Toyota Front Diffs

Submitted: Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:14
ThreadID: 15367 Views:2022 Replies:13 FollowUps:19
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Why is it that, after having 14 years to fix the problem, Toyota still produce front diffs (in both 100 and 120 series) that seem to break so easily in fairly basic offroad situations?
Nissan have rightly copped a hammering for the 3.0 failures but they made comprehensive changes after 6 months.
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:17

Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:17
Never heard about this must be a first.

What do the dealers say.
"This has never happened before, your the first"
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:50

Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:50
Its not 'news', its an issue that has been round for many moons..

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:54

Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:54
Mate never heard about this must be a first.

Never heard about this problem with 3 L Nissan's either.
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:19

Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:19
Toyota tough (luck)
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:28

Friday, Aug 06, 2004 at 23:28
So come on tell the story
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Reply By: Phil G - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 00:08

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 00:08
Don't forget the "unbreakable" hilux!!! They can break diffs too.
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Reply By: Member - Brett H (QLD) - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 08:45

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 08:45
If sales dropped off because of the prob hey would fix it. We are all used to it and accept it so , I guess, Toyota may have stared us all down.
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Reply By: Member Eric - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 09:42

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 09:42
Sorry guys im lost ... What diff problem ? is there a common problem I havent heard of ?
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Follow Up By: Wil - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 10:25

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 10:25
Hey Eric
Like what truckster said, it has been around for a while & seems like the 100 series was the one with the problem. 120 is too new to say for now. 80 & 70 series are OK by the looks.
Enjoy.. :)

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Follow Up By: Member - George (WA) - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 13:05

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 13:05
My 80 Series, now13 years old and 440,000 Km on, never had a problem except the diffs are starting whine a bit, due to normal wear i guess. Have never treated my car kindly and really give it a hammering during off road trips
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Follow Up By: Member - Brett H (QLD) - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 15:25

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 15:25
George, your diffs must be related to my pommy wife...
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Reply By: Outnabout David (SA) - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 10:07

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 10:07
Andrew,

I think you have the models mixed up. The 120 Prado has a bigger diff than the model it replaced.
It would be interesting to see how many diffs, engines etc that are replaced due to a "weakness/design fault" Vs the amount of vehicles sold.
I think that might tell a different story but if the figures were available that showed failures per vehicle used off road we would get a vastly different set of figures.

To the greater majority of 4wd users their vehicles will be more than adequate for what they do and they will probably never here of a problem let alone hear of one.

We only here of them because we " move in different circles"

Lets face it every, car, commercial,4wd has a "problem" , somewhere at some time.
Lets hope it is not ours.
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 12:03

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 12:03
Andrew,

Never had a toyota front diff problem, other than normal wear, until the 2000 model 79 series. They were real "dogs", and heard of numerous front diff, and steering problems. Fair few gearboxes in this model didn't last too well. Rang the Mt Isa dealer, "How's that tojo of mine going, with the g'box repairs" Answer: "Which one, mate, we've got 3 in here at the moment"

Few 79 series Turbo's have done front diffs here in west Qld, over the past 2 years.

Where's the 14 years come from?

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Reply By: GO_OFFROAD - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 12:26

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 12:26
another urban myth perhaps, 14 years worth of an issue that is caused by stupidity and driver error, more than anything.

And it is an easy fix also, a front air locker with the carrier design they have, and a solid pinion spacer, and they are still succeptable to abuse by people who dont know better, but they certainly arent a weak point with those mods.

I ran a 300hp @ the wheels and 520nm @ the wheels 80 with lockers, 36" swampers, 80 series turbo petrol for afew years, with these mods and didnt break a front diff, doing winch challenges, 4wd events, rallies, etc etc, but I never snatched anyone backward, never tried to 4wd anything backward, never tried to tow anything heavy backward uphill, and never gave the car stick with tyres on the lock, and never broke a cv either.....

My 2000 model 78 series troopy with same diff as 100, running 36" swampers on 16x10" rims never broke either, and I never modded that front diff, it was standard, and it did every track in the high country while I had it, winter, summer, loaded, unloaded, snow, rocks, but then maybe I was just lucky...........;-)))
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 21:22

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 21:22
MMmm
U wer jus luky u bought a 1fz and not a bearing chewing diseasal :-)
Andrew
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 22:49

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 22:49
well the big end issue was pre 95 1hdt's, that would of been 75 series, not 78 series.....;-)
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Follow Up By: Andrew - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:19

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:19
thats right, pre 95 was the big ends.
post 95 it was the cranks that let go wasnt it?
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:28

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:28
was no 1hdt engine after 95, only the 1hdft, which didnt have the issues you are mentioning?

Another internet urban myth being created Andrew?
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Follow Up By: Davoe - Monday, Aug 09, 2004 at 17:25

Monday, Aug 09, 2004 at 17:25
driven more 75s and 78s than I can count (only have 20 fingures and toes) and I have NEVER had a diff big end or bearing go - let those that drive them judge them
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Reply By: Frankenstein - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 19:24

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 19:24
The LandCruiser club of Victoria had a particular hill on their property that would take out the front diff on an 80 series rather frequently. They complained to Toyota who didn't believe them so they tried it in a brand new 80 series.. and broke the front diff. The hill was steep and had a diagonal hump across it, this would allow two diagonal wheels to lift and the vehicle to accelerate forward under gravity. Once the wheels connected with the ground again there was usually enough momentum to break the diff. This appeared to only applied to non diff lock vehicles. TLCV had the hump bulldozed out to prevent further damage.
The Turbo Diesel Prado has enough torque to break its front diff / CV joint a bit more often than most users would like too.

Just my $0.02 worth
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 22:53

Saturday, Aug 07, 2004 at 22:53
If what you say is correct, that is driver error, more than design, why would you be revvign the car in gear if gravity was helping the car, and why would the td prado supposedly break, unless the driver was holding the engine at max torque while shock loading the drive train?

Like I said, drivers break cars, .....
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Follow Up By: Member - Ivan (ACT) - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 11:20

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 11:20
Hey big fella,

Got an idea there is something to this 100 series front diff issue - pretty sure Craig (Crackles) has done three of them in his 105..

I've also seen his description of how it is caused in a post somewhere (I think on LCOOL lists...)

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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 13:21

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 13:21
Dont worry, it is easy to diagnose what causes it.

do they break, yes
can they be strengthened, yes
do people do silly things to break some of them, From what I have seen, read, and viewed, YES!!!!! ;-)
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Reply By: Bilbo - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 00:14

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 00:14
The Yota front diff problem has long history on this forum. Just skim back a few pages.

Drivers shouldn't be able to break cars. The manufacturers just build crap into 'em. I own a 100 series and the diff stories scare me a bit. It's not right when ya spend a heap of hard earned. I still have my old Ford Maverick and still haven't broken anything on it - and I've tried real hard. Please God make truck with a Yota diesel motor and a Nissan drive line.

Bilbo
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Reply By: schevchenko - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:07

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:07
I have never measured, but driving behind any cruiser and then a patrol is very revealing. Side by side the yota diffs and axles look positively anorexic. they just don't seem to have any meat in them. And anyone who's tried to take out a Patrol gearbox (some learned the real hard way) knows there's a HUGE difference in size and weight. These are the only things putting me off considering a troopy actually.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:32

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:32
You wont get a better gearbox than the current troopy box, great 4wd ratio's 3 oil pumps, oil pump in transfer case and a 2.488:1 low range, great box, very strong, and only need bearings[$600 aprox] if ever pulled down.

The front diff is smaller, to reduce unsprung weight, and improve road handling, an ARB locker and solid pinion spacer works well, and the rear with ARB locker is also pretty much unbreakable for those who understand mechanical sympathy, not hamfisted "it should do it its a 4wd" attitude.....
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Follow Up By: schevchenko - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:45

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:45
Go offroad - How does the 78 troopy ride? also how does the turbo diesel go? isn't it the same as 100 turbo minus intercooler? very diff from 1hz? have you had any clearence probs with the rear leaf mounting hanging lowish? any more info on this truck would be useful for me.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:53

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 16:53
The 78 rides ok, needs a stiffer shock in the rear to prevent it "leaning" I ran GQ valving in extra long shock body on the rear and GQ front body shock, all from Koni, valved to suit 78, worked really well.

The 1hdfte is non intercooled, but Cooma Diesel Services make one for it, and a dtronic certainly perks them up, no comparison to a 1hzzzzzz

Had no clearance issues with the spring mounts really, I had to space front sway bar down 20mm to run the longer shock in the front, but I ran 36" swampers on 10" rims, and fitted rear bumpstops to the front, and did a 10mm body lift along with castor correction bushes in the rear of the front arms to move the diff forward 14mm, to help with tyre clearance.

The car was great off road, 180 lt fuel standard, good gear ratio's, and could fit everything in.
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Follow Up By: schevchenko - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 17:10

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 17:10
what about track width..did you need arch flares? how wide before insurance probs?
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 17:56

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 17:56
needed the factory flares the RV has, and an engineers report for the wheels, but can run 8" 100 series gxl rims, or alloys.
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Reply By: W from Jerilderie Motors Pty Ltd - Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 22:11

Sunday, Aug 08, 2004 at 22:11
No doubt it would be driver error & not Toyotas fault as GO_OFFROAD testifies, he is GOD to Toyota so who would dare doubt him,
they have John Laws & his helper/adviser, just maybe GO_OFFROAD is that guy!
I just hope The Captain Nissan supporter reads this thread
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Aug 09, 2004 at 11:09

Monday, Aug 09, 2004 at 11:09
Hi W,

I have been following this thread, but its just another bait - this time on Toyota's. I used to have an 80 series with this "toublesome" diff, but I had a loka in it and never had a problem. I liked my old 80 series, rekon it was a great vehicle. I also like my GU, it too is a great vehicle.

Anyone who thinks any vehicle has no faults has got their head buried in the sand. There is not a vehicle made that is "perfect" or even head and shoulders above the rest.

I like the ages old, ongoing debate about nissans and toyotas. Bottom line is, both are great vehicles. Usually owners are so busy debating who got up the hill the easist they forget that BOTH of them are on top of the hill!

Bottom line is, one has to be happy with their own vehicle, warts and all.

Cheers

Captain

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