Oil filters for GU patrol

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 10:55
ThreadID: 19053 Views:8813 Replies:7 FollowUps:20
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I have a GU 4.2 turbo diesel. Was initially told that I'd need 2 oil filters (by nissan and repco) each one different. Found that genuine are worth a fortune and during the Super Cheap 20% off sale brought a couple of each filter, Valvoline. Drop the oil, remove the filters and guess what, both are the same. Lucky I brought a couple of each. If you have a similar model and wish to carry spares on a trip it might be worth making sure of what you need.

Was a bit unsure of the quality of Valvoline still not sure of it's filteration quality. However with genuine filters on cold start up oil light would take up to 10 seconds to go out, on hot start a second or two. With the Valvoline filters cold start it's 2-3 seconds and hot start it's out imediately. That's got to be better.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:07

Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:07
Nissan in their wisdom, changed 1/2 way through the GU range to 2 different filters from the 2 the same thing. They went back to 2 the same after a while. Good eh!

The 2 the same are only $10ea.. the others are $$$.. :(
AnswerID: 91245

Follow Up By: Austravel - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:28

Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:28
Hi Truckster, not sure of the logic of the changes but you'd need to be sure of what you've got.

The ones you talk about that are 10 bucks each. I've heard of them but was told by nissan that they are the nonturbo version filters for the GQ. Have not gone into it yet but do you know if this is true. You can buy a $10 or a $30 filter that will fit but they say only the $30 one is suitable for this engine.

Could be marketing but it'd be nice to know for sure they are both the same filter.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:37

Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:37
I gotta go down to Blackburn Nissan later today, what model exactly do u have? I'll ask while down there :)
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Follow Up By: Austravel - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 12:31

Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 12:31
Thanks for that. It's an 07/02 DX 4.2 turbo diesel ute.
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Follow Up By: Austravel - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 13:17

Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 13:17
Hi Truckster, did you think of my question when you were at Nissan yesterday??
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Follow Up By: GOB & denny vic member - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 16:21

Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 16:21
17-12-04 nissan dandenong list price $19.48 + gst same type filters part no NI -15208 43g00

steve
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 21:40

Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 21:40
Hi Aus,
No I didnt, had a server shi tit self, so didnt get there :(

Have to go pickup some cup holders in the morning. Will do then
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Follow Up By: Austravel - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 09:50

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 09:50
Thanks Truckster.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 14:43

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 14:43
Ok.
THERE ARE DIFFERENCES!!!!

The main difference is
That in the more expensive ones which they changed back to the older type later on - the filter has a valve inside the filter. On the earlier ones its on the block of the engine.
Quite easy to see if you stand them side by side. Ask your dealer to show you them side by side. Thats why they are $$ :-s..

The earlier GENUINE NISSAN ones I can get for $212 for 24...Works out to be around 8.83each!!!! Brilliant.

OR $260.40 for 24 inc new washers for sump plug since they use a crush washer. $10.85ea it works out to..
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Follow Up By: Austravel - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 15:12

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 15:12
Aaah the plot thickens. The geniune filters I removed from the patrol on the weekend had no valve inside and they are the dear ones. I know what valve your talking about as Superthief sold me the wrong filter a V049 and it had a large valve in the body of the filter. But the thread size was way to big. Mine takes the 3/4 and both are the same. So I gather your saying mine has the valve on the block. So I rang Nissan and asked them about the cheaper and dearer versions of the same filter. He went and got both and said there was quite a bit of difference in the weight of them. Cheaper one was pretty light and I was welcome to come and check them out. I'll do this and let you know what I find out.

Have just been emailing RYCO about using Z9's in place of the Z503 filter will put the info into the body of the thread below.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C.- Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 16:57

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 16:57
G'day Truckster,
These earlier GENUINE NISSAN filters that you can get @ $212 for 24....
These are the ones with the larger (not 3/4") thread, and w/- anti-drainback valve.. correct?? If so, I'd be interested in discussing this further with you...
Do you have the (Nissan) part # to hand?

If interested, please feel free to shoot me a line at..
edjan
at
bigpond
dotcom

Many Thanks!
Regards, Ed. C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

Member
My Profile  Send Message

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Follow Up By: Austravel - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 17:17

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 17:17
I'll be interested in the answer as well. I thought he meant these and the newer version without are the dear ones. From what I've found which I think is what Truckster said is if you use the GQ filter (non turbo) they are around $8-10 each, the filter listed for the GU is either 2 of the same at over $20 each or one of each, one with a valve in. The one with the valve in is similar in price, over $20. While with RYCO the one with the valve in is actually cheaper than without, got to be economy of scale or marketing when it would be dearer to make.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 19:26

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 19:26
u have main Ed.
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Follow Up By: Austravel - Friday, Jan 07, 2005 at 09:25

Friday, Jan 07, 2005 at 09:25
So truckster, did Ed have it right or me as I'm a little confused as well from your post??? The ones I can get for the same $$ as you are the ones with out the valve and the 3/4 thread??
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:08

Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:08
G'day Austravel,
You must have one of the first 4.2 turbos (1999 model perhaps?).
They'd certainly changed over to 2 different filters (added a bypass filter) by the time mine was manufactured in June 2000.
Not sure about your reasoning on oil light going off sooner. I would think that the better the filter, the longer it would take (nanno seconds admittedly) to build up pressure at the switch (which is on the "downstream" side of the filters). My reason for saying this is that the filters obviously have a inherent restriction factor on the oil flow and thus the more filtering that is being done, the more restriction to overcome, the longer it would take for the pressure to build up and switch the light off. It follows (in my mind at least) that if you ran the motor with absolutely no restriction in the filters (by pulling the guts out of them), the pressure at the switch would instantly build and the light would go off.
No doubt there are more mechanically-minded people out there who will shoot me down in flames; I don't mind at all.............go for it. I'm always open to learning new stuff.
AnswerID: 91246

Follow Up By: Austravel - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:25

Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:25
2002 model. I think the difference in the oil light going out has more to do with the effectivness of the filters flow valve.
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Follow Up By: Flash - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 12:51

Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 12:51
Yes, if the oil light takes a while to go out it is because the non-return valve in the filter is not doing it's job.
I tried Valvoline some time ago and had problems with delay in the light going out. Went back to Ryco and the problem went away.
I then rang Valvoline and they said it was a known problem on their Patrol Filters and would be fixed (I haven't tried them again as Ryco work for me!)
Cheers
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Reply By: ianmc - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 12:05

Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 12:05
Dont some have a non return valve to stop loss of oil when switched off?
And to ensure the motor gets oil quick after cold starts? Valvoline is a big name in oil so wouldnt think they would make a dud!
AnswerID: 91257

Reply By: basecamp15 - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 21:40

Tuesday, Jan 04, 2005 at 21:40
You definitely have to check the Ryco catalogue carefully against the year with these.
My 1999 GU 4.2 takes the Z416 and 503 filters, don't know the Valvoline equivalent.
Cheers, Mark.
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Reply By: desert - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 14:28

Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 14:28
This may help you somewhat. I've been through the filter wringer on this one before.As with most genuine parts, most are produced by an outside company and sub-contract to Nissan or whomever. Nissan simply buy in filters from another manufacturer and have their own part number etc printed. If you cross-reference with Ryco (via their very good web site) you will see that the Z416 (the one with the larger thread and hole, retails around the $13 to $15 mark. The other one,I think is Z506 or whatever, can be interchanged with a Z9. The Z9 is the most common and therefore the most cheapest filter on the market. Try $2.90 on special. (makers like Valvoline,Cooper,Purolator) the USA makes are good quality. Steer clear of the Chinese crap. These will keep the oil light on longer due to the oil draining back overnight. Air in the system (ie light on) also means no pressure at crank and rod bearings. Dicey. Oil light should go out in under 5 seconds. I also found with the Chinese crap that they tended to foul on the casting before contacting the seal too. Sloppy manufactuering. I use Z9 (or equivalent) when on special (Autobarn,Bursons etc) and run the Ryco Z416 for the "expensive" one.
AnswerID: 91431

Follow Up By: Austravel - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 16:04

Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 16:04
Thanks Desert, I've heard on other forums people using the Z9 filter. Also understand that major companies like Nissan get others to build gear to their specs. "To their specs" has always been the stumbling block for me. Always very difficult to find out if for example Nissan's filters built by lets say RYCO are the same as any other filter built by the same company that would suit the same vehicle. My inital view was that it's unlikely. Especially when you consider the Z9 is built predominatly for older technology motors, ie larger clearance.

Checked the RYCO site as you suggested and Z503 is the filter nominated for use. Couldn't find anything specifying Z9 or any data sheets giving specs on both filters. So, I rang their tech line, fully expecting them to say no chance. Which they did, the official line is that the filter recommended for the 4.2 turbo diesel is the Z503 (x2) and no other filter should be used. However I asked them to check the difference in filteration levels and capacity etc. Guess what, Z9's filter down to the same level, both have back flow valves and the Z9's are bigger hence more capacity.

I still have a couple of questions but it's looking quite promising. Just my engineering back ground, don't like taking things on face value, I need to know it's right before making the decission, especially in this area. But so far it looks like not only will the Z9's fit but more importantly they might be better. My only other questions are just because the filter case is bigger does this equate to more or at least the same amount of filter paper as the genuine filters. The other is can SOMEONE ELSE confirm this info??? Does someone out there have similar technical info/data sheets on RYCO filters that they will share with us or at least confirm.

If this turns out right they might not only be cheaper by 10 fold but better.
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Follow Up By: desert - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 14:26

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 14:26
G'day austravel. I to spoke with Ryco tech dept. and was told that the Z503 can be substututed with a Z9, but not the other way around. I have been using z9 and z416 for 3 years now, no problems. I have cut open Z9 and Nissan filters and there is no obvious difference.. As an aside. the Z115 can also interchange with the Z9, but does not have a bypass valve and is $4 dearer anyway, my point being is that the filtration medium is fairly well common across all of these units, only the fitting/thread size varies and the oil seal ring. Another option is to fit a by-pass filter system (ie Franz) and just change the rolls each service (around $2 per roll) and only change the full-flow filters if the oil begins to shows signs of becoming dirty. This can be easily checked with a glass mirror and flat glass with an oil sample pressed between the two, which soon shows up dirt and grit particles. If you have the time and money, have an oil sample professionally examined at 6k, 7k 8k etc, to see how the dirt pattern is relating to change/intervals.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 14:45

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 14:45
read my reply above.
The more expensive ones have a complete valve thign inside them, which is on the block on GQ's and the later GU's..

Thats why they are more $, and the valve is required...
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Follow Up By: Austravel - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 15:15

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 15:15
Thanks Desert, thought about the bypass filters but decided against them. Have been talking via email with RYCO tech dept as well and they have told me exactly as they told you. I'll put the info into the body of the thread below but pretty much the same as you've stated. So sounds like using Z9's are OK. Have heard before people doing this but wanted some supporting evidence that it can be done safely. Seems so.
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Reply By: Foss - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 20:38

Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 20:38
G'Day All

2003 GU 4.2 Td.

I have recently had the pleasure of two oil changes performed by a nissan dealer where the OE filter, yes the blue nissan ones, had faulty anti drainback valves. These two instances were separated by a major (30K) service. At the first rectification by dealer 1 I was told that the oil light should indeed go out fairly quickly at startup. When I pressed them for an exact number I was told around 3 seconds with 5 being acceptable. I had new filters fitted and the problem went away.

About 5 weeks after the 30K service I had another oil change done by dealer number 2. when I came to pick up the car I noticed that it took about 15 or so seconds for the oil light to go out. I went back inside and spoke to the service reception person asking them to get the service manager so I could have a chat with them about it. They came back and said "the workshop foreman says this is normal and not to worry about it". I then mentioned the previous rectification and the dealers name that gave me the preceeding info, asking them who was lying and why they thought so little of the investment I had made on motor vehicles with Nissan. The reply was a bumbling string of backpedaling crap. This is the last straw for dealers as far as I am concerned. I will never take my vehicle to one again. Should you be interested in which dealer did what I am happy to pass on names off list.

The moral of the story is, don't think you're getting good quality equipment just because it has a brand name on it. two sets of nissan filters in four months faulty.
AnswerID: 91483

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 21:42

Wednesday, Jan 05, 2005 at 21:42
"two sets of nissan filters in four months faulty"

Wonder what the figures on faulty 3.0's is LMAO :P
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Reply By: Austravel - Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 15:30

Thursday, Jan 06, 2005 at 15:30
Below is the online discussion (minus names) I had with one of the RYCO techs on the Z503 and Z9 filter. The Z503 is the one they specify as a replacement for the genuine filter for the 4.2 turbo diesel GU. As they say if you do it be it on your own head, neither RYCO nor myself suggest you use the Z9 as an alternative. Read from the bottom up, bottom email is my first etc.

Looks like it might be worth considering.

--------------------------------------------------------------

The only issue you may have if anything was to go wrong you would not be covered by the Ryco warranty as it states you must use what is catalogued.

We normally bring a filter like this out because it is closer to O.E specifications and we have to keep within the O.E standards..

You could use it but as they say on your head be it.

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Thanks, think I'll do this as the Z9's are much, much cheaper than the Z503's which are listed for my GU 4.2 turbo diesel patrol. Any reason for this, is it just economy's of scale?

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Correct but not the other way around!

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So there should be no reason why I can't use a Z9 filter in place of a Z503 is this right???

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Thanks for the reply. I have a couple more questions leading on from your info.

1. I gather the relief valve is if pressure builds to high it will open. Why doesn't the Z503 have one and is this the correct logic as to it's use?? CORRECT

2. Since the Z9 is larger in physical size does this equate to more filtering capacity ie more filter paper so takes longer to be fully contaminated??? There is not enough difference with these two to make a difference.

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Thanks for the email.
Below is the specifications I believe you are after.
Hope it helps!!
Kind regards

Z503: Thread Seam Diameter Height Seal
3/4 16-UNF-2B 94.00 127.40
70.30 Full flow filter paper is 30Micron No relief valve but
contains an anti drain back valve

Z9:
3/4 16-UNF-2B 94.00 142.00 70.30 Full
flow filter paper is 30Micron Contains both an anti drain back valve
and a pressure relief valve.

----------------------------------------------------

I've been trying to track down specification/data sheets on a couple of filters. The data I'd like are on your filters Z503 and the Z9. Are you able to email me a copy or tell me were I can locate them. Basically after filtration and size specs.

AnswerID: 91611

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