Gas regulators

Thanks, I should have made my post clear in that the gas ring is not a fixed device.

It is portable to be used outside the caravan and not fixed. My understanding is that the rules re flame outs apply to those devices fixed in/on caravans.

The flame out requirement applies to all appliances connected to the vans LPG system.

Thanks. I understand the compliance rules regarding a flame out device and using the bayonet. My reading of the new rules is that is for "fixed devices"

I ensured our bbq was compliant as soon as these came in place.

The gas ring is a portable device to be used outside the caravan, simply boiling water a pot of for a crab's prawns. Never operating inside the caravan and never fixed.

If I have read those rules correctly then the gas ring under those circumstances is compliant, however I may well be very wrong.

Bungarra,

Once you connect the "portable" device to the bayonet, it is considered to be part of the Fixed Caravan Gas System, as the bayonet is part of the fixed caravan system, anything you connect to the bayonet then comes under the current regulations. Your interpretation of the regs is exactly what the latest update to these regs was meant to cover off.

This was widely debated at the time, and the conclusion was that anything connected to the caravan fixed gas system, including via the bayonet, must comply, unless the caravan was built prior to the date of the latest update to the regs.

The only way to legally use this gas ring is to do what you have been doing, that is disconnect one of the gas bottles from the caravan, and connect your gas ring directly to the bottle. In many peoples eyes, there does not seem to be any difference to using the bayonet fitting, however the regulations now specifically include the bayonet fitting.

Of course, the decision is yours, however you can face a hefty fine is you are found using you gas ring connected to the bayonet fitting. Also, in the unlikely event of a fire, your insurance will be null and void.

Macca.

Thanks. All clear, I will remain compliant and continue to use it " stand alone".

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Further to what I said above, I have now downloaded the latest version of the Standard AS/NZS 5601.2 and have found the following which did not appear in my former copy:

"1.1.2 Exclusions.
This Standard does not apply to -
(e) Portable or mobile appliances (such as barbecues or patio heaters) that are connected to an LP Gas cylinder other than where an LP Gas cylinder(s) is connected to piping."

Accordingly, if the appliance is connected by a hose directly to the cylinder it is not subject to this Standard, BUT if the appliance connects to piping, such as a bayonet outlet and then piping to the cylinder it would be required to be subject to the Standard.
That expression essentially says that the connected portable appliance would be required to conform to the Standard and all its applicable requirements. It does not exclude the use of such appliances. Again, I would suggest you ask a licensed gas-fitter.

Its outside however I'm going to stick with it stand alone and not use the bayonet.

Good advice here and always best to be cautious and go the safest route.

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Hi Batt's, as the Standard says.... "other than where an LP Gas cylinder(s) is connected to piping.", then this gas cylinder is now isolated from the piping installation so the Standard does not apply.
But as each Australian State applies additional rules then who the hell knows? Then of course, what rules actually apply.... those of the State of vehicle manufacture, or those of the vehicle's current location? No wonder people want to take up Law as an occupation!

No worries.
Yeah some laws stop short and leave things open to difference interpretations from individuals. I think they deliberately do it sometimes to generate controversy amongst the community.

Or it's because the clowns who have a passion for dreaming up ever more complex and confusing regulations don't have the clarity of mind to state them clearly.

Batts,

Allan B’s response is the correct one, once disconnected from the gas piping, under the regulations, it is irrelevant where the gas cylinder is actually located.

Also, these particular regulations are a National Standard and apply in every state and territory. Unlike some other regulations, such as requiring a current “Gas Compliance” certificate every time you register you caravan, as some states insist on.

Macca.

Maybe the regs are written that way because the writers assume the people that care enough to read them have a degree of common sense and don't think they have to cater for complete idiots, even idiots with bits missing.

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It may be helpful if I outline the role and application of Standards in Australian legislation.

Australian Standards appeared in the 1920s produced by the Standards Association of Australia (SAA). The name and formation has changed over time and is now SAI Global, an international company.
Initially, contributors were largely voluntary and in the 1960s I was a member occasionally serving on committees for review of draft standards for electrical installations in hazardous areas.

The produced standards initially have no legal authority until they are referred to in Government legislation where they may be referred to in part or whole in a Government Act.
Understanding this potential, the authors tend to compose standards in the formal language of legal documents rather than in an instructional form. Being an engineer that needed to instruct tradespersons I sometimes ran into wording arguments in these committees. We sometimes added notes of clarification but such seem to not appear in recent Standards.

In essence, the Standard is a legal document rather than an instructional one and may not be simple to correctly discern by a layman. To complicate matters further, legislation by a government may add further requirements to the Regulation, varying State-to-State. It is often necessary for tradespersons to obtain "interpretations" of the regulation. It is perilous therefore to interpret less than clear expressions without experience or departmental advice.

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Hi QC, "Maybe the regs are written that way…….."
No, "commonsense" has nothing to do with it. Only the meaning in Law. Interpreted by lawyers and judges and applied by Courts. It is an industry of interpretation and application earning billions.

Yep, the world of litigation killed common sense. There will be rooms devoted to common sense in museums soon.