Problems with Frontera
Submitted: Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 23:24
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fronteragirl
Hi all just thought I would share this...
A couple of weeks ago I had a major problem with my 4WD it was barely able to make it up the
hill I live on so I took in early to the mechanic for a service his diagnosis was to get it to a Holden dealer quick smart to have it checked out as he felt it was a problem with low fuel pressure, and possibly the catalytic converter but wanted me to have it put on their computer to rule out anything else.
I did this within a couple of days and advised the team what my mechanic had already told me where upon the Holden dealer service team took off the exhaust system to
check it out they found no problem.
They then decided it must be the timing belt My car has done approx. 120,000 km's and they said it probably won't be the issue as it needs replacing at 160,000 I corrected them that it is actually 140,000 km's when it needs to be replaced, they asked how I knew this and I explained that is what it say's in the manual. They said "oh
well you didn't give us that" but they had not looked in the glove box for it. Any way they then told me it was not the timing belt at fault. Then they decided it must be the fuel injectors so the checked and cleaned them, but they were fine as
well. Then they decided to get another Frontera and do comparative tests with it and they came across a problem with my air con... I had 12 months ago had a whole new compressor replaced and the warrantee was due to expire that day so the company that did this work trucked it from the dealer to the work
shop and once fixed free of charged it was then returned to the dealer, but the problem existed.
By now it's been 10 days that have had my car and all of a sudden they decided to go back to square one and remove the exhaust again, where they discovered it was the exhaust after all and the catalytic converter that needed to be replaced as it was 90% blocked. I was quoted $1200.00 for a replacement genuine part or non for $360.00 I opted for the NGP I went to collect it the next day only to be told come back tomorrow and when doing that I was hit with a bill for $1680.00. They advised me they had to replace 2 Cat converters as the other was 50% blocked but I had not been told this at, they explained they didn't want me to have to come back after 6 months with the same problem but I replied I was only quoted for 1. They also replaced the spark plugs which had been done at the 100,000 km service as required and usually last for 100,000 km's as they are irridium.
I won't say just yet what I ended up paying for all of this but would love some feed back on weather you think that it is a fair amount? and if not what would you have been willing to pay ? and how you would have dealt with this situation.?
Reply By: Moz - Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 23:49
Monday, Dec 06, 2004 at 23:49
Hi fronteragirl,
As I understand it they replaced two cat convertors with non-gen units for
approx. $360 ea and a set of plugs at approx. $25-$30 ea.
Together with some labour, injector clean and diagnosis time $1680 is a bit rich.
I would begrudgingly pay for two cats, I say begrudgingly becauses they
didn't get your authority first on the 2nd cat. $720.00 + fitting, about $900.00.
I would have said yes if the asked me about the 2nd cat.
I would try to negotiate the injector clean, perhaps only pay the sublet cost
and not the labour to pull them out, about $150.00.
I would not pay for the plugs at all.
With the extras the total should be no more than $1200.00
Cheers Moz
AnswerID:
87549
Reply By: Savvas - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 09:27
Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 09:27
I'd agree with Moz.
Whatever work was unauthorised, you shouldn't have to pay for. I'd specifically refuse to pay for the plugs, and make sure that they charged for the non-OEM cats.
Fair enough that the 2nd cat was replaced, however you should have kicked up a scene at the dealership right at that point to show your displeasure at the fact that it wasn't authorised. After all, it's just a phone call for them.
The original spark plugs are not iridiums, they are platinum. And I'd suggest that they didn't put iridiums in either. Get your own mechanic to
check on that, it's fairly simple to do.
At the end, I probably would have settled on about $1200. This would include the cats, injector clean, and a component of labour. I'd refuse the plugs because I could do them myself. (Come to think of it, I might be able to replace the cats myself).
Out of curiosity though, how many hours labour did they charge you for?
AnswerID:
87581
Reply By: Member - rengatt (VIC) - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 13:19
Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 13:19
Hi fronteragirl,
I would have cracked the absolute #$%@ if they performed any unauthorised work on my Frontera.
Personally I would have refused to pay them for the additional work, but then would have apologised and paid because they probably would refuse to release the car unless the bill was paid.
I've got
mine going in for the recall work on the steering on Thursday, and they started with the sales line when I booked it in, do you want it serviced, do you want the brakes done.
You should take the time and write a few letters to the manager of the service department and any one alse higher above outlining what occured. It may not do any good but if enough of us complain when things like this happen it may prevewnt these issues.
Other than that you happy with the Frontera?
AnswerID:
87606
Reply By: Member - Bradley- Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 14:05
Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 14:05
I'm taking a punt that you are actually a female, because that is the first point they will try to rip you off, assuming you dont know anything etc...
slide under and
check if there are actually 2 cats fitted - i thought they only had one..
Anyway, basically you requested a diagnostic on the ecu and a
check of the fuel system / exhaust.
So all you should be paying for is a few hours diagnostic seeing as they 'said' they removed the exhaust first (and missed the problem) and so most other things are on them, a few hours labour for the cat fitting and the part, the injector clean is probably fair enough with those k's on it.
Dont pay for any labour or costs for the aircon shiza thats between the dealer and the supplier.
plugs - they should have just cleaned them not replaced them , and yes they are platinum jobs. Thats if they actually removed them at all...
Sounds like they are trying to take you for a ride on the gumby train charging for unauthorised work / parts etc. Dealer workshops have the normal practice of piling on the extras and upselling work thats not really needed, in fact its the job of the service advisor to bump it up as much as possible, and they get a percentage of the extras..
How
well do you get on with your normal mechanic ? sounds like you might need to take him along with you and get them to show him everything they are trying to charge for.
Hang on i just re-read your last bit, you have already paid and picked up the vehicle? yes? if so get it straight to your mech and get him to verify that the various jobs were actually done, eg- look for witness marks on bolts etc.. and if you catch em out go hard at the dealer principal at the dealership.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 21:38
Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 21:38
Nice
pic, Bradley!
;-)
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Reply By: fronteragirl - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 21:03
Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 21:03
Many thanks everyone for the advice and replies....
Savvas yes you are right they are platinum not iridium that was my mistake. But still they didn't need replacing at all.
Savvas and Brian B they labour hours are a bit of a mystery when I asked them after having my car for 3 days at that stage they advised they had spent about 5 hours on the car. the hours of labour did not really come into the equation after all as you will see further down this post.
Rengatt I certainly did crack an absolute #$%@ the recall letter arrived in the mail here the day after I got my car and after not having it for 11 days so I was not too impressed but I am ringing up a DIFFERENT dealer tomorrow to make the arrangements. Yes I am very happy with my frontera I love it to bits.
Bradley spot on about the female thing but in no way a dumb blonde as Holden may have thought considering I even told them I thought it was the cat. They will not make that mistake again. My regular mechanic is a gem and he was astounded as
well and advised next time there is a major issue he will be speaking to them.
Well any way as you all know they wanted $1680.00 and I nearly had a heart attack and told them there was no way I was paying that much. They customer service guy tried to insist but when I produced 3 pages front and back of every conversation I had had with him and all they had advised they were doing at each call he suddenly changed his tune he raced off to the managers office where I could see a very heated argument. Then my tear ducts got a little over loaded (sorry guys a women's prerogative) the manager came out to discuss the bill after a few more discussions and dissection of the bill he went away for a few moments to revise the account and advised they would only charge me what it cost them $ 822.00 ( still porkies as far as I am concerned) but paid the account a drove off. It was really and Oscar winning performance and I feel better knowing I didn't pay the full amount. The customer service guy was very upset with me and explained he was in the firing line due to all of this (not my problem really) so i took my free xmas cake and left.
I think I still need to follow some more advice here and get down to the mechanic and get him to
check out a few more things for peace of mind and I will also be requesting a loan car for however long the car is at the next dealership to have the steering looked at
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 21:37
Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 21:37
I'm impressed! Most definitely, I'm very impressed! $822 is way better than I'd expect to end up at, but there's no way that's cost to them.
I wonder how I'd go with the tear ducts flowing ... ;-)
Whereabouts are you? It may
well pay to ask if there are any good dealerships that people on this
forum know about, to get the recall work done.
Something else to think about. The dealership would have known about the recall when they had the car. They are advised before the letters go out to owners.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 21:55
Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 21:55
ahh at least a more realistic figure at last, nice work , use the female angle straight back at them,
Trust me - stick with your mech, he knows more than most dealers about the Frontera, as with all the isuzu gear , holden dont have or dont want to know.... just want money spinner commodore
services.
Best advice on the recall, wait a while till they know what they are doing, as most dealers will give continually the work to a few guys who will get nice and familiar with the job. Don't want em learning on your rig....
Good work. Cheers
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: fronteragirl - Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 23:39
Tuesday, Dec 07, 2004 at 23:39
Savvas I am in
Brisbane..... I know of one Holden dealership not to go to but not sure weather it is advisable to say who so any recommendations from other in
Brisbane would be greatly appreciated.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Moz - Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 00:03
Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 00:03
Unfortunately it is a bit of a "hit and miss" exercise when choosing a dealership.
I'd say all dealerships will have a handful of a good mechanics (some are excellent), but dealers rely heavily on apprentices doing a lot of work they are not experienced in.
In fact the brain drain from the automotive industry is slowly reaching crisis point (in
Brisbane), with anyone with enough nous to diagnose logically and effectively are finding better paid jobs outside the industry (only panel beaters get paid less out of all the trades). Consequently the only way to keep up staff numbers is to employ more apprentices. I have seen a workshop where the average mechanic's age would be around 21-22 years, less than 5 years experience.
The only thing i could offer would be that if you go back to the original dealership they should be trying to move mountains to win your satisfaction.
cheers Moz
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: fronteragirl - Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 00:18
Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 00:18
Hmmmm... Moz good point but in all honesty not sure I could stomach seeing the Cust serv guy again he really has shaken me and I have even been silly enough to have had dreams about ME consoling HIM because he was in tears....LOL but in saying that what would the manager have to say if I rocked up with the Holden letter asking why he didn't know about this already. Apparently it was even on the news ( not that I recall)
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Follow Up By: Moz - Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 00:39
Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 00:39
Don't know the details of the recall, but usually the dealers are the last to know about recalls.
In about 10 years of working for Holden, more than half the recalls I
heard about were from the newspaper/radio.
Then some we found out from customers coming in with letters saying this needs to be done.
I don't know why this happens and probably isn't isolated to Holden.
If the recall only affects a small number of vehicles the dealership relies
on the customer bringing in the letter of advice.
If its a wide ranging recall then it is easier to implement checking each vehicle regardless.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi - Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 08:50
Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 08:50
I used Eagers at Newstead for years whenI worked over that way. Found them very good. Hope they weren't your dealer....:-)
Bear in mind though that all dealers change personell over time so what was good then may not be now and vice versa....
Cheers,
John.
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Follow Up By: Member - rengatt (VIC) - Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 11:45
Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 11:45
Mine is booked in tomorrow for the recall and they quoted it would be out in 2 hours. I asked for a replacement vehicle and they declined the request.
Have told them that I will be hanging around the workshop as I want a complete expalantion before they attack the steering system with any tools.
He didn't like it when I said that if they make any sort of adjustment or change to the steering set up I expect them to provide a wheel alignment.
They have agreed to this so it may be worth a try for other owners to negotiate a wheel alignment as an extra.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 18:43
Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 18:43
Too right Moz, here in Vic a workshop only has to have 1 qualified mechanic on premises, not necessarily on the tools, everyone else is apprentice 1st or 2nd year usually (govt subsidised) or 'lube mechanic' which means totally unqualified..
Yeah i couldn't get out of auto quick enough (aircraft maint. engineer by trade) after my short stint years ago. you get flogged like a dog all day long - What, you havent finished that major service in 1/2 an hour ?? There is some thing wrong - did the owner report it? NO - then dont worry about it.....
Yep we are following Europe with the skills drain, they now run longlife oils in a lot of cars to extend service out to 30-40k because there is no-one to fix the things. Work your a.. off for $13 an hour, yeah right, a nuffy can get twice that packing boxes at the
supermarket ...
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Follow Up By: Moz - Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 22:17
Wednesday, Dec 08, 2004 at 22:17
Sounds like its not just a problem here.
After 11 years in it I am looking to move out as
well.
No career path, poor money, high stress
Who needs it.
Cheers Moz
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