Early Planning

Submitted: Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 12:58
ThreadID: 146597 Views:1484 Replies:4 FollowUps:17
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Hello fellow adventurers,
I'm doing some early planning for a trip which embraces going from Hillston NSW through to Mungo NP via Willandra NP. The question is not road conditions nor Park Closures but GPS reception. Rather than assume I'd thought I'd ask ? After crossing the Simpson several times where both GPS were fine there has been more than a few trips where they both were total bat shyte. I run two GPS's one std Toyota the second a big Garmin.

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - DW Lennox Head(NSW) - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 14:28

Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 14:28
The GPS units require signal from the open sky.
I have only ever had issues where the GPS unit was on the dash and overheated.
If you are in the open and the unit antenna has un impeded access to the sky, you should have no problems.
Cheers
Duncan
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Follow Up By: Michael M25 - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 15:16

Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 15:16
Thanks Duncan,

Has a GPS ever taken you to the wrong location with locals laughing as you tell them the story ?

Cheers

Mike
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 23:16

Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 23:16
Yes Mike, however it would not be the GPS side of your navigator that did that to you. It would have been bum data being loaded into the navigation side of the device that did it to you. Or to put it another way, it would not have been the signals from space that did it to you, it would have been the mob that built the navigation system.

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Follow Up By: Michael M25 - Sunday, Dec 03, 2023 at 08:04

Sunday, Dec 03, 2023 at 08:04
Thanks Peter,

A GPS upgrade appears to be the solution. My Garmin has been lapped by technology.

Hema seems to be getting a good wrap.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 06:44

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 06:44
Michael

Hema make great maps. But their electronic products are buggy and laggy.

Don't get any electronic app or hardware from Hema. I have thrown away every product in frustration.

IMHO the best solution is to get Memory Map. It's a free app on your phone or tablet or PC ( I shoud say and as you use it on all).

You buy the maps for $100 and own them forever unlike Hema and many apps.

The main thing it wont do is route. But you can offline down load Google maps for that. There is nothing better for off line routing than Google maps, and free.

Another advantage of a PC or tablet app is that they use up to 5 or more satellite providers. GPS ( US) as well as GLONASS, BeiDou, and Galileo satellites. Also newer devices ( in the last 2 - 3 years may support QZSS and other systems which increase accuracy to 10 cm or so.
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Follow Up By: Michael M25 - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 07:15

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 07:15
Thanks Tony,

From my initial research the level of critical reviews of the Hema GPS is of concern.

I will look further into your suggestion as an upgrade of the old Garmin is due.

Cheers

Mike
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Follow Up By: Briste - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:12

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:12
Another vote for Memory Maps for All with the HEMA maps on a tablet. But not on their own. I use that combination in conjunction with ExplorOZ traveller, because EOT is vector based and so you can zoom in for fine detail. That doesn't really work for MM/H, but they do give a better view of the big picture when you zoom out, and you're less likely to try to follow a track that either isn't there or is not public.

I'm not so sure I'd give Google Maps such a big rap when you start to get off the beaten track. It's generally brilliant in cities, and quite good on main country roads, but there are plenty of stories of people who have been led astray by it in the bush.
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Follow Up By: Stephen L (Clare) SA - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:32

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:32
Mike and Boobook

Have you used the new model HEMA HX2?

They are brilliant.

They just recently had a vey big update that included more detailed map updates…..and it’s free

There is talk of a new HX3 but not sure when it will be released.
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Follow Up By: Michael M25 - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 13:30

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 13:30
Hi Steve,

I've found mixed messages for the HX2 some love it some don't.
I contacted a mate who has both the HX1 and purchased an HX2. He prefers his HX1.

The HX3 may gain greater consensus
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Follow Up By: Stephen L (Clare) SA - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 14:16

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 14:16
Hi Mike

Have both, plus the old HN7.

Pros and cons for both, the HN7 you can add your own topo maps but the new HX2 mapping is far superior to the HX1 which I do not use anymore.

It must be noted that HEMA is the only Australian company that actually does field checking all over Australia on an ongoing basis.

Some will argue that other mapping systems show more roads…..yes some do but there is a very big reason why HEMA do ongoing field surveys…..to keep their maps up to date, and any track shown on any HEMA map or navigator can legally be driven on.


Cheers and Safe Travels

Stephen
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 19:10

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 19:10
" any track shown on any HEMA map or navigator can legally be driven on."
That is certainly not true.
For instance, you will need permission to drive on any road in APY lands and you will NOT get that permission.
Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Stephen L (Clare) SA - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 21:36

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 21:36
Peter

You said this “ For instance, you will need permission to drive on any road in APY lands and you will NOT get that permission.”

Not sure you came up with the “NOT” bit, we have driven all through there, from the Stuart Highway and past Kalka and up to Giles with permits, knew Aboriginal people in the Communities and permit was issued as “Family Visit” even though they were not family…lol

Those that have been fortunate to go through there will testify it is unreal country.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Dec 05, 2023 at 06:27

Tuesday, Dec 05, 2023 at 06:27
Stephen.

I certainly respect your remote travels and navigation skills. In fact, one of the best parts of EO is the sharing of tracks, and your tracks in some remote parts of Australia have been invaluable to me for planning. For that, I thank you,

But as to your Hema reccomendaiton. I'm afraid I can't even trust you. I have bought so many electronic products from Hema that have been poorly supported and a waste of money. Having been bitten 3 times, I can not bring myself to throw more money at them.

Hema Maps, on the other hand, on Ozi or Memory Map, are excellent and worth paying money for.

Oh, and thanks for the information on the APY lands. It was one of the best, most interesting trips I've done. I hope it opens up one day. ( or maybe not!)

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Dec 05, 2023 at 06:34

Tuesday, Dec 05, 2023 at 06:34
Bristie, give Google Maps another try. It certainly used to be the case that it was incomplete and unreliable. However over the last years they have improved it.

Use it alongside a proper raster map like Hema for sure. But I have downloaded it and used it in offline mode, and it has worked flawlessly on several trips that surprised me with no coverage.

I always make a habit of downloading the remote areas I will travel into my phone and tablet now.

Still my Memory Map, usually with hema maps is the trusted source of truth.
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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 14:47

Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 14:47
The GPS satellites fly around the Earth at a fixed altitude. Therefore, the signal is the same everywhere at sea level. There is a very small signal increase as you gain altitude but as the satellites orbit at an altitude of 21,000 km, you have to fly at a very high altitude to make any noticeable difference in signal strength. See GPS Satellite Power Output.

If you are travelling in open county with few or no trees, you should not experience any change in the signals you receive from any of the birds. If you are travelling in very hilly country or where there is significant tree coverage then you may experience difficulties. When you have a high cliff beside you, it will block signals coming from low angle signals from that side and also you may have signals bouncing off the rocks that will change the timing of received signals thus causing problems. I regularly pass through a cutting on the M1 motorway near Tuggerah. Each time I drive through it, the GPS speed increases, although I am travelling on cruise control.

When travelling in forest country you will also get problems. In Tasmania, some roads have so much tree cover that you totally lose sight of nearly all the satellites that could have otherwise been in view. You need to see a few of them at all times if you wish to have continuous guidance.

When you are out west of Hillston the country is devoid of big trees, hills and big rocks. You should have excellent GPS signal coverage out there. Where were you when you were experiencing GPS problems?


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Follow Up By: Michael M25 - Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 15:14

Saturday, Dec 02, 2023 at 15:14
Thanks Pete,
re GPS in my experience has shown reception characteristics as you say. Desert country is particularly good.
Signal barriers are common enough in Mountainous country and you don't have to go to Tassy for wet Gums to cradle tracks and GPS dies. A long term GPS issue is near where I live with a section of road, about 350m which PS's have always dropped out for a short period. No idea why.

The Hillston to Mungo is flat as a tack however I still carry decent hard copy maps and Topo's in remote mountain country along with a prismatic. Old school I guess. I treat GPS as a guide in our remote travels.

Cheers
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Reply By: Stephen L (Clare) SA - Sunday, Dec 03, 2023 at 00:20

Sunday, Dec 03, 2023 at 00:20
Michael

From what you have said in your original question, do you really know what you are on about?

You say your GPS has sent you off to the wrong place…..

This has nothing to do what so ever with a GPS, but rather the navigation system you are using.

As for relying on your in car navigation in your Toyota and your big Garmin, it sounds like you are using navigators that are only designed for city use and true remote locations around Australia.

I suggest that you get yourself a true moving map setup with a dedicated GPS receiver that will talk only to your dedicated moving map system and give you extremely accurate details of your exact location.

I have been using OziExplorer for nearly 20 years, with dedicated, topographical maps of the area we are travelling through a laptop computer coupled with a GPS received.

This system is not used as an go to system, but purely a moving map to give my precise location on the map. If you did not want to use a system like I use, the HEMA HX2 is a very simple plug and play system with accurate maps.

Modern true standalone GPS receivers have changed over the years and depending on the receiver you are using, you will have an accuracy of 4 metres or less.

There has only been one time ever when we were doing a 15 kilometre hike to a degree confluence location near Woomera where my GSP started off with an accuracy of 2 metres and then an hour into the walk blew out to 150 metres accuracy and as quick as it blew out, returned to normal when we arrived at the confluence.

Further enquires after the walk through other sources, I found out that the US were going GPS jamming texting in Woomera.

As has already been mentioned, all the GPS are at set, fixed location in spaced, and that data is then received anywhere on the earths surface that can receive GPS Data, the very same data that is used for PLB’s that are used in life threatening situations, SPOT GPS trackers etc.

So rather blaming the GPS system, blame the systems you are using and upgrade to a true moving map system.
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Sunday, Dec 03, 2023 at 16:24

Sunday, Dec 03, 2023 at 16:24
Day
I have no trouble with my navigator , if she says turn left , that's where I go even if it is the wrong way. It all come good in the end,
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Sunday, Dec 03, 2023 at 18:26

Sunday, Dec 03, 2023 at 18:26
Except when Karen sends you down a track that has not been used for 50 years.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 06:19

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 06:19
When my model says left she really meant right so I adjust accordingly. I learnt to do that when I drove a taxi for a while in my younger days. It's surprisingly similar across all those models.
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Follow Up By: Michael M25 - Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:25

Monday, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:25
Summary of Original Question;

I need to upgrade my GPS.

I'll miss Karen though and our hilarious arguments on trip.
Warning: arguing with intrinsic object doesn't lead to psychological health ;)

Thanks Lads

Mike
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