Prado in Lake Conjola

Hi Jon,

I suspect it was/is very sad. I understand it was not a gazetted track so insurance may also be a problem. Hope it works out for the driver/owner.
Like to see the photos though.

Well Mick, I hope you're kidding here. If you had it your way then by the same token you would not be allowed to drive your 4wd into the city and have to let it outside the city everytime you would come to do some shopping and you would not be allowed to own a normal sedan in the country either then. I don't think you'd like that.
There are a few people who are irresponsible or unaware out there but the vast majority of 4wd owners from the city know what they are doing and the limit of their vehicles. All you need to do his educate and guide the others. No need to spoil the fun of the majority!

Slyonnet, your followup is very short on logic. I made no mention of banning 4wds from city areas. Read it again and you may see the point - ownership of 4wds restricted to people who live in rural areas. There is absolutely no logic in banning cars from the country if 4wd ownership is not allowed to city dwellers. Your point is similar to saying that if vehicles not carrying chains in the boot are banned from alpine areas, then vehicles carrying chains in the boot are banned from city areas.
Try going off road some time and you'll see that there are many (not few) people who are irresponsible and unaware out there. Try listening for chainsaws hacking into the bush for firewood, check a stream or two for pollution from soap and shampoo, listen for people running generators to light a 60watt globe, check for campfires left smouldering (many major fires have been started this way) See how many people try to climb the "widow maker" at Wonnangatta - regardless of the previous tragic loss of life at this site, have a look at the many "bog holes" caused by people who test their vehicles in mud, ask around and see how many people are carrying recovery gear (my policy is now that my snatch strap is for my vehicle after ruining 3 straps on others and not even being offered any compensation. If a bogged vehicle wants to be snatched out, they supply the strap. And so the list can go on - basic communications, good maps, emergency food supplies etc, etc, etc .... Locals in the Licola won't even leave town without $1,000 up front to retrieve vehicles of irresponsible drivers. They are so sick of the time and effort and danger involved. My mate up that way ruined a hand winch recovering a city bloke's vehicle. The city bloke got his details and assured him that the winch would be replaced. That was 8 years ago and he's still waiting!! I'm sure that by now you've changed your views on the number of "responsible" drivers who visit the bush once in a blue moon.

Hi Mick - not trying to stir the pot or anything, you certainly have covered a lot of reasons why certain folk should not have access to a 4wd, but as slyonnet was getting at, city folk are not all tarred with the same brush. I have met a few country folk who would come at least close to your description of us city folk, and I'm sure there are those out there who go even further in the "hoon" stakes. Anyway, telling people in the city that they have no right to have a 4wd seems to me a bit extreme, although I am 110% behind ALL 4wd owners needing driver training and education specific to their vehicles, both on and off road as its too easy for anyone driving any vehicle to get into strife. When I get out of the city in my Prado, I don't match any of the city folk descriptions you have listed, even to the point of taking my own firewood. As far as driving goes, I'm not a hoon who attempts a notorious hill climb as a badge of honour, or someone who goes anywhere near mud if there is any alternative (I prefer to turn back, actually - getting bogged doesn't interest me in the slightest) and the city dwelling 4wd-ers who I have been on trips with are all similar minded creatures to myself. I was previously in the motorcycle fraternity and know all about a few bad apples spoiling the whole scene for everybody. Guess all I'm saying is that you can't generalise that if you come from the city, that 4wds should be off imits due to the way that you envisgae that every single one of us will use them.

Peace
Rich

OK Mick,

first of all I don't think my reply is short of logic. In fact it follows the same logic you used. You're saying people from the city should not have a 4wd then why would people from the country would be allowed to own a normal sedan. If they drive on some of the country tracks with a 2wd they will damaged the track for youso surely you can't allow that either! I was just being sarcastic to show you how your kind of radical views work when you pursue them further.
Secondly, I've been off road 3 times in the last month and have only seen one potential irresponsible guy. And I say "potential" because I just assume his vehicle was geared up appropriately but I did not see him going through with it. Maybe he did pull it through without problem and I was wrong about his car or maybe he did not attempt to go further when he saw the conditions. The good point was that he was with 2 other cars who were definitely right for the task and that's why I did not stay to see if he was getting into some trouble. However I don't know if he was from the city or the country which brings me to my third point.
Thirdly, nice to see you keep a record of every encounter you had with someone who did not know how to use his 4wd and respect the tracks for the others to enjoy. Now how do you know that all of those people were from the city. Unless you asked them as far as we can tell they could have been from the country also. Let's assume you asked them and they were all from the city. Well do you keep a record of the people from the city that you saw doing the right with their 4wd and by the environment? I would be interested in comparing the totals and then maybe I'll change my view, but in the last month I saw more than 50 vehicles and only one was potentially doing the wrong thing. Considering where I was it more than conservative to assume that at the minimum 50% were from the city. This means that potentially 1 out of 25 drivers from the city would have been irresponsible at the maximum. And that's being very conservative. It seems to be a bit far from your stats which sounds like close to 100% of the city 4wdrivers are irresponsible by looking at your post. Maybe you should think about it as well and review your judgement.
Now I fully understand your anger and realise that it must be even more frustrating to you because it is your local area where you live that some people are damaging by being irresponsible. I too ambleepoff at a###holes who think they can do whatever wherevere they want with their 4wd without even knowing how to use it. I have seen the results and I don't like it either but generalising and saying that most of the city 4wd are like that and that they should be banned is not appropriate. And to tell you the truth I have seen some people from the bush doing dirty things more than once out there and I am not saying that all people from the bush are crazy hoons who think the bush is their playground and that they can do whatever they want in it and that they should not be allowed to drive their vehicles anymore. The fact is that there are some idiots (both in the city and the country) that spoils the fun for the rest of us (both from the city and the country) and that's a shame but unfortunately there's not much we can do about it. Let's face it I don't think your idea of banning city people from owning a 4wd will be followed by many. I believe it would be a better idea to make it compulsory to attend a 4wd course or join a 4wd club if you intend to drive off road. If you don't want to drive off-road fine you can by the 4wd but are not allowed off-road. If you want to drive it off-road then you need to show proof that you are licensed in some way to do so. Unfortunately I don't think this will take place fast. Just look at the boating rules in WA. I was very surprised when I arrived in Australia to find out that you don't require a license to drive a boat. This is the same story here: Some people do the right thing and a few are irresponsible and put the others and the environment at risk. And still the legislation remains unchanged. Maybe the car dealer should provide the 4wd course as part of the package when they sell you the car.
I hope you will see things differently now and if I ever go your way I will try to prove you that all city 4wdivers are not irresponsible.
Cheers,

Slyonnet.

So Mick, all country people do the right thing and all city people do the wrong thing so they are not allowed to go bush anymore.

Wow, if only I had known life was this simple before hand....

What a rediculous load of crap.

I grew up as a kid in the country and now live in the city, so what do I get my car taken off me when I change address??

It's barley even worth replying to rediculous posts like this.