Patrol 3Litre turbo

Hear Hear Captain...

Captain is right, series II is probally something I would steer well clear of, series III is ok, if you can extend the warranty I would personally as they have a habbit of needing new EGR valves and air flow sensors that can be quite a few hundred dollars. Look, they are not my cup of tea to be perfectly honest, I drive one for work, however they certainally are one of the most popular trucks out there at the moment. And who knows, when they are a dime a dozen I might be persuaded (When the surf falls apart like the blues mobile and the end of the movie). LOL.

My budget will only stretch to the 30k - 35k range ,series II is in this area I think. Might have to go the 2.8, won't be doing much heavy work with it, have seen a few around the low 30k, with under 100k km on the clock.
Will be my first 4x4, very hard to decide on a good reliable vehicle.

Dave

With a 30-35K budget, should definetley be able to get into an DX series III 3.0TD, even an ST with a few kays. Drive a 3.0TD then a 2.8TD and see just how much difference there is between the two motors. IMHO its worth stretching the budget, but thats the hard decisions one has to make.

Cheers

Captain

Yeah once the 3.0TD has been around a few more years and all the fixes and problems are well known, the 2.8's value will plumit as it was not real popular and they are gutless, even the owners of them agree with the lack of power.

What Captain said.....

Josh

Hi Captain

I received an email from Will this morning containing a post you placed on this forum. I am the person to whom Will was refering to re the replacement 3.0 lt TD. New engine No as follows: ZD30-159609E. Can you elaberate as to what the extra sensors and modified oil feed system actually are? By this I mean definite nissan info not hear say and word of mouth. You mentioned a Nissan blurp or (blurb) at some time listing 23 (or 27) "major" changes to the series 3 engine. When was this document issued and can I obtain a copy of it? You mention you can not get any first hand info from Nissan. Where did you get the Nissan Blurb from? What evidence do you have that a recall was done in Europe apart from roumours etc, I can find no proof that this event ever took place. When I questioned the head mechanic of probably the largest Nissan dealership in the district, he informed me that Nissan Aust. will not tell them ??? He and I are mates ie no reason to lie. He also informs me that it was only necessary to change a small section of the wiring loom and computers on the very early motors 1999 etc and that this requirement was not needed on motors fitted after mid 2000 etc.I have written to Nissan Aust. 3 times in an attempt to ellicit information as to whether technical changes were made to the engine to prevent piston failure in the future. So far they have refused to answer the question. Please NOTE I am not insisting they provide full details, just whether or not changes were made to alleviate the piston failure problem. I have begun procedures with the Ombudsman and consumer affairs to uphold my wright to Know whether the product for which I paid approx., $43,000 for is of merchantable quality or not, let alone fit for purpose.

I have also fitted an N type thermocouple in the exhaust manifold just in front of the turbine to measure EGT. I am getting some very interesting figures considering the max temp at this point should be no more than 704 Deg C. No bloody wonder the pistons fail. To finish I would also like to mention a friend of mine who purchased a new 3.0 ltr TD to pull a fairly large caravan. Has done 20,000 klm and is now experiencing cold starting problems. this is the only real sympton my vehicle displayed prior to failure. He is off for a compression test.
Also several Navara engines have been replaced by the same dealership that replaced my engine. most of these vehicles were used for work purposes etc. It would seem that if you load this engine and use for anything other than a people mover you will experience high combustion temps in access of 760 Deg C which will cause cumlative damage resulting in erosion of the piston tops, lowering compression etc until finally the piston cracks. At this point in time my advice to all Nissan 3.0 litre owners is drive it like a girl you should be OK

Cheers and best wishes
Alan

Hi Will,

Just a few questions ah ;-)

First of all, your engine number is ~9,500 higher than mine so one can safely assume its a new engine, not a reconditioned one. As for "definite nissan info not hear say and word of mouth", this is the problem, Nissan simply do not give out info and one has to rely on what they see, read and hear. Then one has to place value judgements on the reliability of the info. The same way you will have to on this info!

As for the recall in Europe, I read that on many forums and heard from many people who I consider reliable. But definitive proof could probably be sought by tracking down the relevant govt transport website and look for a recall notice.

As for the wiring loom change, this does make sense. I am sure Nissan would have made some changes to motors post mid 2000 as this was when the sump increase (dipstick change!) was done. Thus new Aussie vehicles post mid 2000 would probably have received ECU mods with extra sensors to try and improve reliability (my guess is limit fuel load if engine temp exceeds a certain limit). Other changes that I have heard about (not from Nissan) include larger oil galleries, more/increased piston oil sprays, dual oil pump pickups, extra sensors etc... While I believe this to be the case, it is not confirmed from Nissan sources.

As for 704 C exhaust temp, this is not that hot IMHO, especially compared to petrol engine exhausts, they can be considerably hotter (like 850+C). The holed pistons are caused by excess temp, but the extra oil sprays should have a significant impact on this. Exhaust gas temp alone is not a true indication of piston temp. Oil temp plays a big factor here, particularly when oil sprays are used to cool pistons.

Speaking of oil, I believe this to be a contributor to some of the failed motors. Nissan specifically states to use CF4 oil and NOT CG4. The reason behind this is that CG4, even though a "higher" spec, has a lower ash (detergent) content. If the higher spec CG4 was used, this could lead to high oil gallery deposits due to the lower ash content. Add to this that the Aussie spec for diesel was 1,500ppm sulphur content at the time while Europe had 50ppm, then you can start to see some of the problems being faced.

CG4 oil is not that easy to come by (go check your local servo or even auto shop and see if you can find any!!!), all local stock is typically a higher grade. Synlube (an advertiser on this forum) specially formulated an oil to specifically meet the grade Nissan 3.0TD's require as it simply is not readily available.

Australia now has a 500ppm max sulphur content and this lowers to 50ppm by 2006. It is this reason why we are starting to see high performance diesels become available in Australia, the dirty Aussie diesel simply did not allow for the high tech engines. I only fill up at Shell or BP as these outlets offer low sulphur (<50ppm) diesel already.

While the 3.0TD has a specified oil interval of 10,000kms, I religiously change my oil every 5,000kms. It is perhaps the cheapest insurance for long engine life one can get. I would recommend you do this on your new engine. And do NOT use CG4 either!!!

As for a compression test a sign of engine failure, I do not believe this will show anything for the type of failure of the series II engine (just my opinion - not fact). Even if a piston has minor pock marks from excess temp, a compression test would never show this up.

I tow my van (1.6T) and have also done 22,000. It also gets a good workout as a offroad 4WD and is driven hard (between use as a daily commutor). I do not beileve the series III engine has any of the problems the series II had. However, it is still prone to sensor failures (airflow) and EGR valve failure, but not any more than other vehicles with these parts.

The 3.0TD engine has got a bad reputation but I do believe this is not warranted for the series III. There are many examples around with over 200,000kms with no issues at all. In fact I have yet to hear of one series III failure from the OWNER (not the sisters brothers uncles mate!!!), unlike the series II who I have heard form many owners (like yourself).

While engine failure of series II is high, as a percentage of vehicles sold its low (~10% according to a poll on another forum, but thats FAR from accurate as disgruntled owners are more likely to seek out the forum). But engine faiulure should be less than 0.0% at the age they are going so their is no question something is not right.

So, my opinion is that Nissan got caught out introducing a high tech engine while Australia still had poor quality diesel (plus simply poor design for high ambient temp climate amongst other things). While I believe they have gotten on top of the problem now, there is still the legacy of the series II 3.0TD's out there. Nissan currently replace them out of warranty now, but for how long? And at what cost to their customer base due to disgrunteld series II owners!!!

Cheers

Captain

Better still Truckster, bring it to my place. I'll take that evil 3.0 off your hands :-)

Utemad

Truckster,

I think you are way over reacting.

Leroy

What WAS the date that Nissan sorted out the problem with the 3.0L Engine??
LOL Flash, you did not answer the "question" either!
But you may note at the end of the question it did ask for general comments...

Flash,
I too own a 4.2L and acknowledge that the 3L is a bloody good truck (if it keeps on keeping on). I know a few blokes who have them and touch wood, none has had any problems...except one, who owns a series II (June 2000 build) who had a fuel pump quit on him.
I prefer the 4.2L cos I'm nearly 50 and don't like trucks that rely on any sort of computer cos i fear what might happen when I'm a long way from home and a chip goes "phyyyssstt". For the same reason, i would not buy any other electronic injection etc etc truck.
Now to try and answer the original question..... the Series III is the one that has been going okay and it can be recognised by the newer style tail lights; including a reversing light on both sides. the seriesII is the one that people have had issues with and the right side tail light is totally red (blank). The 2.8L is (IMHO) a total waste of money. It does not have the same STRONG running gear as the 3.0L or the 4.2L
Like Truckster, I wouldn't have a 3.0L if it was given to me (I'd trade it in on a 4.2) but I accept that it is an excellent truck for some people and I'm not actually trying to slag off on it.

Resale is obvious,
the 3.0 patrol is the cheapest entry level full size wagon, and when they depreciate, they become cheaper again, and there is always alot more people who would spend less to get what they percieve as the same thing.

thats why resale is expresed in %, and not total $ dropped.
like i listed, the big patrol and cruiser (regardless of models) are about the same % anyway, the market stating they will spend similar % of original price on ALL, once used.
Yeh - we all know 50% of a million bucks is more '$' than 50% of 100 bucks - so what.

hyundai 'Can of Terror' - 58%
cherokee - 56%
ford explorer 56%

all cheaper than entry patrol or cruiser.

well said

Yeah well said again. Good to hear some sense. I'm a very happy owner of a 2000 GU11. Yeah I know, only 80K so far, but it's serviced regularly and only ever by the original dealer. Spent $900 and took out the extended warranty. Good value when you consider that a major service (every 40K) costs $850-$900. Fantastic truck. Done everything asked of it.

well I can say the 3.0 that have come out with me have not been reliable, have not gone where others have gone, and have been headaches to get fixed under warranty, and even then cost the owners $$$ for items not covered by warranty.

Who would want to buy a 4wd and have those issues?

I know I wouldnt.

How about some examples of what has been unreliable and what places they could not go that others did. Are your examples recent, or dredging out old stuff from way back when?

Are we also comparing apples with apples here (within reasonable bounds)? That is, the Patrols being equally equipped and with equally competent drivers as for the other vehicles.

Glad you asked ;-)

Comparing apples with apples, similar tyres, [centipedes, swampers,] all experienced in similar conditions, on steep slippery hills where i have had to drive back down to recover 3.0 pootrols which have been unable to hold the gear required to a/ clean the tyres b/ carry the momentum required to get up the hill. [some other brands made one hill with mud terrains fitted]

Truckster, you remember that day :-)

Also in trying to do so in some conditions the 3.0 has cooked the clutch, which see's a very expensive flywheel you cant machine [and keep warranty on] become a problem.

Some of these 3.0 patrols have also had issues numourous times with the A/C and A/C idler pulley bearings, the fan hub bearings and alt bearings when putting the car in water, which combined are over $1000 worth of parts nissan wouldnt warranty, [a couple I know of doing this 3 times under 100,000km] even though some of them are below the fording depth of 700mm nissan says the vehicle is capable of.

Combine this with the engine vibration issue the oil filled flywheel is supposed to try and eliminate, which causes the issue of 5th gear losing its teeth off the main shaft [10mm longer spline contact wont stop vibration, but will get the problem past warranty]

Now, we also include the piston issue, which I think everyone admits to being an issue on the series 2 patrol, and is showing up in series 3 and navara [regardless of what captain says about not seeing one in WA, they are out there]

On top of these issues to date is the cracked steel rims on these models which have appeared, been fixed, when found, but havent been recalled.
[hence the coil cab rim design with smaller holes, and more steel]

Also the series 2 especially, when fitted with aftermarket tyres, can quite often produce a pulling to one side issue, which requires a spacer behind the control arm where it meets the chassis to rectify when completing a wheel alignment. [have had to do this to afew myself]

Now another problem that has shown with the patrol is front air and cooling design, which ARB and others have seen create overheating issues when trying to fit a highmount winch and bar to these models.

I will save the rest for the next reply ;-)

Just the one trip as an example and they were all 3.0lt Patrols? Since they were drivers experienced in similar conditions, does this mean that they had only just bought the Patrols and were just getting used to them, or were they long-term owners not really used to the conditions after all? And a clutch being cooked? I've seen people cook the clutch on their TD Cruiser, and others, when they simply don't know when to give up. 3.0 lt Patrols aren't on their Pat Malone here.

Your examples of aircon pulley failures, alt bearing, wheels etc sound like old stories being dredged up once again. Reminds me of examples that Roly put up way back when. But I can give examples of 3.0 lt Patrols that have done all of the above for many years without any problems.

Every Patrol of mine has had pulling to the side and it's not limited to Patrols either. It's especially an issue with solid axle 4WDs (due to the camber of our roads and often exacerbated by lifted suspensions), hence the market for shim-aligns etc that go back over 20 years. But I'd still rather suffer that, than an independent front end.

Finally, the Patrol was specifically designed to take a low mount winch. How many really give a rats that they can't fit a high mount? Those that do are likely getting into far more serious stuff than the average Joe and will find workarounds. So it's a bit farfetched to say this is a problem with the Patrol. It's like saying that stock Patrol's have a problem in that they don't take kindly to the fitting of 35"+ tyres, but there are those that do this and accept the workarounds.

I went on a club trip a couple of weeks ago and the 3.0 Patrols went everywhere the big boys went. Only problem I saw was that the standard suspension ones dragged their bum. When this happened they popped their bumper tail lights out.

Our work F250s have had multiple wheel alignments and various steering parts replaced or added or whatever and they still pull left. Not as bad when we first got them but still do all the same.

Utemad

Go Offroad - that hiddeous list of faults - and still class leading resale!
either way -
ITS A MIRACLE OF THE MODERN MOTORING WORLD! - that a car that bad can be so saught after.

the cheapest option is always sought after....... because it fits into so many more peoples budgets.

And nissanofold, regardless of age, timing, drivers, or what ever other excuse you would like to table, it still happened, and more than once, to more than one car, I think that says enough.

I certainly dont need to justify my purchase ;-)

ah well, at least the landrover owners can crack a smile

I fail to see what the price people pay for their 4WD has got to do with anything. I seem to recollect you making similar statements previously and it almost seems that you're alluding that because someone doesn't want to buy a Toyota, that they are financially destitute and somehow inferior to those that do.

Bringing up issues that are literarily years old, that happened to a small percentage of owners and something you rarely, if ever, hear about any more is hardly a sustainable argument against the Patrol.

You're really clutching at straws here and it seems that you are basing your case simply on personal bias. Be happy with the 4WD you have and tell everyone how you enjoy it, rather than taking every possible opportunity to bag those who own and are happy with their Patrol.

You obviously do not understand marketing, if you dont see what price has to do with anything.......

And you seem to be confused between personal bias, and personal experience, track record is all I have to go by, and as the archives of ths forum, or any forum for that matter will show, the vehicle mentioned in particular is an issue, and its owners defend what they could afford, compared to those who bought what they wanted.

Nissan Toyota Nissan Toyota Nissan Toyota honestly who gives ableep?

Buy what you can afford or want or whatever and just get out there and enjoy it!

Utemad

who gives a bleep???

You must, to want to of commented on it, or you wouldnt of bothered.

I do think this thread has been more nissan than toyota though ;-)

I'll pay that GO_OFFROAD ;-)

Utemad

Go_Offroad positively spits on those who buy a 3.0lt Patrol. But imagine the bile that must rise in his throat when he sees someone with an even cheaper 4WD. What angst he must endure when he sees a DX 4.2lt Patrol, a base model Prado or Cruiser or, shudder, an even cheaper 4WD.

The 'track record' is beginning to sound like a broken record, with all the old scratched 78s he keeps bringing out.

Well oldnissan, you call it as you see it, just as I do, as we are all entitled to our opinion, and as I recall, you actually asked for details from me in this thread, sorry it wasnt what you wanted to hear, but thats the joy of public forums with unmoderated input, we get free speech, and everyones opinion, and experience, not to mention the odd baited hook thrown out....;-)

Think I have a toadie on here, time to chuck it back, and try some better bait, to catch a better fish 8-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Chortle! You seem to use that term of phrase, or similar, all the time when you find that the barbs are not really taking hold and just an empty hook keeps coming out of the water.

A debate undertaken with passion and backed by facts and sound logic is a joy to hear, but one that debases itself to mere name calling and insults is quite sad.

A hollow vessel usually makes a lot of noise, so one does wonder why you have such a penchant for bagging Nissans (not just the 3.0lt), and not even being an owner at that.

I think that last reply, along with the rest shows the hook isnt empty 8-)))

Oh? I see! So what you are really doing is saying that the 3.0lt Patrol is really a very good vehicle, but you're simply attempting to wind up those that have one by saying they are crap and having a good laugh at the responses.

That's a clever ploy, but you should be careful as to how often you deploy such a strategy, as it's likely to wear thin after a while and many may begin to think that you're a weird and disgruntled wanker for always harping on about the 3.0lt, never actually having owned one.

You have a true believer now in your midst and I may say (tongue in cheek you know) that the 3.0 Pootrol is such a crap vehicle. But we know better, don't we?

Damn rubbish fish, time to pull anchor and find another spot, I think this one is to close to the sewer outlet 8-)))

I know stuff all about Patrols but I thought I read something about the Navara having the 3 litre Patrols driveline. Not the other way around.

Utemad

The driveline is the same as for all the others, with whatever gearing variations each have. From memory the transmission is the same as for the 4.8lt.

Do we know what those numbers represent in 3.0 owners on the patrol list , compared to who have responded,

or in total sales?

Hmmmm! 93% of respondents to a survey say they're happy with the 3.0lt Patrol. But we know better, don't we? This is only the (Yahoo?) Patrol Group? What do they know, bloody Yahoos the lot of them!

No GO OFFROAD, dont have those stats, its just the people that have responded over the last 13 months.