Off Topic - 4lt / 100km

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 09, 2005 at 21:19
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I went for a drive in one of these tonight. Pretty amazing technology. Soooo quiet, no gearbox. Plenty of room (I am 6'2")
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Reply By: porlsprado - Sunday, Jan 09, 2005 at 22:05

Sunday, Jan 09, 2005 at 22:05
to compare drive a intercooled turbo diesel golf at 5l per 100Km, you'll get where you wanna go a few hours quicker.
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Follow Up By: Member - Lindsay S (Int) - Sunday, Jan 09, 2005 at 22:33

Sunday, Jan 09, 2005 at 22:33
Right on the money. I have not driven the Prius but the Golf is unbeleivable. I doubt if anyone who was not familiar with the new diesels would guess it for two litres if they were not told. Have a look at the new Mercedes V6, the future of the Graz built Grand Cherokee may be interesting.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 07:28

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 07:28
I'm going to wait for another couple of years and possibly trade my Grand 2.7 CRD for the new WK with the V6 - IF the IFS does what I want on the trail. The current 5-cyl is so good, so I can only wonder how much better the V6 is. My major point of interest will be its engine braking capacity down the steep stuff - as the I-5 is actually quite good as it is. V6's typically have less capacity to engine brake as the stroke is typically shorter and over-square. I currently get 8.5L/100km on the road - and that's pulling around 2.2 tonnes of truck around - the 2003 Grand CRD with ARB bar and a drawer system. Not bad given that I hammer it a bit.
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Follow Up By: Johnno1 - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 08:41

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 08:41
I have done approx 4,000km in the new Prius and have to say it is a FANTASTIC car !!... I am not sure about the golf getting their quicker either as the Prius is very quick just drive one. Ev mode is fun in shopping centres as well as nobody can hear the damn thing come up on them ( can be dangerous ). They are overpriced right now but the technology will be an option on all Toyota passenger cars within the next 4 years.

" I will take a Corolla with the hybrid option please sir " .

Can't wait !! .. Efficiency turns me on :)
FollowupID: 350928

Reply By: ianmc - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 00:25

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 00:25
Very limited range on batteries, & when low the motor has to both move the car & charge the batteries. Heard Toy pulled out of recent economy trial when they heard some new diesels were entering.
Why would U spend $40,000 on one ( friend has!) when a simpler diesel will do the job. Peug 306 & 406 will match it for economy without all the other add ons, batteries etc.
AnswerID: 92109

Follow Up By: Johnno1 - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 08:45

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 08:45
Prius is much cleaner and kinder to the environment , that is why. It had bugged me for a while why Toytota did not work on a Diesel / hybrid set up as it would make much more sense but then I was told that the diesel was not a clean enough motor to fly the green flag on.

Nevertheless and little T/D hybrid would be a dynamite combination if it was possible .

Any questions on the Prius shoot them my way as I have had lots of time in one .

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Follow Up By: timglobal - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 13:28

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 13:28
"Prius is much cleaner / kinder to the environment" - ?? Than the latest diesels - I doubt it.
Many of the latest small to medium common-rail diesels (notably the French with their HDi, followed by Toyota with their D4D and Ford CDi engines) can beat the Prius hands-down on economy and wipe the floor with petrols and hybrids on emissions - since you can't really go lower than zero. In fact some have been monitored emitting cleaner air from exhaust than inducted from atmosphere.
The main reason for many of these not coming over this side of the world is the poor quality (high sulphur) of Australian diesel, but they are overcoming this.
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Reply By: RichieK - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 05:33

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 05:33
BUt you gotta take your hats off to Toyo for at least going down the electric/hybrid road - the technology can only improve....
AnswerID: 92115

Follow Up By: Johnno1 - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 08:46

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 08:46
Improve ?

Drive one mate. It is all that you need .
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Reply By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:07

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:07
The Prius is probably already old-hat. The hydrogen fuel cell is nearing reality - as per this little ditty from the NY Times today:


THE Sequel is totally cool.

General Motors' latest hydrogen car prototype, called the Sequel, will be unveiled today at a press preview of the North American International Auto Show here. It is a car unlike any other and a glimpse of a possible, very different, automotive future. Most important, it runs on a hydrogen fuel cell, so its only tailpipe emission is water vapor, not the smog-forming pollutants and greenhouse gases that come out of gasoline-powered cars.

So why do environmental groups see the Sequel not as a panacea for cars' environmental shortcomings but as G.M.'s latest Trojan horse?

G.M. has trotted out impressive hydrogen-fueled cars before - most recently the Sequel's predecessor, the Hy-wire. G.M. says it will theoretically be able to mass-produce fuel cell vehicles affordably by 2010 - even though most competitors, which are also working on the technology, say it will be decades before such vehicles are viable.

And G.M. hardly screams green in the present. In the 2003 model year, the average fuel economy of G.M.'s cars and trucks fell to its lowest point in two decades. And the company has lobbied vigorously to block more stringent fuel regulations and has taken major roles in lawsuits against California's antipollution rules.

"There's no sign by General Motors that they have any inclination to act in the here and now," said David Doniger, policy director of the climate center of the Natural Resources Defense Council and a senior Environmental Protection Agency official in the Clinton administration.

Lawrence Burns, G.M.'s vice president for research and development, says G.M. makes many vehicles that are the most fuel-efficient in their class. It also makes many laggards, though, and its Hummer is Detroit's least fuel-efficient brand. But Mr. Burns says the fuel cell can end gasoline's grip on the industry.

"It could flat-out reinvent the automobile," he said in a recent interview. "The environmentalists who think we're doing a head fake with this, either they're not listening to that part of the story or believe we've made it up. But the engineer in me says this is the greatest opportunity certainly in my career to truly come up with a better machine."

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are not to be confused with hybrid electric cars, which were brought to the United States in the late 1990's by Honda and Toyota. A hybrid vehicle uses an electric motor alongside an internal combustion engine. Hybrids work pretty much like regular cars; drivers just have to go to the gas station a bit less often. And hybrids are already here: more than 80,000 were sold in America last year.

By contrast, a fuel cell represents an entirely new way of propelling a car. A single cell is a waferlike device that separates hydrogen atoms into electrons and protons, using the electrons to generate a current. The byproduct of the process is water vapor, formed when the leftover hydrogen protons are combined with oxygen from the air. A whole stack of these wafers - 372 in the Sequel - is required to generate enough power for a car. The Sequel's stack is stored in a steel case a bit larger than a VCR.

Fuel cells have been around for more than a century. They provided power for the lunar landers, conveniently spitting out water for astronauts to drink. Back in the days of lunar landers - in the 1960's and 70's, when G.M. was dominant among American corporations - the company built the first automotive fuel cell prototype. The system, however, was clunky and filled an entire van, called "Electrovan," and was sort of a cross between the Hindenburg and Scooby Doo's Mystery Machine.

More recently, G.M. and other automakers have been able to wedge fuel cell systems under the hoods of conventional vehicles, and the companies are convinced that riding on top of a tank of compressed hydrogen is no less safe than riding on top of a tank of gasoline.

But G.M. also sees the technology as an opportunity to reimagine the automobile. All of the Sequel's essential components are housed in a surfboardlike platform under the car. While G.M. has displayed a similar idea at previous shows, the Sequel has been engineered to be a real car that complies with crash test regulations.
AnswerID: 92142

Reply By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:19

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:19
Seeing as its off the topic I will get further off it. These vehicles are only toe in the oceon stuff when people relize oil really is running out (probably sooner than we think - and make no mistake it is running out) that is when people will seriosly want to buy these vehicles (have to) and that is when return on investment will make proper building of these types of vehicles economical. So what does this mean to 4by driving as we know it? probably quite a bit I dont believe in 70 years (or even by the time I am 70) that buying the big 4by and putting a caravan behind it before setting off on your lap of honour will be an option. Also where will you find the hydrogen drop on well 26 of the csr or the plug in point. Enjoy while you can you might have to try and explain to your Grandkids what it all used to be about
AnswerID: 92177

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 14:12

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 14:12
And the Daewoo Matiz gets 4/100 and costs less. We have 3 people at work with them... PERFECT daily drivers for work. Oliver is also very tall(havent got that friendly to measure him) but he fits in quiet well by lookin at him drivin in....
AnswerID: 92198

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:18

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:18
What, by sitting in the back seat, "Police Academy" style???ROFLMAO
FollowupID: 351135

Reply By: MrBitchi - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 15:18

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 15:18
We've got 4 of these bleep boxes at work, 3 old models and 1 new model. I'm 6'4" and find it almost impossible to get comfortable in them. Absolutely no leg room. They go OK but seeing as how they're pool cars they are driven fairly hard and don't get anywhere near the mileage that Toyota talk about.
And as for the design, what design? Typical 'design by committee' Japanese shopping trolley. Probably the worst example of Jap-crap I've ever had the displeasure to be forced to drive....:---(((


AnswerID: 92211

Follow Up By: KiwiAngler - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 16:24

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 16:24
You have GOT to be joking!!!

Either that or you drove something other than the Prius.

I am 6'3" and had PLENTY of room both leg and head room the design is by necessity 'different' to enable the best aero dynamics but 'different' doesnt mean "Jap-crap".

I think you have put far too much emotion in your post and not enough thought.

I guess we are never going to agree on this one
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Follow Up By: KiwiAngler - Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 16:26

Monday, Jan 10, 2005 at 16:26
oooops...just grew an inch...typo...I am 6'2" :-)
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi - Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 08:42

Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 at 08:42
You'd be right about not agreeing! We've had these things for about 3 or 4 years now, ever since they were first released so I know what I'm talking about.
Too much emotion...? Nah, just too many years of putting up with these bleep boxes as transport. We have one Holden ute as well as the 4 Priuses (plural?) and that's the car everyone fights for.
By design I was refering more to the interior design and layout, allthough I personally think the exterior is a bit of a dogs breakfast too.
The idea af a central instrument cluster may make sense to a committee of beancounters but does nothing for me. I like the instruments in front of me when I'm driving. I've noticed, though, that other manufactures are going the same way, Nissan Xtrail for example.
Likewise a dash mounted gear lever.
Likewise the lack of a console to rest my cramped left leg on.
Rectify these issues (and move the seat back about 6 inches) and you'd have an OK car.
Till then I'll stick to my "Jap-crap" opinion and pray that when 'they' finally design the Hydrogen car 'they' ask the design experts what it should look like, not the beancounters.

Cheers, John.

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