Snow chains - use in 4WDing?
Submitted: Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 14:13
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Mike Harding
I notice Super Cheap Auto have pairs of snow chains for $60 per pair and I am toying with the idea of buying one or two pairs as an aid to extracting myself from a mud or sand bogged situation. I don't have (and don't want) a proper winch but usually travel alone and normally rely on:
1 - Being careful not to get bogged - usually works :)
2 - Air jack, bottle jack, shovel etc.
3 - Small puller and extension straps.
Have others used chains in these situations and what are their opinions of them?
Thanks in advance,
Mike Harding
mike_harding@fastmail.fm
Reply By: flappan - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 14:35
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 14:35
I cant see any use in sand.
They will most definently assist in mud , but the downside is you will DEFINENTLY rip the place apart doing it.
Putting them on when bogged isn't practical , and putting them on before hand , means ripping the track up.
Bit of a catch 22 really.
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 15:46
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 15:46
The do work in mud and you tend to not rip the track up as much because you get better traction. Without the chains you find yourself spining the wheels flatout and not getting anywhere and tearing up the track more. Obviously if you didn't use them sensibly you could do a hell of a lot of damage to a track.
Leroy
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Follow Up By: flappan - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:09
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:09
Disagree.
the very nature of chains is to cut into the snow (like a paddle). You drive on dirt , it will also cut into the dirt and paddle it away, ripping it up.
We used them on the cars on the
farm for years (before 4wds were common) , and they most definently rip up the track more.
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:11
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:11
They'll definitely churn up the ground but to a lesser extent than having 20 attemps before finally getting up a
hill.
Leroy
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:17
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:17
I agree with Leroy on this one. Sure chains have the potential to rip up the track more. However if you use them sensibly you will get though a spot with very limited wheel spin. If you spin a wheel with chains on then you will do a heap of track damage. However the whole idea of chains is to get traction and drive out.
As has been said, you can do a heap of dmage to a track by have 56674748393 attempts at it and still getting nowhere.
Chains in sand would be useless.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:25
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:25
Leroy is right - spot on actually so the users say but get the diamond pattern chains not the straight across bar type. They are more expensive but a lot more value. As the chains bite in they don't spin so less digging up in comparison to mud tyres. The recovery truck that pulled Baz out duriong the early part of winter used chains to get a grip.
Chains will commonly get you through or out without using the winch.
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Follow Up By: flappan - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:29
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:29
How many times do you think you will drive through mud , deep enough or thick enough to warrant the use of chains , WITHOUT spinning wheels.
So by the very nature of chains and how they work , ie they dig in for traction , its digging a hole.
If you can drive through without spinning , then chances are you didn't need chains. Tyre pressure could have been sufficent.
Look , at the end of the day , its your choice to use them or not. Be careful how you use them , where you use them , and for how long you use them.
nuff from me.
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Follow Up By: flappan - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:33
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:33
No , ok ,
John has a point , which I admit , I didn't think about.
APPARENTLY (I haven't used them myself) the diamond chains ARE a lot more enviromentally friendly.
I would suggest though the Straight accross ones AREN'T , and for $60 that is what they would be.
IF , you were buying the diamond ones , I would probably agree
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Follow Up By: Utemad - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:48
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:48
How about a very slippery wet clay? It's only cms deep but even the best of mud tyres will have heaps of trouble as they just turn into clay donuts. Even a slight incline on this type of soil will give you heaps of trouble. This would be a very good situation to use them in.
If mud is deep and sloshy enoughy that even chains won't help you then I would imagine that you would do little damage. Before you shoot me for saying that just imagine a big mud pit. If you drive though it the sloshy mud just oozes back into place.
My opinion. Bye bye.
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Follow Up By: flappan - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:52
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 16:52
We'll just agree to disagree I think ;)
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 18:04
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 18:04
Chains wont help in every situation. They are just another item in the recovery arsenal and are ideal for the situation that utemad describes. We had to winch a vehicle up a slight incline in this sort of mud, we sent him down to suss out the track, dead end, turn around, no traction on a very very slight incline. If he was by himself with no winch or chains he would have been buggered.
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Reply By: Moose - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 15:04
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 15:04
Mike
I have to agree with flappan.
In sand what you want is floatation, not the ability to dig deeper. If bogged in sand air down to get out of it.
I'd hazzard a guess and say that you hadn't really thought too much about how you'll get the chains on once you're already stuck - sounds like a bloody difficult, dirty job to me. You wouldn't want to be driving one of those fancy new Nissans unless you had a handy cake of soap and heaps of water!
Would you really bother putting them on just in case when you see a muddy obstacle? Leaving them on when not required is just irresponsible due to the damage to the track.
I think their uses are fairly limited and, as the name suggests, they are really just for snow. Mind you I don't have any (not much snow up here in Qld) so I'm happy for others to correct me if I'm wrong.
Keep on being careful and keep that little puller handy!
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Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 15:33
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 15:33
Right on Mike
But watch the last line.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 15:48
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 15:48
Moose:
>I'd hazzard a guess and say that you hadn't really thought too
>much about how you'll get the chains on once you're already
>stuck - sounds like a bloody difficult, dirty job to me.
Oh yes I had! That's why I'm asking people here first :)
Dodger:
You leave my puller alone :) It got me unstuck last week.
Mike Harding
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Reply By: Jimmy's - Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 23:07
Friday, Nov 12, 2004 at 23:07
I think you all should have a look at this site
http://www.snoclaws.com/
They are made from rubber and are recomended for Mud, Sand and Snow
Very easy to install even when stuck by the look of them.
If you happen to buy a set let me know how they go my e-Mail address is jtb@2daloo.com I was looking at them about 12months ago when they wern't in production, now they are on the market.
Tis a very good site videos of product in action
well worth a look. I reckon this is just what you are looking for Mike.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Nov 13, 2004 at 07:10
Saturday, Nov 13, 2004 at 07:10
Thanks for that Jimmy. Certainly looks like a very interesting product. One concern I have is how
well they would stand up to some of the very rocky conditions we get in the
Vic High Country? I'll e-mail the manufactures and ask them.
Mike Harding
PS. Thanks to all who replied - some very interesting answers.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Nov 13, 2004 at 14:19
Saturday, Nov 13, 2004 at 14:19
And the very prompt reply from Snow Claws was that as long as the tyres hold up so will their product.
Worth getting some pricing I think.
Mike Harding
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Reply By: shaggy - Monday, Nov 15, 2004 at 17:50
Monday, Nov 15, 2004 at 17:50
I have two sets of konig diamonds 8 mm steel. Absolutely fantastic traction, and I have front and rear ARB lockers on the 80 series cruiser. The only thing is you never have them on when you get bogged and afterwards its too late. cannot fit them easily once bogged, it would be more work then unbogging your self with shovel or wiching out.
I paid something like $700 for four chains. they are 31-10.5-15 and now i have 33s so had to extend them by about 10 cm.
Would not go into the high country without them in snotty weather. Beats ANY tyre of any sort in mud. Cross slope grip is unbelievable, as the diamond pattern has sections that run along the tread lengthways and stop side sliding, whilst the rest of the chain gives you forward motion. Seems most of the replies talk about track damage, but it does not sound like many of the people replying have ever used quality chains. I can tell you from experience is that if youre deliberatly trying to do a burnout, that in soft earth, they will tear up the track, but if you are a sensible man then they will do far less damage then a set of muddies. I travel with people sometimes who have muddies and have compared the damage. Personally, I have ATs which let the chains sit on top of the tread rather then in it like it does with more open tread patterns. This gives more chain contact with road, so therefore you can have good road tyres, and good sand tyres, and when you really need the traction (ie cought in a blizzard or downpour in high country) you can still drive out on tyres that would otherwise have great difficulty.
So chains are deff worth it. if used correctly.
Cheers
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Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Tuesday, Nov 16, 2004 at 20:31
Tuesday, Nov 16, 2004 at 20:31
Having grown up in the high country in NE Vic, where my Dad worked in the Alpine Resorts I have seen the conditions where chains were required on 4wd vehicles on many occasions.
(Having said that Australians are forced to fit chains in conditions that Europeans and yanks would laugh at, but unlike the majority of Aussies they regularly experience driving in snow and ice.)
I ask you this. When the Hotham road is an inch thick of ice, and the saddles have a 60 knot cross wind and the chains are the only thing that are going to prevent you from doing a poor impression of Torville & Dean; do you want a crappy $60 Supercheap set that you never expected to use so you put them in there to save you $50 a year of hire charges, or a set of $300 Rud Ketten Diamonds protecting your family and your fourby?
If you choose the former I will happily come and pull you out of the wreck and cart you off to hospital, if you live. Decisions like that are job security for Paramedics and we get busier every year....
DJ
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