Petrol versus diesel

Submitted: Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:24
ThreadID: 15182 Views:3749 Replies:26 FollowUps:44
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Hi,

We are looking at buying a new 4WD, what is best petrol or diesel?
We've been told that diesel will be going up in price, Our mechanic has told us to buy petrol, can anyone help!!!
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Reply By: Lone Wolf - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:30

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:30
Okay........... I'm bracing myself here............ gonna get rough..............

I've got both. Diesel is a bastard to start on cold mornings, but got heaps of grunt.

Petrol is nice & smooth, and when ya fill it up at the bowser, ya don't get oily mitts!

Cheers

Useless information Wolf
AnswerID: 70626

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:46

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:46
Wolfie your deisel shouldnt be that hard to start sounds like your glow plugs arent working properly.
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Follow Up By: Lone Wolf - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 07:03

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 07:03
Mmm.........

We had new Glow Plugs installed about 4 months ago, and the solenoid for the heat was a bit sticky, so we've had that fixed as well.

I think we'll just have to live with it.

Cheers

Wolfie
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Reply By: Baz (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:33

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:33
If you are going to do a lot of off road and towing and long distance travelling than a diesel is the best.
AnswerID: 70628

Reply By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:37

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:37
I'll second that,Diesel for outback travel.Infact i'd go for a diesel everytime.The new modern diesels nearly match petrols power anyway.
AnswerID: 70629

Reply By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:43

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:43
Diesel if travelling into the deep outback where petrol is not available otherwise petrol wins by a country mile but there are numerous diesel diehards who will not agree. Diesel is for large trucks or cars in countries where fuel is expensive.
AnswerID: 70632

Follow Up By: Newie - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:57

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:57
It seems there are a lot of diesel heads out there,
Thanks
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Follow Up By: Member - Ivan (ACT) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:58

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 19:58
Not just for availability either, but economy (range)... Look at how far you want to be travelling...

If you're going to get reasonably serious, then an important factor is distance per tank. Or put another way, you will have to carry fuel in jerries.

First, ensure your tank is too not too small to start with(these range from 70 lt on some cars to 180 on the new Prado)

Diesels will go further with less, and won't vary as much as petrol if you load it up, or tow something...

If you'll only be doing day and weekend trips etc, then back to petrol is probably good...
Cheers,

Ivan
2008 D4D Prado

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Follow Up By: Member - Ivan (ACT) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:07

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:07
Would you believe I own a petrol ;-)

Next one will be a diesel though..
Cheers,

Ivan
2008 D4D Prado

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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:14

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:14
I don't tink it'll get too rough, most here are pretty balanced but lets hope it does eh :) Personally I'd read all the info and decide whats best for me.

Did you read that recent diesel/petrol thread on the overlander forum, a real beauty.
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Follow Up By: Lone Wolf - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 07:05

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 07:05
Sigh......... yes I did follow that one...........

Imagine........... all those vehicles running on Tesosterone.............

Cheers

Wolfie
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Follow Up By: Austravel - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 14:04

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 14:04
Hi,

Couldn't find the thread on overlander you were talking about, can you give me some directions.

thanks
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 14:12

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 14:12
All 25 pages of it.

http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=15868
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Reply By: mr diamond - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:11

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:11
hard question with to many answers.
diesal easier to get out back if your doing heaps.
diesal a little more economical.diesal more torque for towing.
but then theres the down side
more to buy originally
dearer to service
way dearer for parts
AnswerID: 70641

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:22

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:22
A lot of the petrol engines are just as torquey as the diesels and of course a diesel has have a turbo before it's even in the race but yes a diesel is more economical which is why trucks are diesel but gee whizz the price of parts can bring on another house mortage.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:17

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:17
Ray,
I had a turbo petrol, and had the best of both worlds, 220kw @ the rear wheels, 580nm, max boost [10psi] at 1300rpm, and when www.lcool.org ran an economy run afew years ago, we had one factory turbo diesel 80 use 1/2 a litre less than my turbo petrol 4.5 80 for the same trip, all the other petrols and diesels used more.

Mine got 11.2 lt per 100km for the economy run, which is in line with what Overlander got both times it did write ups on the 4.5 petrol turbo safari used to make.
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Reply By: Member - Cookster(VIC) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:19

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:19
We are now in our second 4wd. For us the decision was made on traveling range, with up to a 1000 k’s per tank filling traveling long distances is easy. Another advantage is (so I was told) that if we travel long distances and have to take spare fuel, diesel can be stored legally in the car while petrol as to be carried outside on a roof rack or trailer.
That’s how we would describe it:
Petrol: smooth driving, high fuel consumption, less service (oil changes)
Diesel: strong, significantly less fuel consumption, more services (oil changes)
Our decision was twice for diesel – we simply prefer it.
AnswerID: 70645

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:24

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:24
250 litres of petrol can be legally and safely carried in a vehicle anywhere within oz.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bob - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 09:58

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 09:58
Cookster
the Discovery has a 20,000 km service interval. I am not aware of many petrol vehicles with a longer service interval than that.
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Follow Up By: Member - Cookster(VIC) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 13:33

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 13:33
Nosey Wolf,

Unfortunately I did not get any further than my factory. We're snowed under at the moment - long hours, no EO activities or sleep.

Sleepy cookster
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Follow Up By: Member - Cookster(VIC) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 13:47

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 13:47
Bob,

That's what I mean, between oil changes I have 5,000 kilometres on my diesel while a petrol engine has at least 10,000 kilometres between changes.
IMHO when it comes to running costs by the end of the day it will work probably work out the same when you add fuel costs and service costs between diesel and petrol. In our case the buying decision was made on personal preferences, as I said lots of kilometres with one tank filling.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 14:07

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 14:07
Just remember that when and how often one services depends on conditions of operation. That figure from the manufacturer is the extreme limit quoted to make it sound good and there is usually another figure for what they call extreme conditions but in reaility are normal conditions for a lot of us such as short distance trips, stop start driving, towing, etc.
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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:22

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:22
I am going to set the cat amongst the pidgeons here. Petrol/lpg is the way to go IMHO. The oilers need TLC all their life and foget the fact diesels will last 500 000 k. Hav e you ever had a car that yoy ahve donn 500 000k in? I have'nt. Petrol = more power. (2 or 3 times as much) Servicing is cheaper cos u can get away with with a service every 15k. And when you do a trip like the simpson you will be on the way home and they will still be at MT Dare wondering where u got 2.
AnswerID: 70650

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:32

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:32
I love dual fuel but not much good after leaving the last LPG depot. I usually fill up with lpg at the last depot and use petrol until within range of the next depot. It's handy to have a full tank in cause of trouble, lpg doesn't need afuel pump or a lot of the other electronics for the engine to run. During my last trip I had problems on petrol but was able to make it to the next camp on LPG where I tracked down a faulty fuel pump connection.
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Follow Up By: mr diamond - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:47

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:47
yep duel fuel
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Reply By: navaraman - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:33

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:33
Diesels are far better for crawling down steep slopes and are better on water crossings IMO.
AnswerID: 70653

Reply By: motherhen - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:49

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:49
Our Nissan Turbo-Dsl has the pick up of car - beats my old commodore any day. Like a modern car, have to keep watching and bringing it back to 110 kms/hr. Deisel motors last longer, and my husband knows more about how to fix them than with petrols, which helped us choose deisel for going outback.
AnswerID: 70657

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 21:07

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 21:07
>Deisel motors last longer

Do they really, why! Because there are numerous examples in trucks that are doing long distance hauls everyday clocking up huge K's

In the same circumstances petrol motors can clock up huge K's as well.
My old commodore did over 350,000 k's in my hands and never looked like dying when I sold it.

How long an engine last depends on numerous factors., design, servicing, operation and no doubt others.
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Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:55

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 20:55
Newie I have both I use a petrol cruiser for Paddock work as it has more grunt and fuel cons. is similar and my previous wagon was petrol gas and for most of the time it is fine, but it does make out back travel more difficult, as fitting extra fuel tanks with a gas tank is not always possibly.
I now use a deisel wagon and it makes a great long distance cruiser, so it is a personal choice as to what you wish to do.
Outback travelling long distances around oz go the deisel, Around the populated areas and for towing and general use go the petrol, or dual fuel.
AnswerID: 70658

Reply By: Member - Tim D (VIC) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 21:11

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 21:11
Had both diesel jackaroo, pajero gq patrol on gas/petrol now terracan petrol and going to the desert with it. The main problem with diesel is the price to repair the engine if it breaks cost is very high needs to be serviced on time cost alot more to service Petrol/gas limits distanced traveled Petrol is available throughout most of the outback these days but am looking at puting a second tank in the terracan where the spare wheel goes and then put a tyre carrier on the back will then have arange of about 160ltrs of petrol. Diesel motors more prone to water damage if water gets into the motor but petrol will start after awhile if it gets wet wd40 usally fixes the problem any way. Diesel if it breaks down out in the out back and its a toyo or patrol you will most likely get it fixed Terracan I dont think so
So it boils down to what you are going to do with the 4x4 I still preferer the petrol arfter speaking to eric who also seems to like the petrol
AnswerID: 70660

Reply By: Vinnie - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 22:23

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 22:23
BOTH::::
As long as it is a 4bee
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Reply By: Aandy(WA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 22:52

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 22:52
My opinion is that diesel is the only way to go if you are going to use the vehicle as a 4WD. One person mentioned that diesels have higher torque. This is true when comparing same sized engines. The most important fact that hasn't been mentioned though is that diesels produce their maximum torque at something like half the revs of their petrol counterparts. This is the major reason for their fuel consumption under load being significantly lower than for the same vehicle with a petrol engine. This in turn gives greater range especially in rugged conditions. I crossed the Simpson in a diesel Prado and was still on the first of two 90 litre tanks when I arrived in Birdsville. I filled at Oodnadatta. No LPG there by the way. Travelling companions in a petrol Landcruiser and petrol Patrol had to carry many jerry cans of fuel. Two others driving diesel Discoveries used a similar amount to me, but did have to carry fuel as their vehicles carry less in their tanks.
I've never had starting problems with either my 4WD or my Isuzu NPR400 and I think that the person who cited poor starting as a negative aspect of running diesel has another problem. The additional cost of servicing also needs to be analysed. An additional oil change each 5,000km costs less than $100 even if done professionally. I save that amount in reduced fuel costs after about 2,000km. This is based on a saving of 5l/100km. Diesel Landcruisers are significantly dearer than petrol and are very scarce on the used market. Diesel Prados are the same price as the petrol version and in high demand with a 3-4 month wait and very few on the used market. I do hope this rather long winded eply has been of some help to you all.
AnswerID: 70681

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 23:06

Saturday, Jul 31, 2004 at 23:06
Quite a biased eply Andy but good onya mate.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 00:06

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 00:06
Aandy, have to tell you, your spelling may be good, and your placement of small , on the screen, but your idea of diseasel/petrol isnt entirely correct.

A 100 series 4.5 petrol engine makes more torque at 800rpm than a 1hzzz makes in total, though they are closer in 1hdfte vs petrol 4.5, with nm within 25nm and kw 20 more the the petrol.

Also, while we recently did a double simpson crossing, 17 cars travelling together, all toyota's of differing model/engine, the fuel consumption of the V6 120 series was within 14 lt of my diesel prado, 90 series and within 4 lt of the diesel 120 prado.

The most fuel was a 4.5 petrol 100, and the least was a 79 series tray 1hdfte intercooled diesel.

They did all go the same places though.
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Follow Up By: Aandy(WA) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 23:22

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 23:22
Mad dog I was giving my opinion and I have a sneaking suspicion that the opinion of anyone can be called biased. A balanced view is obtained by seeking the opinions (biases) of many people and weighing them up. Cheers!
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Follow Up By: Aandy(WA) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 23:44

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 23:44
GO_OFFROAD I don't follow your argument. Are you telling me that a petrol engine produces than a same sized diesel at lower revs? A quick look at the Toyota site yielded this information: 100 series TD 430Nm@1400rpm. 100series V8 petrol 410Nm@3400rpm. I think I originally said the diesel figure was achieved at half the revs of the petrol. In this case a 5% gain in torque is obtained at 41% of the revs. Remember that you must at least compare similar sized engines in similar vehicles to get a fair comparison. Apart from the official Toyota figures, I think you also have the weight of conventional wisdom stacked against you. When next you venture into true off road conditions (not dropping the kids off to ballet or battling the urban carparks), count the number of diesel 4wds. Or try checking out how many large trucks or buses are filling up at the petrol pumps at a service centre on a highway near you. Sorry if I've been a bit scathing on you but really it is common knowledge to most. I'm not putting petrol engines down. They're quieter, generally more responsive and generally produce more power. However my point is that diesels are more economical and have greater low down torque.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:00

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:00
Well aandy, seems you also have been intiuged by the urban myth, where you believe because lots of people do it, it must be correct.....

So, to help you realise what I said is actually correct, and does go by matching engine sizes, the 4.5 petrol I6 makes more torque at 800 rpm as I said than the 4.2lt na diesel makes in total, and have you checked the 120 series prado diesel/petrol? And you want to compare engine sizes, what about comparing them as normally aspirated vs turbo intercooled, as I did, but you failed to realise........

Now check the 0-100 times and tel me all that torque makes for a better accelerating vehicle...

doesnt torque move weight? and give you your kph while hp gives you your et?

And we havent even bolted a turbo and intercooler on the petrol, so its same configuration as the diesel yet, have we??????

I have had turbo petrol, turbo diesel, n/a, and I can tell you from a hands on perspective, the turbo petrol wins hands down on power, torque, fuel economy, and low down torque when comparing to all engine sizes.

But please feel free to fill us in on what you have owned, and how it compared, so we can understand better your position............. and apples with apples............as you suggested in your reply.........

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Follow Up By: Aandy(WA) - Thursday, Aug 05, 2004 at 21:44

Thursday, Aug 05, 2004 at 21:44
Off road, I currently own a petrol Prado and a TD Prado. I have owned a petrol Pajero, a petrol Landcruiser and a diesel Patrol. I am aware of the relative merits of both but I just happen to believe that if you compare a Diesel Prado with a petrol prado or a diesel Cruiser with a petrol cruiser the diesel on balance is more suited to the serious off roader. But that's just my opinion and I'm so sorry if it worries you so much that it differs from yours! You are quite wrong with the relaitive torque figures. Petrol engines always require higher revs to produce the same torque as a diesel. That is a known fact not an opinion.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Thursday, Aug 05, 2004 at 22:34

Thursday, Aug 05, 2004 at 22:34
You may wish to research your comments better, and get back to us on that, as you are quoting heresay, not fact.

from the toyota site

1hz toyota engine
Maximum Power 96kW @ 3800rpm
Maximum Torque 285Nm @ 2200rpm

1fz-fe
Maximum Power 155kW @ 4600rpm
Maximum Torque 373Nm @ 3600rpm

From the toyota broshure on the 78 series release

The 4.5 petrol engine has stump pulling torque, with a flat torque curve making 312nm at 800rpm to a maximum of 373nm at 3600rpm

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Follow Up By: Aandy(WA) - Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:59

Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:59
Offroad, from the Toyota site but not their brochure.
Landcruiser TD 430Nm @ 1400rpm
Landcruiser V8 petrol 410Nm @ 3400rpm
The V8 petrol produces a maximum torque figure which is 95% of that of the TD. It requires a 242% increase in rpm to produce 95% of the torque. The 6 cylinder petrol quoted by you are substantially less of course, in fact they barely match the performance of the 4cylinder TD Prado engine!!!!!!!!!
This really is a pointless argument. Those are the plain facts. If you are a petrol fan that's fine but I simply gave my opinion and have now backed it up with facts. My diesel Prado is not as fast off the mark as my petrol model. It doesn't leap past road trains on the highway. It however does pull my trailer with greater ease than the petrol and it will do 170kph if pushed. It is much more economical than the petrol model and around town goes 1350-1400km between fills(and that's leaving more than 20l in the tank). I could go from Oodnadatta to Birdsville via the French Line and back to Oodnadatta without refuelling. It is definitely a man's vehicle but the ladies are quite happy when it's on the open road. I'm happier with my diesel than I am with my petrol. I will soon sell the petrol vehicle and replace it with another TD. Petrol engines are great in cars. They are less attractive in off road vehicles and are unheard of in really large vehicles. I guess you use your vehicle mainly around town or on highways - mainly in "car mode" and you're happy with it and that is not a problem to me. Neither should the fact that I go off road frequently and prefer a diesel engine be a problem to you.
Cheers! The end ... I can't convince you I know but I do suggest that you have a chat to some diesel drivers and even try a test drive. You'll be surprised how good they are - a really strong feel too! And they don't drown if you go through deep water either and they're great for going up and DOWN steep hills.
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Reply By: Member - Sparkie (QLD) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 07:57

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 07:57
I drive a1992 V6 3.2 petrol Jackaroo and on the open road runs as good for fuel if not better than my brothers 2.8 tdi Patrol( both unladen). With driving offroad I used 18.1l/100k and the Patrol came in at 16.3l/100k so I have to admit if you need economy, diesel is the way to go but you end up paying more for the diesel at the pump.
I personally would not drive anything else but a petrol as it is what I prefer. better pickup and smoother accelaration and better to overtake with.

My Jackaroo has 231500 kays on the clock and still drives like new. With the small amount of revs at 100 kph(2700rpm) the motor is not reving a lot so the wear on the motor is reduced and will last half a million kays like diesel cars. this is my OPINION not fact but I hope to prove it with this car.

As for servicing the vehicle. You are spending big dollars on purchasing a vehicle and the vehicle still needs to be maintained so the cost of servicing may be more but that comes with owning a heavy duty vehicle which is capable of lasting the distance.

Good luck with your purchase. I am a fan of petrol and would gladly recommend it.

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)
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Reply By: James M - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 08:42

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 08:42
Go for the petrol if you want. I mean it's nearly as good as a diesel.
Diesel is cheaper at the pump, more redialy avaliable out back, better compression for down hill crawls. All this has been mentioned above, but what I like is the torque curve of a deisel. Look how low it is as compared to a petrol.

AnswerID: 70698

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:22

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:22
There's not much between pump price. Looking at the national prices on this site petrol generally is a bit cheaper.

There is no comparison between a turbo petrol and turbo diesel of equalivent size when it comes to power and torque. The petrol will win by a country mile.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:27

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:27
Diesel is cheaper at the pump?

Where? Europe?
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Follow Up By: James M - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 12:09

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 12:09
Sorry, you guys are correct. What I meant to say was you don't need as much diesel.
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 17:46

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 17:46
Been to New Zealand lately?

Petrol was between $1.11 - $1.21
Diesel between $0.65 - $0.75

South Island

Utemad
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Reply By: Member - Bob - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:12

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:12
Advantages of petrol : cleaner, more power, quieter, a few cents cheaper at the bowser, cheaper initial purchase price (varies between makes and models), less likely to 'hydraulic' when drowned, your mechanic knows how to work on them ;-)

Advantages of diesel : more torque low down, availability, less flammable, better range for same volume of fuel

Me personally : wouldn't dream of buying a petrol 4WD for touring work again(although I have one of each). The Disco TD5 has a 20,000km service interval which I find unobtrusive. With new vehicles repairs etc don't seem to be an issue.
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Reply By: westozal - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:28

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:28
Hi, I know that this info is not particularly close to your question but may help someone else who is looking at an older vehicle. I have owned both petrol and diesel GQ patrols and find that the diesel in 4.2 form uses about half the fuel of a 4.2 petrol in general day to day running.
Obvoiusly there are tradeoffs in power etc but i have always got to where the petrols have in a diesel even if up a high sandhill i have to go round instead of over .
In my thinking it doesnt take long for the diesel to become more econmical to run given the difference in fuel consumption.
By the way the petrol was a carby version.
Hope this is helpfull.
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Reply By: kiss'n'dirt - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:28

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:28
I recently gone through this process for 4 months and it drove me nuts. I'll give you an honest opinion and i ended up with a petrol Patrol.

It all depends on the type of petrol. When you consider a hugh Patrol or L/Cruiser, their Kw and Nm output is sometimes better than Diesels. If on the other hand when you look at something smaller, than you need to weight up your driving needs and carrying capacity to power output of the vehicle.

Diesel last longer is a bit of crap, not without maintenance. If you maintain a Petrol motor, it too will last longer. Question you have to ask is would you still be driving the 4WD when it has 400000-500000km on it? how confident would you be at taking a vehicle with that many km's on it out on a trip. I know some people do, but personally i wouldn't. I'll prefer a newer vehicle.

RACQ completed tests not to long ago and found a Petrol 4WD works out to be cheaper to maintain than a diesel over a period of 4 years or longer. I did some figures and you need to be honest and consider everything, I too found a diesel to be more expensive to run.

I can budget extra cost for fuel every fortnight, that's easy. If things go wrong, no more expensive to repair than a falcon or commodore. Diesel, what you save in diesel (and the real gain is the range of the vehicle, no cheaper at the bowser) you better invest it somewhere and hope it grows for you. Parts are expensive and if you want the diesel running with max power and torque, you'll need extra money to clean/de-sulphur the engine every 100000-150000km. I'm sure there was an article last year about a L/C getting cleaned and dynoed.

I get fuel injectors removed and cleaned for $30 each every 100000km.

My buddy just paid $1400 for an injector pump on his diesel and another paid $1600 for an injector for his TD5. All including labour of course. These low sulphur diesel are going to cause problems and the gov's fix is to produce diesel conditioners and it's costing them heaps at the bowser.

Not so cheap now, is it.

My previous car was a Pajero using 16.5L/100k. My Patrol now uses 17.5L/100k.
I have carrying capacity, towing capacity, power and torque, cheap running cost, spares everywhere, and any mech can get me moving home if required. The main prob with petrol is the range of the car. long range tanks will soon fix that. How often do diesels go out west with out extra fuel?

Another mate in a 3.0 Td Patrol uses 14L/100k. and he is paranoid about his car dying somewhere with the probs in the series II.

I swore i was going to buy a 4.2Td Patrol or Lc after my Pajero. After a bit of logical research, I was crazy not to buy a Petrol.

I love my petrol TI Patrol. brilliant to drive on highway and in the city. lots of power. And you can pick up a second hand Patrol ST4500 for $30 000 because the dealers keep spinning the myth of expensive running costs. BS

It's your call.
AnswerID: 70710

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 11:41

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 11:41
Accurate

Spot On

Correct

The Truth

Well analysed

Factual

Balanced

Supported by data

Free from bias or emotion

You just left out the bit about performance-Petrol kills Diesel.
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Follow Up By: Uppy - Member - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 12:47

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 12:47
Good to read a balance point of view.Ive got a gq 4.2 efi.its a great wagon to travel in.I get a driving range of are 600-650 kms on a std tank 95 lts,Ive replaced the fuel pump $400.(if it was desiel,the pump would cost 3000-4000)also the gq is our only wagon,so we do alot of short trips around town,which isnt to good for desiels.
regards uppy
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FollowupID: 330913

Follow Up By: Pauly - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 18:52

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 18:52
Very well said i have a gq petrol carby and get 463ks on 95 ltrs thats running on 98 octane fuel and have a very heavy right foot have not yet tried it on standard fuel. am replacing the fuel pump next weekend only cost me $170.

desiels are like their owners all torq : )
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Reply By: navaraman - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:40

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 10:40
I read an article in a $WD mag acouple of months ago comparing anew LC100 petrol v diesel for running costs. The petrol cam out infront after about 90000 ks from memory when purchase price, depreciation, fuel and maintenace costs were factored in.

AnswerID: 70713

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 11:42

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 11:42
It's the truth but so many people only understand L/100 km.
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Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 11:55

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 11:55
It think I read that too. Modern petrol motors have come a long way since the introduction of efi and have longer periods beteen servicing.
Modern diesels have much of the electronics that their petrol cousin has and have lost some of their deep water capability but have more on road power than the old diesels
To get the savings from a diesel you need to do your own oil/filter changes and clock up a lot of miles.
If I was buying a large 4x4 I think I would be looking at a diesel,but if its something small I would go petrol.
The small 4 cyl diesels without turbo are just too slow on the open road


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FollowupID: 330909

Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:08

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:08
When I got my 2000 mdel 78 series troopy I did the sums from new, 4.5 petrol vs 4.2 1hz n/a, and found if I left diesela s it was, I had to do 140,000km before I broke even witht he 4.5 petrol, and if I turboed the 1hz to make it perform nearer tot he 4.5 petrol, I had to do over 300,000km to break even, so, given the 4.5 petrol made more torque at 800rpm than the diesel made total, and I trade them when warranty is up, so i was never going to do 300,000km in it, I got the petrol, and enjoyed the drive every time I drove it, didnt get diesel on my hands when filling it from the nozzle, didnt get diesel on my shoes froma round the bowser on the ground, and smiled every time I filled the thing, knowing the diesel wouldnt of been any cheaper........

I currently have a TD prado, and get around the same economy as the V6 model, which has servicing half as often,a nd costs about $800 less to buy, so that gets you more petrol, for less $$$ than buying one of the most economical diesel 4wds available.........
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Reply By: Joe - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 12:19

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 12:19
A recent 3 week trip in Simpson deseret by16 4wd's... the Toyota Lcool group showed the v6 prado petrol only used slightly more fuel than the desiel unit,so by time you paying extra servicing cost for desiel...nothing in it.
On the tracks, the v6 prado auto was only unit to drive up on over big red in one go.All others had numerious attempts and some just could not get up it The v6 prado petrol auto simply powered through dunes and salt flats while others plugged away behind.
prado 120 have 180 lt tanks.
Check out Lcool 120 site at yahoo for the facts
People are not seeing that technology has changed, and seem stuck on desiel.
Regards
Joe
AnswerID: 70718

Reply By: Member - Bob - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 17:51

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 17:51
Newie,
having read all of the above it is apparent that if you are a w-nker then petrol is the way to go
AnswerID: 70767

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 18:35

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 18:35
Not kind
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Follow Up By: Joe - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 19:54

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 19:54
Bob,
You need to keep an open mind and not live in the past.
Joe
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Follow Up By: Member - Bob - Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 22:10

Sunday, Aug 01, 2004 at 22:10
Joe,
point taken
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Follow Up By: Member - Paul J (ACT) - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 09:49

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 09:49
Shlt, Saturday week ago i became a Wanker....................
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:19

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:19
Bob, I think your post may have turned the tide there....... ;-)
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Reply By: Richard & Leonie - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 18:19

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 18:19
More confused than ever? We are in the same market and have the same questions. After reading all the answers I think there are only a few valid reasons to consider diesel. Better down hills off road in holding the car back but then life is not all downhill. Better fuel consumption per tank load of fuel, ie go further without filling up.
All other arguments are purely IMHO. The present cheaper cost of diesel is negated by higher service costs and high costs of repairs. Diesel is historically higher in price than petrol in NSW and there is no reason why cheaper diesel is a flash in the pan so to speak. You can fit an additional tank to increase the range for petrol but then you are using more fuel to carry the extra fuel. Like chasing your tail. When people say diesel is more readily available I am not sure this is correct. For the odd time in the future when we might find a trek where petrol is scarce we might have to carry extra petrol. Why go to diesel just because you may have to carry extra petrol once in a blue moon. Deep water crossings may be a problem for petrol motors. Somehow I am not so sure about this. We do not have a snorkel and have crossed up to 700mm deep with a blind over the front. I gerni wash my engine regularly and it has never failed to start after doing so. If the engine is going to get inundated with so much water it will stop it I would suggest that the drivers water crossing technique is poor or a crossing should not be attempted. I did have a diesel driver offer to tow me across a river if it got too deep. So always take a friend with diesel vehicle as a backup.
I am still confused so it is going to come down to ???? how good the salesperson is and I have to admit I am a pushover to smooth talking.
Richard (Leonie would not have a clue what we have been talking about.)
AnswerID: 70931

Reply By: Member - Brett H (QLD) - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 19:09

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 19:09
You buggers.

I am flat out trying to decide if I should buy a 78 series diesel troopy or a !00 series diesel and then I started thinking about the TD 100 series but the IFS has me worried. Having owned and driven ONLY diesels for the last 20 years I hadn't allocated any brain power to a petrol vehicle.

Now you buggers start this thread... Thankyou very much.

Look at all of the variations I have to contend with now.!!!!!!
AnswerID: 70943

Reply By: W from Jerilderie Motors Pty Ltd - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 19:25

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 19:25
Go the power & go the economy you all have your views but I will throw " another log on the fire "
Most manufacturers charge more for diesel turbo than petrol
Toyota Prado GXL Turbo Diesel & Petrol same price
Go & have an Oh What A Feeling look today & see which one is available for you to pay for today & take home tonight
It will not be a diesel turbo that will be a 15-18 weks wait
When you get that petrol so easy today @ " other end " when you want to dispose of it will bite you in the bum it will not sell today like a Turbo diesel but take 15 - 18 weeks.
BOTH SAME PRICE TODAY
2yo 40000k Diesel Turbo $40-$45000
2yo petrol $30000 would be plenty for it
4wds like trucks have big chassis, they need diesel torque to pull it & no Japanese 6cyl petrol will ever be like an Australian 6 cyl Falcon/Holden torque it will be like a Japanese Toyota Crown, yes & all you LPG/Petrol combo lovers put weight on it & use it & you will use full capability of both fuel mediums & still be looking for next bowser.
In our business we never get 1 yo Turbo Diesel Private owners wanting to go Petrol & Trade in, the same cannot be said for Petrol buyers wanting to go to Diesel update & when you tell them the trade in price of their Petrol 4wd they all go " Oh " but are not alarmed as they know already & as I say to them just because you were that silly does not mean the next buyer is going to be,
Think retention & you will soon decide, & keep bottle of lemon based hand cleaner under bonnet & smell of diesel on hands not a problem & re wife cannot fill a diesel it will use so little she will not have to, it can last couple weeks till Dad the interstate away a lot truckie gets home, it does not need filling every couple hours like a petrol in a truck !
AnswerID: 70949

Follow Up By: vuduguru - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 21:58

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 21:58
Yeah Jerilderie, is that a suburb??? Rule of thumb if you live int the country or do a lot of country km's then diesel seems most practical. If your a city slicker or concrete cowboy (me) petrol is the go. Read between the lines... this thead does spell it out. For me 400-600 km's a week in Sydney traffic at 14.5-16.5 km l is practical... and say to yourself V8 Landcruiser...mmm. Less wank that turbo diesel landcruiser I'm sure. My 96.5c pl
Shane
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FollowupID: 331207

Follow Up By: W from Jerilderie Motors Pty Ltd - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 23:01

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 23:01
Shane,
Remember I am entitled to my opinion as much as you are to yours before you get too upset with my next answer.
Yeah Jerilderie is a bit further out of traffic lights & " Latte Land " than you could imagine, but that does not mean I live there but I would rather be out in " boil the billy land " anytime, & every time I need a fix I go to Sydney for work ( couple times a week ) see all the city traffic lights & the sooner I get out of there the better
but @ least I don,t need to go to website to see what time to get off M? or
to think mmmV8 Cruiser , with clunking driveline or whatever , or where are the unijoints,
but then again I am no guru & no I did not buy my first 4wd last year & find it just a tad tad thirstier than a Commodore Wagon, & if I want a V8 fix I definitely would not jump in a 4wd V8 there are much faster lighter V8,s around out here, ( email me privately & come for a quick overnight interstate trip in something other than 4wd & you may change your mind about fast V8 Cruisers ) but you are so correct I do find most cowboys I meet are from that concrete jungle, I am not holding any stick, &
YES smelly oilburner 4wds do rate here & especially in retention value of which you are yet to learn about & yes I have had V8 Sahara 2003 trade in with sat nav in it so old it could not find a street in a provincial city & the housing estate was 1976, but you are right it was mmm.smoothe.
Regardless of all the above, you are entitled to your opinion as much as I am to mine & for the original enquirer my views re comparison have not changed &
to you Shane
after years in the industry I am in, it will take more than a few words from some city guru to upset me,
enjoy your 4 wd & I just love forums !
( but don,t take it to heart I am only jesting you )
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FollowupID: 331212

Reply By: W from Jerilderie Motors Pty Ltd - Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 23:33

Monday, Aug 02, 2004 at 23:33
To save " Newie " looking @ all this dribble,
someone who is more computer literate than I am,
put up a tally/ vote count forum & ask the Question
WHICH WOULD YOU BUY PETROL OR DIESEL TURBO
& that would be a quick fix & IF I was a betting man I would be putting my $ on Diesel in this scenario but who knows until we give it a go.
AnswerID: 70993

Reply By: Member - John C (QLD) - Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 20:39

Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 20:39
Bl...dy hell! ..... my eyes are sore!

Thought it would never end.

BTW
Diesel wins!
AnswerID: 71580

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