French line

The mighty Chamberlain :))

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Yair, but try parking them at Woolworths.

In my experience, most couldn't park a Ranger at Woolworths...

Cheers, Mark
(a Ranger driver.. lookfor me with the wheels over the line...)

Peter. comments in your experience, is probably more to do with your ability and not the general Traveler ..but pls keep in mind that those trying to discourage people from Towing across the Simpson not encouraging .

Nick, I didn't think I was encouraging anyone to tow - my comment was mainly a reaction to everyone saying that it's harder going east to west. My experiences was the opposite. If someone does tow then I think it's only sensible to warn them that they need a proper tested off-road camper. As for my ability saving me - I definitely wouldn't give myself that much credit, especially the first time!

Hi Peter_mcc,

When travelling from east to west, that is from Birdsville to Mt. Dare, you are climbing the eastern face of the dunes, and as you pointed out, they are steeper and can be more chopped up. That is why an east to west crossing is more difficult.

Macca.

Macca - I was saying the exact opposite but I now realise I have mucked up my east/west faces. My mistake and I don't seem to be able to edit it.

For my trip the eastern faces were smooth and the western faces were chopped to bits. We could glide up the eastern side, backing off the throttle so we were at walking pace at the top but then had to slow down even more to descend the western faces because they were so chopped up with alternating potholes.

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It is frequently advocated that transit toward the east is preferable to heading west due to dune incline.
I have now crossed 10 times using both directions. On my first crossing heading west many years ago I did observe that the scalloping was worse on the western face and on reflection that may have been because most vehicles were travelling to the east and powering up the western face and cruising down the east face. But I really do not know the favoured traffic direction. It seemed that the scallops were much the same on both sides on later crossings.

I must say in reality, I found no significant difference in ease of direction. On my first crossing I had 18psi in the tyres and had a little difficulty on one dune until I dropped to 15psi. The Ranger at Dalhousie Springs told me he used 15psi at all times and loadings so that became my standard for all subsequent crossings. I would head either way without further consideration. I just wish I was doing it tomorrow.

I have crossed in each direction, not as many times as Allan B, but my experience is similar. Whilst when heading East to West the dunes are steeper and can have some pretty deep holes, I found the going wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be. There was only one dune I had to have more than one attempt at, but that was because a couple of Motorcycles crested the ridge just as I started up. I stopped and backed down to let them pass, and then went up.

On my last crossing which was East to West, I had to wait for several minutes at one spot owing to a couple of large 4WD Tour Busses coming the other way. One was having more difficulty than the other, he actually got stuck coming down the Eastern face of one dune. He did manage to extract himself, but the hole that he left was quite deep and wide. The large wheels and tyres on these things certainly leave bigger holes and ruts.

Macca.

In my (limited) experience, those holes (first left, then right) are caused by wheel spin which in turn is caused by too much power and too much air and drivers who "charge" dunes instead of crawling up.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

I have to disagree that vehicles cause all of it. On the Madigan a few years back & stopped to answer the call of nature. It was blowing a gale & it was interesting to watch the wind coming down the swale & leaving heaps of sand on the track behind small vegetation & ripping the sand out where there was none. Wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Wish now I'd taken a video of it.

The track used to be absolutely straight.
Now it wanders all over the place with diversions and bends in the most unlikely places.
The wind is not responsible for that.

Couple of years back I watched a motorbike driving at high speed with a constant rooster tail, making his own new track 50 metres from the proper one and parallel to it.
Then there were 2 blokes on Quad bikes whose objective was clearly to go as fast as they could, an objective clearly followed by many 4WDs as well.
That short video I posted clearly shows almost every one of those randomly filmed 4WDs spinning their wheels as they reached the far crest.
Some people have no regard to the country that they are in.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Hi Gordon,
A few years back we crossed going west on the day after seasonal opening. There were no significant scallops. All had filled due to wind during the closure. It was a dream to drive. A few gentle hollows with softish sand maybe but otherwise OK.
On our return crossing some weeks later going east it was as bad as ever. Does that suggest anything?

Over the years I have traversed the Desert on every track and in every direction with nearly double the amount of crossings as Allan B and I can sure say the wind plays a big part on track conditions.

Idiots with way too high tyre pressures along with first timers who have no understanding of sand driving play a bigger part.

Hardest crossing was east to west before they started closing the Desert over the summer months - stinking hot with the driest softest sand and only managed to travel 60 k's a day for the first three days with ten hours driving each day. Overloaded vehicles didn't help our cause !

Cheers
Gazz

Ten crossings was quite enough for me Gazz. I saw them as the shortest route to the Western Deserts but did enjoy some of the the crossings, especially the nights under the stars. But did not enjoy the lurching over the damaged dune faces. The Stratossuspension seats alleviated it a bit but the forward/backward lurching was hard to tolerate. I cursed the idiots I saw flying up the dunes under full power.

Howdy Allan

I've only ever driven a Troopy twice - the first AND the last time lol.
Don't think the Stratos seats would have changed my mind but well done on your ten crossings !

For ten years (part time) I had an outback tour company specialising in 4wd/Motorcycle tours and the Simpson was my specialty. Nearly all of my trips were done in a 1988 GQ Patrol tray top and a 1992 GQ Patrol wagon. Not all trips went to plan - had the Flying Doctor rescue a young bloke who cracked his neck one year after coming off his bike, really good rider but with five minutes before we pulled up for the night he had a lapse in concentration while looking at the scenery and went over the bars. Nine hours the poor bloke laid there with our aid before the ambulance got there from Oodnadatta along with the local Copper. Luckily he's alright now !

"I cursed the idiots I saw flying up the dunes under full power."

Yep - I've helped, rescued and recovered a few of them over the years !

It's been quite a while since I've done the desert but it sure would be a great place to be in a few months after the rain when it opens up and YES, those nights under the stars are amazing !


All the best
Gazz

Yes Allan it does suggest something to me. I've seen exactly what you describe left like that after wind and rain. If a little rain fell on it & it dries out would that not suggest that by driving over the surface you break the skin @ then the wind can do as it wishes. Of course I would suggest it depends on the direction of the wind. I know what I saw. AS I said the wind was blowing down the swale & across the track .

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Hi Gordon, I hope you don't misunderstand me….. I'm sure you witnessed the sand movement with wind but what I was saying is that the normal wind action is to remove sand from the surface and deposit it in holes leaving the surface generally smooth. That is how the dunes were formed and are regularly re-formed. Sometimes the wind will gouge holes, generally at the side of the track, but they are always located adjacent to where the track has been formed into a cutting due to vehicle movement and the wind has swirled. Put a wheel in one of them and you may finish up on your side! In earlier years on the Madigan Track it was difficult to identify the track at season opening due to the wind levelling everything out during the closure but with increased traffic that may no longer be such a problem.

I spent years living and working in the desert areas of Woomera and the gas fields of the Cooper Basin and had the opportunity to observe this behaviour of sand and wind repeatedly. It was sometimes difficult to locate the requisite track after a short period of no traffic. The little rain we had in those areas seemed to have no effect on the dunes and sandy zones but did somewhat reduce the corrugations a bit on some clay tracks.
Be assured, the gouging on the dune faces is created by vehicle action alone, it is the wind that ultimately repairs them…… and possibly any rain would help consolidate the sand blown into holes and depressions.

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G'day Gazz,
What did you have against the Troopy? I loved the bloody thing. It took me everywhere I wished to go and when it broke something it was easy to repair.
But as for the suspension seats, our first trip over the Simpson caused such grief to Roz's back that if I did not find a solution it would be the last trip! Fortunately the Stratos suspension seats did the trick.

But what this about escorting motorcycle tours? Was it possibly you that I encountered crossing the Simpson with four customers about 15 years ago? We had a chat with the lead biker at the Eyre Creek bypass crossing and he admired Roz's 4WD handling as he impatiently waited for the escort vehicle to catch up. Said to Roz that next time he is looking for a support driver "she was it". ( It was true, she was good). Anyway, on our return trip some weeks later, we learned at Mt Dare that two of the riders checked out halfway across and evacuated back to Birdsville and that the support vehicle had put a wheel in a blowhole and went on its side necessitating recovery. Not a good tour, that one!!!

For sure, these rains will produce brilliant wildflowers in the Outback. I grieve that I am now unable to get out there to see them. People have said to me that the deserts are so boring. Nah, it is the suburbs that are boring.

G'day Allan

I know Troopy's are tough reliable vehicles but I just found it like driving and old truck, especially after having the GQ Patrol. Had similar issues with my wife's back and she said if I don't get a more comfortable vehicle she won't be coming with me on any of my trips - kept the Patrol for fifteen years lol !

I now have a 200 series with upgraded suspension and the wife loves it as she no longer needs to wear sports bras when we head away !

Wasn't me you encountered at Eyre Creek as I stopped doing tours about twenty years ago.


Take care
All the best

Gazz

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Could have been 20 years ago Bazz but if it was you then you would have remembered the incident.
I guess there were a number of bike tagalongs operating. Cannot imagine the pain of 600km of dunes riding in the stirrups.
I always had a fear of encountering a biker breaching the dune in front of me. They didn't, and probably could not, carry a dune flag.

Wow, Peter, now that is an interesting set up. Was the trailer an ex military trailer? Interesting that it had a drive shaft. I can see it had a universal joint, but how well did it articulate going around corners or up an down hills etc.

Macca.

No idea how good it was or its history. I never saw the owner.
I have heard of the technique previously, but never seen one before.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Found this one...... scroll down to the video....
I am sure there have been others.
https://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/hybrid-driven-axle-trailer.35015/page-2
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome