Injectors-How often to change?
Submitted: Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 14:52
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Boeing
Hi All, I have a 60 series cruiser (factory turbo) with 500K on the clock. It is blowing black smoke under load and I was looking at getting the injectors replaced and the fuel pump re set /checked. I have had the vehicle for about 6 years and have done 130K since then and the injectors have not been replaced whilst I have had it. Would it be fair to say that the injectors should be done every 100K?
Regards
Mark
Reply By: Stew53 - Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 16:40
Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 16:40
Boeing, black smoke means the engine is not getting enough air, before pulling the injectors and pump take the intake off the turbo and spin the turbo rotor to feel if it free, rule of thumb with earth moving equipment turbo's start to fail at around 5000 engine hours, when I installed a turbo at 40,000km on my 80 series I put an hour meter on it, when I sold the car after 200,000 km and 2222 hours I had averaged 72 km hr, the turbo was bought from
Toowoomba Turbo’s and they suggested that the turbo be rebuilt at 250,000 km. in your car 500,000km would equate to about 7000 hours.
What I am suggesting is that your turbo has been living on borrowed time.
If you find the turbo is tight to turn and does not spin freely get it rebuilt.
From my earth moving equipment experience and knowing the engine hours I was averaging in my 80 series 100,000km for injector changes works out to be 1300hrs, with earth moving equipment what we do is change the turbo and injectors at 5000hrs (360,000 km) then again at 10,000hrs (720,000km), the engine usually fails and requires a rebuild around the 15,000 hr time, what we have found is that we have prevented turbo failures but we have experienced more problems with poor workmanship of the rebuilt injectors and pumps, so they are left in place for the full life of the engine which would be an estimated 1 million km, ie if you have a good pump and injectors from new don’t touch them, look after them by ensuring that your fuel is clean, don’t overchange fuel filters as every time you change a filter some crap gets through, filters don’t start to be efficient until they get some build up on the element and block the larger pores of the element, every 25,000km or every 12 months is ok, drain the water out monthly or sooner if you suspect water in the fuel.
Diesels are great
Don’t be scared of em
Stew
AnswerID:
81444
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 16:49
Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 16:49
Sorry to nit pick, but not enough air in a diesel produces white smoke, black is unburnt fuel most probably from bad atomisation...
What ever you do, pay extra for a good job the first time....the injectewrs are tabled for 100'000km
services for good reason, the unburnt fuel will be glasing your cylinders, washing the oil film from them, and poluting your oil significantly.
Do the injecters first, if it is still getting good economy and power with them done, leave the pump, just do the filters AND Tappets.
Andrew
FollowupID:
340662
Follow Up By: Stew53 - Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 17:54
Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 17:54
Dozer, what colour smoke does a dozer blow when the filters are blocked, black, put new filters in and it comes good ie lack of air, same with the turbo if its not spinning up enough there will be a lack of air.
I've looked up my CAV smoke identification chart and for black smoke it ranges from fuel pump advance devices, injectors, blocked filters and lack of compression ie it could be any one of a number of things and its hard to diagnose without seeing the vehicle, what I was suggesting is simple
check to eliminate a possible cause of the smoke and not go straight to the fuel pump and injectors as they are very expensive to repair.
I've looked up my toyota books and they make no mention of injector
services at 100,000km
Stew
FollowupID:
340663
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 00:08
Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 00:08
Thats cool, it is good advice to
check the air filter b4 spending big bux, the reason your dozer book says air filter black smoke, is because it is a common thing for the filter to become restricted, and black will eminate from an overfuelled diesel (because of the reduced amount of air)
Andrew
FollowupID:
340706
Follow Up By: Flash - Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 08:16
Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 08:16
"Sorry to nit pick, but not enough air in a diesel produces"... BLACK SMOKE.
Many other things incl. poor spray pattern from burnt or worn injectors will also.
Best thing is to keep a log book AND watch your exhaust and how it starts.
When it deteoriates, consider doing the injectors.
Some people might get 100k out of injectors, some will get more than twice that (probably depends mostly on fuel quality/cleanliness). To do them at 100k just because you've done 100,000klms is throwing money down the drain.
One of my diesels (Patrol) has just had them done at 285,000 klms (after market fuel filtration -Frantz). My other diesel (isuzu) has closer to 140,000 and injectors are original- also has a Frantz fuel filter.
FollowupID:
340721
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 17:37
Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 17:37
Not enough air in a diesel causes overfueling, and that is what you see coming out as black smoke....unburnt fuel....not enough air means there is not enough for the fuel injected....the electronic diesels trim this, but the old reliables dont.
2 bob watches go forever, and when they stop u throw them and buy another. Good watches are worth servicing to keep them going...
Andrew
FollowupID:
340806
Reply By: fisho64 - Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 18:06
Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 at 18:06
Heres some more nitpicking!! Your both sort of rite but black smoke is unburnt fuel but can be for a multitude of reasons. A blocked air filter or failed or inefficient turbo can cause it as with the low boost it wont inhale a full pot of air, and is a similar effect to low compression. Worn nozzles/injectors will cause black smoke because of inefficient atomisation and the fuel is unable to burn completely. White smoke can be from the same thing but the main reason is insufficient combustion temperature and a common cause is the engine running too cold (thermostat?) hence white smoke on start up is not unusual in cold temps nor is a real prob when engine hasnt warmed up yet. Stew is spot on about one thing though, we all love to fiddle but if it aint broke and theres no reason to think it mite break, leave it alone. Before doing the turbo though start with the air filter and also
check your exhaust hasnt been squashed by a
rock ( though this will more likely cause white smoke) Look for the obvious and easy first!!
AnswerID:
81450
Reply By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 17:38
Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 17:38
Mark, did you notice a drop in economy with the smoke?
Is it harder to start now??
Have you been using thesame fuel source throughout???
Sometimes bad fuel is all that is needed to upset the apple cart.
Andrew
AnswerID:
81599
Follow Up By: Boeing - Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 21:02
Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 21:02
Hi Andrew, No the black smoke thing has been happening really since I got the vehicle but my mechanic told me it is due to the turbo. It has now got to the point that it is bothering me as I tow a mowing trailer which has just caused the problem to occur more often. The cruiser has had good power and fuel economy is about 12 litres per 100K around town which I believe is on the money. The problem is I don't know when the injectors were done. It is a great car and if replacing the injectors gives that little bit more power then that would be a bonus.
Regards
Mark
FollowupID:
340827
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 21:38
Monday, Oct 25, 2004 at 21:38
Evening Mark
I would start with a compression
check and crankcase blowby
check. If the compressions are ok, you can rule that out, if blow-by (the rings) is excessive, a motor refresh will be on the cards...she has done a fair amount of work...but these motors are renowned for living long lives...
did your mechanic
check the boost levels on your turbo to get to the prognosis??
Andrew
FollowupID:
340845