Engel Fridge help
Submitted: Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 00:13
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nestor m
Good afternoon, I am trying to repair a Engel Fridge circuit board, in my case the compressor does not turn on, the fuses are good, could someone please tell me if the output voltage to the compressor is reversible or are they simply 12v pulses with a specific frequency?
Reply By: RMD - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 08:29
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 08:29
The voltage should be a sine wave around 20V ac value. It moves the solenoid piston by creating a magnetic pulse through a cylindrical coil to, magnetically drive the piston shaft magnet back and
forth. Frequency 50HZ or close to.
From memory the resistance of the so called MOTOR, which it doesn't have, is approx 2.7 Ohms, does vary between models.
AnswerID:
644828
Reply By: nestor m - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 09:28
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 09:28
thank you so much. Will it be possible to turn on the compressor with a 20v 60hz AC power supply?
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644829
Follow Up By: RMD - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 11:55
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 11:55
From info supplied by Allan B on here in relation to frequency, I agree with him, the Engel solenoid system is probably tuned to operate optimally at 50 HZ, where 60HZ may not be as effective. I have some elec background but not an engineer of elec so cannot say what the effectiveness of 60HZ would be. Probably as heat loss inside the solenoid unit I suspect. The frequency the solenoid can operate at most likely governs the HZ , hence 50HZ .
I have run one on 50Hz 18V ac transformer but it does get hotter than the normal system runs it.
I suspect the Engel system delivers a sine wave of sorts but clips the wave form so as not to deliver more heat energy to the coil after the solenoid and gas pumping action has occurred. Just my opinion here.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 12:06
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 12:06
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Double-up Post Removed Rule .
Forum Moderation Team
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Reply By: kgarn - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 10:21
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 10:21
Try this link for some information re the engel.
Engel Info
Ken
AnswerID:
644830
Reply By: nestor m - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 12:42
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 12:42
I agree, in the files that colleague kgarn shares
I can see that the wave is very similar to a square wave, I think the function of the electronic circuit is to generate a square wave instead of a pure sine wave.
AnswerID:
644831
Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 16:50
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 16:50
The "electronic circuit" generates a square wave because it is the simplest form to produce from an inverter circuit. I think it likely that the Engel solenoid motor would be equally happy with either sine or square.
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Reply By: Kazza055 - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 16:30
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 16:30
The far right.
About 2-3 years ago I was trying to fix my 40L Engel and someone suggest I try a Jaycar 12-0-12 5A transformer part number MM2014 and drive the pump using the 2 12V giving 24VAC.
It ran the pump but the fridge still did not work so I sold it not working for $150 and invested that money to buy a 60L Brass Monkey. I was so impressed I went back and got a 50L as
well which both get used 24-7.
AnswerID:
644835
Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 17:05
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 17:05
.
Hi Kazza,
The Engel motor is designed for 14-18 volts so 24vac may have been a bit too high. Although, if the fridge had lost its refrigerant there would have been little mechanical load and hence reduced electrical current.
Anyway, you probably made a wise choice with the Brass Monkey purchase. Jaycar products are reliably of good quality and I do not see review complaints of the Brass Monkey or its siblings with other names.
FollowupID:
924991
Follow Up By: Kazza055 - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 17:51
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 17:51
By running the pump on the transformer completely bypassed all the control circuitry so proved that the refrigerator was not working.
The BMs have Bluetooth so I can
check them on my mobile.
Jaycar are all over Australia so warranty is a no brainer. The Engel cost me $1,200 for 40L, 2 x BMs was less than that for 110L.
FollowupID:
924992
Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 16:46
Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 16:46
.
Hi Nestor,
The Engel's Sawafuji solenoid motor's drive arrangement has changed over the years.
When supplied from a 12vdc source, the supply is always inverted to a square wave of 14-18 volts and a frequency of about 50 Hz. However, when driven from the mains, the early models applied that directly to a winding of the inverter transformer then on to the motor whereas the later models applied the mains to a separate mains transformer and rectifier circuit whose dc output went to the inverter circuit to produce the 14-18vac feed to the motor coil. So in all cases the voltage applied to the motor coil reverses at 50Hz.
So based on that, you probably could apply 12v 50Hz to the motor coil and successfully drive the motor, although I have never actually tried it. It should do no harm to try it but be sure that you apply the nominal 14-18vdc to the motor only and not allow it to feed into the electronics.
And whatever you do, especially if you are not fully trained in electrics, be bloody careful to avoid electric shock.
p.s. I have no knowledge of why Engel made those design decisions but maybe it was because the motor operates as a *resonant frequency device* and it will be most efficient when driven by an electrical source of its design resonant frequency. The Engel fridges were being marketed into countries using primarily 50 or 60 Hz and the later design could accept those frequencies whilst maintaining 50Hz to the motor. Interestingly, Japan is divided into two zones that have mains frequencies of 50Hz and 60Hz respectively although I don't know if that is of significance to Engel's design choices.
And you may be interested in reading more in an earlier
Forum Thread 146267.
(here).
AnswerID:
644836
Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Dec 05, 2023 at 12:09
Tuesday, Dec 05, 2023 at 12:09
Allan
If needing to, wanting to or having to, run an ENGEL compressor on a18V sine wave source, in your opinion, would it be wiser to supply a half wave rectifed signal to the compressor so there is no negative, below the 0 line aspect of power to the coil and therefore reducing the heat developed in the actuating coil?
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Dec 05, 2023 at 14:49
Tuesday, Dec 05, 2023 at 14:49
Hi RMD,
I would expect the Engel Sawafuji solenoid motor to run satisfactorily on a 14-18vdc sine supply. The overheating you experienced may have been from a cause other than a sine wave. The early models did pass a sine wave supply to the motor via a transformer.
The heat produced in the motor coil is the result of a number of factors and I would not hope to be able to valuate them or contemplate its relationship to the waveform. It is complex.
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