ET Fishing Show...don't take advice
Submitted: Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:33
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Member - David 0
I watched ET giving snatch strap instructions on his fishing show today. "Always attach the snatch strap using shackles (no comment about them being bow shakles) and always attach them to the designated recovery points" he said. "This 100 series cruiser has four."
The camera shows the shackle and strap being attached to the flimsy tie down point!! There is a lawsuit waiting to happen!
Reply By: Muddy 'doe (SA) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:43
Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:43
And here is me - just 2 hours ago returned from a full weekend of 4WD
Driver Training where this stuff is drilled into you
DO NOT use tie downs for recovery
DO NOT use unrated shackles
DO NOT use shackles with snatch straps
(shakes head at producers of Channel 9 and goes to fridge for another beer)
Cheers
Muddy
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Follow Up By: Patrolman Pat - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:46
Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:46
"goes to fridge for another beer"
any excuse. LOL
How was the training weekend??
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Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:47
Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:47
Yep. I have to admit I use shackles with
mine, but they are rated. It is pretty hard on some vehicles to not use shackles, but I take you point. At least he had it right when he said don't use the towball
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:44
Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:44
Muddy,
" DO NOT use shackles with snatch straps"
Do you mean, don't join snatch straps with a shackel?
Shackles are used to attach the strap to a recovery point that is not a hook, ie an enclosed loop found on the front of 80 series and 75 series plus a few other vehicles.
Wayne
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Follow Up By: Muddy 'doe (SA) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 18:19
Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 18:19
Hi Wayne,
Yes I take your point. If you have closed loop recovery points then you will need to shackle the strap to the point. I have these on the front of the Prado.
I try to minimise the risk by using a bridle (tree truck protector) shackled to both front points, one bolted to each chassis rail. The snatch strap is connected to the bridle by putting the bridle through
the loop of the strap before shackling to recovery points.
This way if a shackle breaks or a recovery point gives way or the bridle snaps then there is not a heavy shackle on the end of the snatch strap to go hurtling towards the recovering vehicle.
The main advice I was referring to in the original reply was indeed not to join two or more straps with a shackle. That would be a very dumb move!
Cheers
Muddy
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Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 23:17
Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 23:17
G'day Muddy,
just a word of caution re using tree trunk protector as a bridle. I investigated whether I could use the one strap for the two purposes but the consensus was that the tree trunk protector is not designed to take the 'point load' that a snatch recovery presents. I wasn't asking retailers, just talking with some seasoned travellers and instructors.
wrt the Troopy front loops. Yeah I did a snatch recovery once with one of these and was initially hesitant about hooking up a strap and shackle to them. After close inspection of
the loop welds etc. (it had been snatch recovered before) and consulting my seniors, I carried out the recovery without issue (this time) but yeah I hesitate when I see welds as opposed to just HT bolts. Live and learn?
cheers.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:08
Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:08
Bow shackles or rated aint mentioned.
I actually went to school with the clown, and went to primary with his missus Monique.. He was NOTHING at sport at school, and usually one ahead of me when picked at lunchtime footy! I was always last, I hated footy.. :(
Shows what good management and marketing can do eh!'
As for that, everyone should email him, toyota, and every 4wd magazine, and association condeming the pleb..
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Browny (VIC) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:59
Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:59
Truck
"He was nothing" He's a clown"
Apparently he speaks highly of you tho........................bwaaarghhaha.
Is there a
well known aussie that you do like?
Browny
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 22:47
Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 22:47
Hmmmmmm I'll get back to you on that one..
Maybe Steve Gall, or Troy Corser, or Rob Phyllis, or Um........
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Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 23:18
Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 23:18
"strap being attached to the flimsy tie down point!! " That flimsy tie down point probably has a sheer point of 15 tonne or more. Seen plenty of 8 tonne straps break with not distorsion to the tie down so as far as tie downs go Toyota do make one of the stronger ones & with an equalizing strap would be more than suitable for most recoveries. To be politically correct I don't believe there is a rated tow point for a
recreation 4x4 with a safe working load capable of hooking up an 8 tonne strap. Why I doubt the tow bar or the bull bar is even allowed to have 8 tonne put on it.(max towing capacity of most tow bars 3.5 tonne or less)
Alot of people who do replace the standard recovery points use the proper hooks instead but attach them to the chassis with 2 x 12mm bolts. Any one who has seen a recovery point failure would know that the weak point is not the tie down ring but the bolts & welded nuts in the chassis. So it's not quite as clear cut as it seems & ET would have no hope of explaining all the issues of vehicle recovery points in a 5 minute segment.
By the way. What recovery points do you have on the Landrover???
Cheers Craig............
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Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 04:16
Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 04:16
"That flimsy tie down point probably has a sheer point of 15 tonne or more"
I doubt it but hey ask Toyota. They say don't do recoveries using that point.
On the Landrover, reasonable ones up front held on by 6x 1/2inch HT bolts. On the rear I use the tongue of towbar with shackle thru it. Difference is I am not giving advice on TV.
I am not having a go at the Toyotas, just saying I don't think he should have given the advice he did. He chould have said make sure your tie down points are suitable, many aren't. That takes less than 5 seconds and covers his a$$.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:59
Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:59
yep crackles you are right those " flimsey" tie down points are definitly anything but, whilst not technically rated one look will tell you they were desighned for alot more than tying the thing down and they are up to any reasnable and beyond recovery. If they were that bad there would be a heck of alot of yotas still bogged in the bush including mine!
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 20:14
Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 20:14
Most manufacturers never put a rating on these tie downs as people will always put a greater unknown load on them during a recovery. Most damage occurs to them when recoveries are done from the side which very few tow points are designed to do anyway.
It appears Landrover at least have a decent recovery point with 6 1/2 " bolts securing it, certainly better than most.
Interesting though that the most common rear tow point & the one recomended by most Instructors being the tow bar, only has a 15mm pin. The same diameter pin is used in a quality .75 tonne safe working load D shackle. (well under the 8Tonne braking strain of common snatch straps)
Cheers Craig.........
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Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 21:53
Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 21:53
Yes that is interesting. BTW my recovery point is not a standard landrover one. The landrover points are similar to all. Thugh the addition of what are called JATE rings seems to handle most situatons. Though JATE rings are really inteded for airlift and tiedown.
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