Carrying spare fuel(the best way)

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 09:25
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If I had to do a long trip and had to carry extra fuel(petrol) It would stink out the car.
Whenever I get fuel for our mower I use a plastic jerry can and it will bloat out something feirce unless I unscrew the little breather plug. Then it stinks out the shed. Now if I were to carry that fuel in the car we would all be sick in no time.

How have you carried your spare fuel for your car. my car uses unleaded fuel.

what is the best way for those of us who have to carry it inside the vehicle.

Are the metal jerry cans better than the plastic?

Is diesel easier to carry than Unleaded?

I would like to be able to carry 4 spare jerry cans so I dont have to worry about planning the day around the amount of fuel in my tank especially seeing how I wish to spend a full day driving over loose sand.

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)

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Reply By: Magnus - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 09:43

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 09:43
Hi Sparkie,

Have often carried extra fuel for long trips, up to 6 jerry cans full.

Always Steel, ex defence force jerry cans with replaced seals if needed.

Always outside the vehicle either in trailer or on top.

Never any problems. Longest trip was 12 weeks with 4 full jerrys on top up the Tanami and the Bungle Bungles in 1987. No probs.

Need to follow usual precautions re strapping down and load checking of course as over that time things can work loose.

Cheers

Magnus

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Follow Up By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:38

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:38
Thanks Magnus,
looks like more saving up for the roofracks and cage.:-(

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)

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Reply By: Member - Roachie SA- Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:06

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:06
Sparkie,
Magnus is dead right. You should carry extra fuel outside the vehicle, especially if it's petrol.
I've fitted a long range tank and run diesel, so economy is a bit better than petrol.
I'm not sure i read Magnus' comments correctly; but he gave me the impression he carted his extra fuel everywhere on that trip. I would not recommend that either. IMHO you'd be better off taking empty gerry cans and only fill them at the last fuel stop before heading off on a long stretch where buying fuel will be a problem. That way you are not carrying around an extra 80kilo's or so of dead weight. The exception to this could be, for example, filling up at Port Augusta b4 heading up the Stuart Hwy. The extra jerrys could save you having to buy fuel at small servo's where petrol is REAL expensive. As an example, a mate of mine recently went up to Darwin. Most fuel was priced at between $1.00 and $1.10 (diesel). He was talking to a bloke who'd decided to just fill up where ever he had to......he paid $1.37 at Pimba, just near Woomera. If he'd filled up at Port Augusta, even without jerry cans, he could have got to Coober Pedy where fuel was MUCH cheaper.
Roof racks at a pinch (not desired because of centre-of-gravity issues), or on a trailer.
Just my 3 cents worth.
Good luck
AnswerID: 67560

Follow Up By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 11:35

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 11:35
Thanks Roachie.
I am only asking as I want to spend a big day in sand near where I live.I would hate to be the party pooper who has to leave because his fuel is running low.
Roof racks with basket seems my best option as I dont have a CT and a normal trailer will restrict me too much.

I would probably not carry more than 3 jerry cans if I had them on top.

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)
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Follow Up By: Magnus - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 11:51

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 11:51
Roachie is right. I carried them full the whole way until I got to Rabbit Flat store and i jacked up at the price of the petrol. $1.20 in 1987. So used 2 cans and went to Bungle Bungles and of course ran short of fuel in there. This was despite 130 lites in the tanks (2). So had to cut short our stay there, limp out of the Bungles in 2 wheel drive only to save fuel and made it to the servo on the highway with empty Jerries and about 5 litres in the tanks.

Filled all up. Proceeded home. Got lazy on the last day and didn't stop to refill. Ran out literally in sight of home. Could see the house even. Had to get jerrys down from roof etc. Was not a happy chappie I can tell you.

Moral. Do not pass servos. Always carry fuel where u may need it.

Agree with Roachie. Carrying full jerries on the main highway was not required and in hindsight a bit silly. But then I was also a lot younger in 1987. Only 46 years old then. Know a bit more now.

Enjoy your day in the sand. If only for a day, perhaps u could carry the fuel inside in metal jerries and get it out of the vehicle at your base point and only use if needed.

Depends how far u have to go to get to the fun part and how well your cans are sealed and how well you can secure them inside the car.

Worth a thought. Or can someone else carry them for you.

That way you can make decisions about roof racks etc at liesure and get the right one for your currnet and future needs.

As i said, Have fun in the sand

Cheers

Magnus
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Follow Up By: Member - AndrewPatrol - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:13

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:13
Hey Sparkie, as I read it, it sounds like you're going to play in the sand dunes or the beach, if so I'd think very seriously about NOT carrying your extra fuel on top as the likely hood of you tipping is a lot higher in the sand. The sand requires a lot of momentum to keep moving and you have to be prepared to get off line and sideways sometimes, especially dowwn the face of a dune. Check out the bladders available from yacht suppliers, they have a double skin and you can tie them down, they also have enough flexibility to allow for expansion. When empty then put it on the roof rack.
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Follow Up By: Joe - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:15

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:15
Roachie and others...
Can metal or plastic jerry can travel flat on their side to keep the centre of gravity down?.
Or do you know if low slung,alternative type cans are available.
Thanks
Joe
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Follow Up By: Magnus - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:33

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:33
Joe,

The metal ones will travel any way you can tie them down. Just make sure the seals are good. I usually lay them flat with the pouring spout upwards. Less chance of doing any damage to them when manhandling them up and down on the roof racks etc

Cheers
Magnus
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie SA- Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:46

Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:46
Joe,
I've never tried carrying them any way other than upright or on their edge (so that the filler is still at the "top" so to speak).
I only have 2 of the black plastic ones these days and don't use them in any case.
I reckon if was planning on laying them on their sides, I'd be trying it at home beforehand.....fill them up and lay them out in the shed on a piece of carpet or similar and see if the seals are good enough to prevent any leaking. This would be best done in hot weather to at least try to simulate real world conditions in or on a vehicle (minus the corrogations/vibrations of course).
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Reply By: Member - Wim (Bris) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:23

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 10:23
Sparkie.
This is not a cheap option but, I have the same "range" problem with my Jack even with four jerry cans.
I replaced the 85ltr tank with 140ltr. Like I say not cheap but problem solved for now. Still need MORE range.

regards
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Follow Up By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 11:47

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 11:47
Thanks Wim

long range tank would set me back too much in one hit at this stage.
Maybe I can find one second hand?
But for now roofrack is all I can afford to do.At least I can use it for other things as well.

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 15:12

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 15:12
Hi Wim,

What brand tank did you get and have you had any hassles with it?
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Follow Up By: Member - Wim (Bris) - Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 07:06

Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 07:06
Savvas.
I had a Browb & Davis 140 ltr tank installed by ABR. No problems so far.

Regards
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Reply By: pmacks - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 13:44

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 13:44
sparkie,
we have just completed an extended outback trip and carried 3 jerry cans of petrol that we stored inside the vehicle, daytime temps were in the high 30's and to overcome the bloating and smell from the plastic ( fuel approved ) containers we wrapped each in a damp towel. This stopped any problems, we use the black plastic fuel approved containers as they are much easier to decant from that the metal ones, we also do not like the idea of carrying extra fuel on the roof due to the centre of gravity issue.
also a damp towel wrapped around the esky keeps your ice longer and the longer the ice stays the longer your beer stays cold
enjoy your day
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Reply By: Member Colin - NSW Bungendore - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 14:57

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 14:57
I have just completed a trip into the Calvert Ra and back (800 km return from Carnegie Stn - $1.50/Lt) - and in a Subaru, you don't have the option of fitting an extra tank (although I am looking at fitting a 'bag' in the spare wheel well) so we have always carried at least 3 steel 'army' jerry cans inside the car for these longer CSR type trips. Leaks and smell has never been a problem - we fill the cans with a measured 20 Lt and sit them in the sun for a few days before the trip to check for leaks and smell. The seals are replaced if needed.
We fit a false floor to replace the rear seats and the jerrys are strapped down and seperated with old carpet to stop any rubbing. We use a good quality funnel to pour the fuel into the tank - one which will collect water and dirt.
Carrying anything heavy on a roof rack is a no-no!

So carrying fuel inside the car is not the best option but it can be done, and saftely.
AnswerID: 67581

Reply By: Diesel Do - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 17:27

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 17:27
Hi All,

Previous replies seem to have covered all the options for Sparkie, and I can't think of anything to add, but I've got the same problem and have an idea to overcome it. I'd appreciate your advice - is it looney, dangerous etc..

I traded my td GU on a Xtrail. (don't want to start a debate about pros and cons of that :-)) Now I don't have anywhere near the range that I use to - no surprise. I do tow a boat however, and it has a 95ltr inbuilt fuel tank. My thought is to fill the boat at (say) Pt augusta, and then use an electric fuel pump fitted in the boat and powered from the boat battery to transfer fuel from the boat to the car tank by the side of the road whenever it's needed. Passing the fuel through the boats fuel filter on the way.

Should get me to Alice easily.

Seems to make sense to me, but maybe there'd be a grounding/ESD problem or somesuch that might end up blowing it all sky high.

Any thoughts?

Regards,
AnswerID: 67601

Follow Up By: Magnus - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:31

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:31
Diesel Do

You going water sking in the Todd or Lake Eyre. Just curious is all.

Apart from that should work as long as you empty the tank in boat so it does not slosh around and cause balance problems!

Emptying with an electric pump is a bit scary. Need to be very sure there are no stray sparks etc.

Cheers

Magnus

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Follow Up By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:44

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:44
Magnus, as far as I know all boat fuel tanks(underfloor) have baffles in them for that very reason.

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)

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Follow Up By: Diesel Do - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:56

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:56
Magnus,

Well I might have a go if I can cut the leg holes in the bottom...

But really just camping and fishing around the rivers across the Top End. You're comment about the fuel pump is thes ame thing that I'm wondering about.. Is it safe, what to be careful of, do I need to run an earth wire between the boat and the car chassis when refuelling - that kind of thing.

Sparkie is right. I think they're the same kind of baffles used in car fuel tanks. But I will have to be watching the change in weight distribution in the boat as the fuel load lessens - tanks at the rear of the boat. Taking 85kg out will certainly make some difference to tow characteristics. Good thought.

But will it blow up?

Regards,
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Follow Up By: Magnus - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:22

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:22
Diesel Do,

Well the baffle thingy seems to fix the sloshing round problem.

I take it the boat is a tinnie so the 85kg out will certainly affect the towing characteristics but can probably be fixed by moving some of the rest of the boat gear around a bit. Sort of like re-balancing a trailer when it is not loaded right.

I thought that electric fuel pumps and petrol were fairly common combinations. If so, there are no technical reasons why it won't work.

Petrol is fairly volatile and is safest to handle in cool conditions, like early morning. Transferring fuel on the side of the road in the middle of the day is scary stuff with all the heat generated fumes etc. If I recall rightly it is the vapoour that burns rather than the fuel.

As an experiment try throwing a lighted cigarette in a pool of cold petrol on the ground early one morning. Bet the fag goes out. In the middle of a hot day on hot roadway it is a different story.

So, as I read it, you won't blow up unless you ignite some petrol vapour . So fuel transfer in cool to cold conditions with good electric connections and properly shielded electric motor etc etc you should be OK.

But hey, need some more input from wiser heads than mine I think, just to confirm or otherwise.

But is your range so poor you can't make servo to servo.

Also, what about jerry cans in the boat. Hell of a lot simpler. Just chain them in and cover them up. Fill the jerries instead of the boat tank. About the same weight, and you definitely should not blow up pouring from a jerry can in the right conditions. The cool etc etc

In any case, hope you catch some fish and generally have a good time. Watch out for the crocs.

Cheers

magnus
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Follow Up By: Moz - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 23:18

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 23:18
Diesel Do,
One concern I might have is static electricity.
Presumably you will be pumping from the back of the
boat which could be over 20ft.
Fluid moving over this distance could produce an amount
of static to produce a spark at the nozzle.
You should be able to counter-act the problem by contacting
the hose with the vehicle away from the filler point before filling.
I prefer the jerrys stowed in the boat idea myself.
Just my opinion.

Cheers
Moz
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Follow Up By: Member - Wim (Bris) - Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 10:13

Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 10:13
Diesel Do

As Moz detailed, static is a major problem.
Please ensure you earth the boat, car and yourself prior to transfering fuel.
The charred look is not good.

reagrds
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Reply By: Member - Jack - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 18:25

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 18:25
Sparkie:
I am considering a fuel bladder for my next long-ish trip.
It may be a solution. Click here for the link
Still doing the research on it, but they seem fine.
Cheers
jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Follow Up By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:41

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 19:41
Nice idea but it seems only usable for diesel and mine uses unleaded.

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:02

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:02
ask willem!

its illegal to carry petrol jerrys inside the car
AnswerID: 67647

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:11

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:11
I'm still yet to see a jerry camera :)
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Follow Up By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:30

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:30
I'd love to but with all the CRAP flowing he might not be in a good mood ;-)

Also I did not know it was Illegal. Thanks for the heads up.

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:49

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:49
Ray.. Im disappointed..

you never heard of a Voigtländer ?? One of the original Jerry Made Cameras...
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:50

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:50
Voigtländer
The original Voigtländer company was founded in 1756 as a maker of scientific instruments. Peter Wilhelm Friedrich Voigtländer, the grandson of the founder, helped develop the first mathematically computed lens (f/3.7!) in 1840, and also designed an equally incredible camera to use the lens. Camera production was a major part of the business for more than a century. Zeiss bought Voigtländer in 1956, and the production of Zeiss Ikon Voigtländer cameras ended with the demise of the Zeiss camera business in 1972. In 1997, Ringfoto GmbH acquired rights to Voigtländer and relaunched the company. They continue to market the Voigtländer Bessa-L and Bessa-RF, excellent cameras with outstanding optics certain to be sought-after collectibles in the future.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 21:34

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 21:34
Oh ok!.... smarty pants
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Reply By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:37

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:37
Thanks for all the info I didn't expect such a response but I daresay putting on roof racks with a basket to carry the fuel and then leaving it at the group site before I go sand driving looks like my best option. it will mean setting up some sort of camp site for the day but I am sure some of the Mums with childeren will be more than happy to watch the site for us. Kids prefer playing in sand to jolting around in 4WD(I hope).

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:50

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:50
Sparkie mate, for more entertainment read thread 11923...are jerry cans legal
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Follow Up By: Martyn (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:53

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:53
Sparkie,
When you put the fuel in the basket make sure the basket frame is strong enough to take the weight of the jerry's full of fuel. Some of these baskets can be quite light weight. Sudden changes of direction can create quite a bit of force, I would hate you to brake suddenly and end up with three jerry can on your bonnet, mind you that saves you having to get them down I suppose. Petrol has a lower flash point so it will always "gas up" more than diesel, plus it's a tad more volatile especially high octane unleaded fuel.
Keep the shiny side up

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Reply By: Bitsumishin - Mike A (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:51

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 20:51
You mentioned that a long range tank was too expensive but if you are buying roof racks and a basket strong enough to carry 4 Jerry cans plus the cost of the 4 Gerry Cans (because you don't have the metal ones now), my guess is you are up for around $500-+ anyway. Maybe LR tanks are not so far off the mark afterall and would certainly be a lot safer for at least some of these reasons:
Car would be top heavy
Fuel is more easily stolen from Jerry Cans
Chance Jerry's could work loose & fall off
Have you ever tried lifting 25 Kilos over your head & then across a roofrack? Hope your back is strong.
Have you ever tried lifting a Jerry Can off a roof thats been sitting in 40 degree heat all day with your bare hands?
AnswerID: 67664

Follow Up By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:23

Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:23
I see your point but if I buy roof racks I can use it for other stuff as well(killing two birds with one stone)

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)
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Reply By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 21:18

Tuesday, Jul 13, 2004 at 21:18
I think I'd rather carry petrol inside the vehicle than outside. Petrol stinks so much that any hint of a leak or faulty seals would soon draw my attention, better that than have it all leak out and a empty jerry. I dare say that gallizons of litres must have been transported inside vehicles, how many are blowing up?
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Reply By: Member - Woodsy - Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:28

Wednesday, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:28
Hi Sparkie,

A cupla years ago I travelled the Connir Sue and carried 7 jerries for my GQ 3.0 petrol Patrol. I removed the rear seats (not the dickie seats, they were long gone) and made a steel frame which held 7 jerries firmly with a strap acroos the top. The frame was bolted down to existing seat bolt holes etc.

Very stable. The jerries didn't move or leak and there was no smell as I made sure the seals were OK. Just chucked all of the soft gear on top of the jerries.

Weight was low down so GQ was quite stable.

Ended up with 3 jerries petrol left when we got to the Nullabor Hwy but better some over then run out miles away from anywhere.

As for being illegal, I dunno. Maybe I should check but I reckon 7 jerries inside is far safer then 7 jerries on the roof.

BTW. I still have the frame & fixings if any GQ owner wants it.
Happy 4 wheeling

Woodsy

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