. Just a simple lever action type.
But the one that Bigfish references looks good. And probably costs less than what I paid way back when.

A Ranger running a solenoid and nobody has pointed out the one, possibly two, thing that needs to be done to stop frying the vehicle electronics.

“IvanTheTerrible posted:
A Ranger running a solenoid and nobody has pointed out the one, possibly two, thing that needs to be done to stop frying the vehicle electronics.”

What things are ya talking about?? The last thing I want to do is fry the missus new truck!!! Haha

That's why you don't ask questions and expect amateurs to correctly answer. If you don't know what you are doing then take it to a professional. I have already had to fix one Ranger that was fried this year.

Cheers for the help :)

Are you ok Ivan.? As you are a self confessed professional what is the issue with the Ranger?

He is possibly talking about placing a diode across the coil of the solenoid to arrest any voltage spikes.
But that could be considered as standard practice on all relays on modern vehicles.
In answering the OP's question, is it appropriate to issue instructions on each and every detail of how to perform auto electrics? After all, this is a forum, not a tutorial.
C'mon Ivan, don't be shy, what are your words of wisdom?

I would have though spiking the electronics would be more appropriate term if that was the issue plus the VSR is across the battery as is the starter solenoid and unless things have changed recently starter solenoids don't have spike suppression. Modern auto electrics are fairly bulletproof with regards to spikes on the battery, different story to driver circuits though such as CPU outputs that operate headlight relays, wiper relays etc, they may or may not have spike suppression built in so always a very good idea to use a suppressed relay when adding on to those not to mention overloading them.

I would have though spiking the electronics would be more appropriate term if that was the issue plus the VSR is across the battery as is the starter solenoid and unless things have changed recently starter solenoids don't have spike suppression. Modern auto electrics are fairly bulletproof with regards to spikes on the battery, different story to driver circuits though such as CPU outputs that operate headlight relays, wiper relays etc, they may or may not have spike suppression built in so always a very good idea to use a suppressed relay when adding on to those not to mention overloading them.

If using a ignition switched relay than a suppressed unit plus due care regarding what circuit your connecting to would be a wise precaution.

.
"Modern auto electrics are fairly bulletproof with regards to spikes"……………… Except Rangers maybe?

Early model Rangers based on the mazda platform would have been fairly robust, in those you could also have the smart charge turned off by anyone with a suitable scanner reader. Now they have seperated from Mazda who knows.

Peter D, a small (pedantic) correction. The moon visit craft used wire-wrap terminations.

By a stretch you could classify them as crimp I guess ...

Many people would not have knowledge of "wire wrapping" technique for electrical connections.
A solid (not stranded) wire is multiply wrapped around a square metal post with sharp corners. When performed with properly designed tooling at the right tension, the sharp corners of the post bite into the wire and create a 'cold weld'. It becomes a very reliable electrical connection and is fast to perform. Not used for high currents but ideal for communication and instrumentation applications.

I’ve seen a lot which are only fused at the battery/before the relay….but also seen/read alot which fuse before and after, seems like most people think better safe then sorry with this stuff haha

If the solenoid relay is close to the battery then there is only need for fusing on the downside of it. Before & after is un-necessary and only adds complexity
Personally, as I said above, I would fuse each downstream line with a 40A fuse. It is not to "protect the devices on the end of the cable"….. In electrical engineering it is called "discrimination" and is good practice. A fuse costs very little.

some VSR's are set to 12.7, your alt may supply 12.5 when hot, you dont need one anyway, you need a simple relay to cut power.
I have a vitron voltage sensing relay down the back with my lithium setup under bonnet. It is adjustable via an app, costs heaps and not needed in your situation.
Jaycar do 60, 100, 150, 200 relays, buy a big one that can take underbonney heat, or fuse under bonnet and run starter cable to place relay in a cooler place.
A member on here sells good stuff too, google ABR sidewinder, he is also on ebay.
KISS is the best option, run larger cable to larger relay to 2 andersons. ganged down the back, a question from me now, will you have the ability to run the fridge on 12 volts from the camper battery if you need to go into town for gas?
Andrew

Leigh, at least with a fuse in each load line you'll know which is the culprit if a fuse does pop.

You can do it that way if you like but having two fuses in series can be problematic esecially if they have the same rating, you can get one blowing, and the othe being weakened which then blows some way down the track or if fractured the can work one minute then not the next etc. Plus the more connections the more resistance.

I hope that "having two fuses in series" wasn't aimed at my response, as I said nothing of the kind.

In any case, there is no proposition to place "two fuses in series". … Where did that come from??

The OP indicate he intended to install a circuit breaker before the vsr and then a fuse in each of the circuits after the circuit breaker. All the wiring is to be 6B&S. To me your just adding more potential failure points and joint resistane. The one breaker before the VSR preferable as close as possible to the battery is all he needs.

Your'e right Leigh, so he did. And I told him it was un-necessary if the relay was close to the battery.
It was your expression of "fuses in series" that threw me.

Agree, if your going to run two cables from the VSR to two anderson plugs side by side I would only be running one cable. I would also be using a good VSR with FET switching, virtual 0 insertion loss and very reliable. If you get a programmable one you can set cutin cutout voltages and time delays before switching and you don't have to go looking for a switched ignition source and spicing into wiring etc.

Yeah!!! It’s definitely got a lot more attention then I thought it would….also shows that there is more then one way to skin a cat….doesn’t mean there all right though does it ;)