Caravan Sway

Hi Top cat,

Vans cannot have relocatable wheels as the wheel well on the van body has to fit. Unfortunately the van engineer has to get it right in the design stage as once built its not feasable to move the wheels. Some vans are just more inherently stable due to their (better) design. But moving weight to help balance is the right way to go.

Cheers

Captain

aha.........thanks mate..........all makes sense.

That being the case, the original poster might like to try placing some drums of water up the front of the van to offset the weight at the back...........that is of course if its not just the way he has packed the van himself.

cheers.

Thanks Greg
I shall do just that. Certainly it's an issue I had not thought of.
Des

G'day Captain

You pose very penetrating questions.
First up though I must point out the confusion that seems to surround "ball weight" and the "weight transference" gained using towing aids. An expert belonging to Arrow Caravans (Brisbane) has told me that my current bar is illegal because, although it is rated high enough to pull my 'van, its maximum ball weight allowance is 90kg. He also told me that the two bar Camec tow aid is only rated for 80 kg ball weight. On the other hand, the Camec specifications for their tow aids say they "transfer up to xxkilogrammes from the rear of the car to the front wheels of the car and the wheels of the caravan", no mention of ball weight. If one is shifting loads around like this, there must surely be some relationship between ball weight and load transference, but I can't find any reference to it.
I am certainly not trying to tranfer the "most" amount, I am trying to get legal (and safe). In this context, I am advised that the 2100kg bar from HR has a ball weight limit over 200 kg.
You could be right about too light a ball weight induced by the tow aid since the 'van does at times seem just a tad down at the back. If I get the WDH, it seems I can readily correct this and have a slight dip at the towbar to get the airflow to bear down on the 'van tyres.
Vehicle looks beaut once set up, no sags or horrible tail up, despite slight bias of 'van to rear.
Caravan wheels well back of centre, but I have not tried a tow with other vehicle. Also I have only towed an Aerolite (@1100kg ATM) before with the Berlina.
I do appreciate your trouble in addressing the pertinent issues.
My current thinking is to get the bees knees in towing systems and tackle any other issue with confidence in the link between 'van and car.

The best

Des

Hi Des,

Could be wrong but I think ball weight and towing capacity is determined by the vehicle specification. Tow bars are made and rated accordingly. Some manufactures have different towing capacity bars but cannot exceed the max stated in the manual.

Eg my NP Pajero can tow a max of 2500 kg with brakes with a max ball weight of 250 Kg and the manual "recommends" the use of a WDH. I have HD King spings on the back with OE ones left on the front. Bilsteins shocks all round.

I tow a 16 ft Corimal Seka 505 Pioneer XC with a correctly rated HR type tow bar and genuine HR WDH. The fully laiden van weighs in at about 1800 kg and the ball weight at 220kg

I can't tell you how much weight gets transfered to the front of the vehicle but I set the hitch up so that the front of the car comes back down to within 15 mm or so of its unhitched height.

I end up with a very level and stable rig which tows at speed with absolutely no sway even when being passed by B-Dobles nad road trains.

Rosscoe
My friend you have hit exactly on the dilemma I (and probably many others) face. The vehicle manufacturer in my case specifies a towing bar of particular capacity up to a maximum number of kgs (but no ball wt is mentioned). My towbar meets this spec, but the towing rig expert I consulted says that I am illegal because the ball weight my bar will accept is lower than the actual ball weight expressed by my new caravan. The installer of the towbar (fitted so that I could tow a much lighter 'van than my present one) agrees that the ball wt limit is well down on what I need.
In this very Exploroz site (Caravan and RV/Choosing and Setting up a Tow Vehicle/Towing Regulations) you will find reference to ball weight but no actual definition of the "Regulation". Despite an attempt at uniform rules across Oz, I think there are confusing terminologies and a lack of clarity as to what is legally needed and what might be recommended.
Frankly, to protect both my safety and insurance cover I am inclined to over engineer my towing system and have a wide margin for error, but I would love to know just how wide that margin is.
I really do appreciate your input and advice. Your practical experience is invaluable as is that of so many who have responded to my cry for help.

Des

Hi Des,

What year model Berlina? I am suprised that max ball weight is not clearly specified.

Rosscoe
You are absolutely right! I had consulted tthe owner's manual and assumed that the table of "essential" and "recommended" hardware for towing was the complete story. Had I turned another page, I would have found more advice including that ball wt should be @ 10% of loaded mass.
Thanks for prodding me to be more thorough.
I am still puzzled though that the firm that fitted my original towbar could advise that although the bar could handle the overall 'van wt, it was not rated to receive the ball wt involved, hence I was illegal.
I have therefore gone for the doctor and fitted HR tow bar rated at 2100 kg and the HR wieght distribution hitch. Have yet to try it out.
Des

The current laws, especially for insurance purposes, use the vehicle manufacturer's specification to determine legal limits. Irrespective of the tow bar maker's claims if you want to be insurance and roadworthy leagal you cannot exceed the stated figures. It doesn't matter how strong your tow bar is.
It's fine to go "top-draw" on the equipment but, heaven forbid if you are in an accident and have exceeded the manufacturer's limits you could be liable both road rules wise and insurance wise.
Now to throw in another dimension some car makers play with specifications. The maximum weight you can have as vehicle payload and trailer mass needs to be considered.
Can't say for the Berlina but the Pajero manual clearly defines how much weight you can carry in the car before you are cosidered "illegal".
Fortunately the Paj's maximum towing weight still stays at 2500kg with a full vehicle payload. Not so for some cars. You may need to check.

I'm suprised that the Berlina manual states 10% of trailer mass without puting an actual figure on it. Typically you get a max number and the accepted norm for stable towing ist to have the ball loaded to 10 to 15% of the trailer's total weight.

Des,

As an example of this dilema some earlier model Pajeros had a tow ball rating of 70 kg. Clearly, the vehicle was/is capable of more weght if fitted with the right tow bar.
I was on the sidelines of a legal challenge to Mitsubishi Motors when an aquaintance was acting for a disgruntled Pajero owner who wanted to buy a new Caravan.
The upshot was that Mitsubishi agrred to change the stated max ball weight and all was well.

Rosscoe
Thanks again. I do not want to make this a bigger saga than necessary, but it is obviously a thorny question.
My Berlina (2000 VT11) manual RECOMMENDS that the ball wt should be 10% (no plus or minus) of packed trailer wt. It then states axle load limits. There follows an almost Pythonesque example of how to balance your car/trailer combo if you happen to have five 68 kg people and the maximum allowable luggage in the car. "Shift nearly all of the luggage to the trailer and she'll be apples". But the ball wt maximum is given as the luggage wt plus 10% of the trailer mass. So, what you have in the boot plus 10% of trailer's loaded mass should not exceed the max allowable luggage weight.
Sorry, it is probably not possible to convey the absurdity of the text in this manual without reproducing it verbatim.
It surely is valid though to wonder, if there really are 40,000 grey nomads out there, how many are a) fully aware of the towing regs issue and b) how many are unwittingly outside of the requirements.

Des

Bobk
Thanks , I am in the process of doing as you suggest.

Des

Mr Z

Had my Aerolite for 19 years. On the track, it did not let me down once and that included a bit of rough stuff such as the journey into Carnarvon Gorge (a shocker in 1993), the road into Gunpowder (W of mt Isa) and the usual quota of gravel you get anywhere in Oz. Long trips included around Oz, Brisbane to Adelaide to Darwin and back via the Barkly Hwy, Brisbane to Cairns a few times including inland routes. No dramas.

This tale may not be typical. There are all sorts of yarns about this caravan being so fragile that it almost sent Viscount broke all by itself. Many is the time my sanity has been questioned by other caravanners in having such an ill-starred RV.

I think the structure of the Aerolite was a bit light on. I had to have re-sealing done a couple of times besause of leaks and an astute caravan repairer put a couple of strengthening plates on the chassis at alleged weak points.

I sold my Aerolite for about half of the price you seem to be facing. It was in good nick, but at 19 years old, I reckon it owed me nothing. Don't know when they stopped making the marque, but it was a long while ago.

Best of luck with the decision making.

Tony
Thanks for the offer. I am in Brisbane and I am close to getting a deal on the WDH but your knd thought is appreciated.

I agree Bob. You should know what your ball weight is with the water tanks FULL and also when EMPTY. It may mean that you should move the water tank forward of back to get the best weight balance.

With our Bushtracker we have 5 by 82lt water tanks. I always use water from rear tank first and then move forward as I have found it is better to have too much ball weight than not enough.