1HD-T Big end finally let go!
Submitted: Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 10:12
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charlie
Hello forumites,
I now know first hand about the famous weak big end bearing in the early turbo diesel 80 series. I took the car in to get a rattling sound checked out with the mechanics thinking that it was probably a valve or injector problem. After checking all the more minor problems and for about $500 labour they took the sump off and discovered that it was in fact the good ald big end.
To complete the rest of the job it will cost around $2000 just to replace bearings and grind down the crank and get it back to running around town (and country hopefully).
Does this sound expensive for this type of job? And does anyone who has had this problem recently know if Toyota takes any responsibility anymore like they used to?
The car has been regularly serviced and has done 230, 000 kms. I know it is a lot to ask but considering the rest of the engine should double this distance if cared for properly, maybe?
In the proverbial,
Charlie
Reply By: Twigiee - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 18:00
Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 18:00
Charlie,
I recently bought an 80 series TD and it had (according to the previous owner) around 120k kms since last rebuild. I only finnished putting
mine (1hd-t) back together last tuesday. No 5 was badly pitted and scored, i presume from the pieces of bearing, all of the rest were pitted, but ok. i'd like to attach a photo for all to view- does anyone know how to do this?
I was quoted $1600 just to have the bearings replaced at toyota, so i'm not sure whether the figure of $ 400ish comes from. Trade price for the bearings were $32 each so $190 or so for all 6. Also a 'normal' toyota price for a new crank is $2700, but after explaining that i was aware of the problem with 1hd-t's the parts assistant said that this price can be negotiated. (I found that my 1hd-t had scores on the crank journel that could be felt by running my fingernail across the surface.)
I have noticed a 'big end' like knocking sound since i bought the vehicle, but think it may be the injector pump - since the bearing replacement hasn't helped. Any comments.
Twigiee
AnswerID:
74910
Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 18:04
Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 18:04
You use ACL, not genuine bearings, unless the toyota ones are ACL, about $80 a set, and better suited to the Aus conditions, oil etc.
FollowupID:
334757
Follow Up By: Twigiee - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 18:16
Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 18:16
ACL are an option, but i was concerned about getting the correct bearing clearances i.e toyota standard size bearings come in 3 slightly different sizes (not including undersizes) whereas the standard ACL's are only 'standard'. I preferred to put in the toyota ones, and not have problems with 'out of spec' bearing clearances and regrinding.
Wonder if anyone has installed ACL and had a chance to
check them at 80 - 100k kms after? - would be interesting.
FollowupID:
334759
Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 20:30
Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 20:30
I think most of the LCOOLers have the ACL, and many have done more km than you have mentioned.
FollowupID:
334766
Follow Up By: charlie - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 23:50
Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 23:50
Thanks Twigiee, I was given an explaination of either valvle clearance or injector probs. I was hoping for the best but hey life goes on if not the saving for the next big trip.
Charlie
FollowupID:
334792
Follow Up By: G.T. - Monday, Sep 06, 2004 at 17:01
Monday, Sep 06, 2004 at 17:01
To make sure that you have correct bearing clearances == use Plasticgauge. regards G.T.
FollowupID:
335111
Reply By: charlie - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 23:30
Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 23:30
Thanks guys, but the news gets worse. It took them a good part of the day to remove the motor and take out the crank. From here I am an absolute novice. The conrod bearings have been damaged and other damage has been caused so the bill looks like going north of $3,500. I find this hard to believe that 6-8km's of driving after first noticing the noise that all this damage could be done, but I could be wrong?
The mechanic who I know is sometimes on the expensive side has always been thourough and has appraised me of what is happening in all maintenance and repair jobs before doing any work and I feel is genuine. He even said that the repairs could be so expensive if done conclusively ie. pistons, rings etc. that a replacement motor may be an option, he sourced one for $5.500. He said he is pulling his hair out on this job because he didn't realise it may be this bad even with the big end failure at such an early stage with them doing all of the servicing after the waranted factory servicing.
I will try Tojo and hit them with all the maintenance that has been done on the car. Wish me luck.
Charlie
AnswerID:
74957
Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:35
Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:35
Work out how many million revolutions of the motor the crank would have done in 6 klms.
If a big end had gone, then thats a fair few turns of the crank! When racing bikes, I have stopped almost instantly from bearing failure and had to replace whole cranks. :(
Its a bugger, but
yea lots of damage can be done in no time.
Someone posted that complete exchange motors are $8grand I think, woild that be worth considering? That gets you a new head and block the works....
FollowupID:
334831
Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:39
Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:39
from another thread.
Justin posted about 1HZ Engine replacement to 1HD-T(FT) - (PostID: 15997)
Toyota currently have a special price program running but the turbo engines are not on the program. The 1HZ is though and he could get a brand new one for around $7,500 which is a couple of K off new price.
The engines are head to sump no exteranl hang on bits though.
FollowupID:
334832
Reply By: stitch - Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 00:55
Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 00:55
Charlie,
From what I understand Toyota used big end bearings from the factory assembly of early 1HD-T engines that were of a poor grade material. I had
mine replaced in April 2000 at 227000 km, cost $550 (Toyota
Taree). I am under the impression that the ones used to replace are of good materials and should last as long as normal big ends in equivalent vehicles. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard of replacing bearings every 100,000km to be safe. If the original bearings Toyota used were no good and you replace them with others, why would it be an ongoing problem?
AnswerID:
74963
Reply By: wet feet - Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 23:30
Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 23:30
Hi Charlie,
I also have a 1HDT but have only had for nine months. (Bearings done)
I have heard that the bearing material melts and in viscous form goes through oil galleries and then solidifies causing problems elsewhere. The crank is specially treated and up until Nov last year toyota were still saying they couldn't be ground.
if you do go the route of a rebuild be very careful. Most engine builders do petrol engines and apply the same tolerances. I looked at four rebuilt 1HDT's and only one was done properly.
I'm sorry about your misfortune.
Toyota should come to the party but......
For anybody else out there looking at 1 HDT's Toyota's customer service group has a listing of those vehicles done under warranty. All you need is the reg.
Mark
AnswerID:
75089
Reply By: Flash - Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 11:01
Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 11:01
Hope your final solution doesn't cost too much. You have my genuine sympathy.
Good luck with it all. A mate had the same problem and it cost him close to five grand- then he sold it six months later as there was no guarantee it would not happen again.
Gee it must come as a shock to the system to all the Nissan bashers out there that 'yotas have problems too. You won't hear of many Nissan TD42's with major probs with less than 400-600,000 klms. And I know of even a few EARLY 3.0 litre TD's with
well over 200,000 and NO PROBLEMS.... shock, horror!
I'm not sticking the boot in, rather pointing out that all brands have had their faults.
Cheers
AnswerID:
75119
Follow Up By: charlie - Sunday, Sep 05, 2004 at 11:26
Sunday, Sep 05, 2004 at 11:26
Thanks Flash but it looks like a rebuild is the only gauranteeable option this is going to cost $4600. This does not include injectors or turbo.
Wont be too many off roading trips in the near future for me. :(
FollowupID:
334987
Follow Up By: Davoe - Sunday, Sep 05, 2004 at 20:32
Sunday, Sep 05, 2004 at 20:32
Flash you might recall that the 80s 4.2 td was pulled from the market due to reliability concerns (not officiolly stated) not to return until recently. Nissan just keeps on selling those 3.0l. And it is interesting (and I do follow it) that when somebody bags the 3.0l on the
forum then 3.0l owners come back with how
well theirs runs HOWEVER I am yet to see any 3.0l owner with over 200k reply. most have under 80k
FollowupID:
335027