ET Fishing Show...don't take advice

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:33
ThreadID: 20183 Views:5358 Replies:9 FollowUps:19
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I watched ET giving snatch strap instructions on his fishing show today. "Always attach the snatch strap using shackles (no comment about them being bow shakles) and always attach them to the designated recovery points" he said. "This 100 series cruiser has four."

The camera shows the shackle and strap being attached to the flimsy tie down point!! There is a lawsuit waiting to happen!
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Reply By: Member - Jack - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:41

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:41
Yep. ET has no credibility with me outside of the football arena, so taking his advice on matters relating to 4WD-ing is remote. And you are dead right - someone sees that and gets an injury or worse, and the lawyers will be falling over themselves to get a slice of the action.

I will be like you ... and stick with this forum and my club members.

Cheers
Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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AnswerID: 96986

Reply By: rolande- Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:41

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:41
Not to mention the speed with which he recovered the "stuck" vehicle, lucky that the front end didn't fly off with it.
Rolande
AnswerID: 96987

Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:48

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:48
Yes I fully expected to see it break. I bet the tie down point is a bit sick
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Reply By: Muddy 'doe (SA) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:43

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:43
And here is me - just 2 hours ago returned from a full weekend of 4WD Driver Training where this stuff is drilled into you

DO NOT use tie downs for recovery

DO NOT use unrated shackles

DO NOT use shackles with snatch straps

(shakes head at producers of Channel 9 and goes to fridge for another beer)

Cheers
Muddy
AnswerID: 96988

Follow Up By: Patrolman Pat - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:46

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:46
"goes to fridge for another beer"

any excuse. LOL

How was the training weekend??
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Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:47

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:47
Yep. I have to admit I use shackles with mine, but they are rated. It is pretty hard on some vehicles to not use shackles, but I take you point. At least he had it right when he said don't use the towball
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:44

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:44
Muddy,

" DO NOT use shackles with snatch straps"

Do you mean, don't join snatch straps with a shackel?

Shackles are used to attach the strap to a recovery point that is not a hook, ie an enclosed loop found on the front of 80 series and 75 series plus a few other vehicles.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Muddy 'doe (SA) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 18:19

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 18:19
Hi Wayne,

Yes I take your point. If you have closed loop recovery points then you will need to shackle the strap to the point. I have these on the front of the Prado.

I try to minimise the risk by using a bridle (tree truck protector) shackled to both front points, one bolted to each chassis rail. The snatch strap is connected to the bridle by putting the bridle through the loop of the strap before shackling to recovery points.

This way if a shackle breaks or a recovery point gives way or the bridle snaps then there is not a heavy shackle on the end of the snatch strap to go hurtling towards the recovering vehicle.

The main advice I was referring to in the original reply was indeed not to join two or more straps with a shackle. That would be a very dumb move!

Cheers
Muddy
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Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 23:17

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 23:17
G'day Muddy,

just a word of caution re using tree trunk protector as a bridle. I investigated whether I could use the one strap for the two purposes but the consensus was that the tree trunk protector is not designed to take the 'point load' that a snatch recovery presents. I wasn't asking retailers, just talking with some seasoned travellers and instructors.

wrt the Troopy front loops. Yeah I did a snatch recovery once with one of these and was initially hesitant about hooking up a strap and shackle to them. After close inspection of the loop welds etc. (it had been snatch recovered before) and consulting my seniors, I carried out the recovery without issue (this time) but yeah I hesitate when I see welds as opposed to just HT bolts. Live and learn?

cheers.
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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:44

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 19:44
You would think that will all the $$$$ it costs to buy a new 4by, that rated recovery points would be standard today.
AnswerID: 96989

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 20:26

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 20:26
Not when you can save a couple of dollars.

Youv'e got to pay for that expensive "T" name marketing somehow.........
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:08

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:08
Bow shackles or rated aint mentioned.

I actually went to school with the clown, and went to primary with his missus Monique.. He was NOTHING at sport at school, and usually one ahead of me when picked at lunchtime footy! I was always last, I hated footy.. :(

Shows what good management and marketing can do eh!'

As for that, everyone should email him, toyota, and every 4wd magazine, and association condeming the pleb..
AnswerID: 96997

Follow Up By: Member - Browny (VIC) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:59

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:59
Truck
"He was nothing" He's a clown"

Apparently he speaks highly of you tho........................bwaaarghhaha.

Is there a well known aussie that you do like?

Browny
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 22:47

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 22:47
Hmmmmmm I'll get back to you on that one..

Maybe Steve Gall, or Troy Corser, or Rob Phyllis, or Um........
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Reply By: Bilbo - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:39

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:39
Who's ET???

Bilbo
AnswerID: 97003

Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:50

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 21:50
Andrew Ettinghausen one time rugby league player now fishing/recreation show host
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Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 06:48

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 06:48
He also does a lot of charity work with and for kids.

all the best
eric
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Follow Up By: Member - Mozza (NSW) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:25

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:25
can't agree with the "one time rugby league player" comment.
he played for Cronulla Sharks in the top grade from 1983-2000. that's 17 years of having your body slammed every sat/sun arvo..
he also represented NSW 27 times! (2nd highest capped nsw player!) & Australia on many occaisions (can't find exact stats!)
you'd wanna do alot of fishing after that!
good life he's got now hey!
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Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:37

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:37
Jeez guys,

The purpose of my thread was to say, don't follow the advice and to comment that I wouldn't like to be in ET's shoes because it is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

"One time rugby league player" in my view is accurate. He was a rugby league player. Besides it makes a much neater sentence than 27 times rugby league player.

So to summarise. I am not having a go at Toyotas, not at ET, nor at Rugby. I just think it was dumb advice.

David O
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FollowupID: 355665

Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 23:18

Sunday, Feb 06, 2005 at 23:18
"strap being attached to the flimsy tie down point!! " That flimsy tie down point probably has a sheer point of 15 tonne or more. Seen plenty of 8 tonne straps break with not distorsion to the tie down so as far as tie downs go Toyota do make one of the stronger ones & with an equalizing strap would be more than suitable for most recoveries. To be politically correct I don't believe there is a rated tow point for a recreation 4x4 with a safe working load capable of hooking up an 8 tonne strap. Why I doubt the tow bar or the bull bar is even allowed to have 8 tonne put on it.(max towing capacity of most tow bars 3.5 tonne or less)
Alot of people who do replace the standard recovery points use the proper hooks instead but attach them to the chassis with 2 x 12mm bolts. Any one who has seen a recovery point failure would know that the weak point is not the tie down ring but the bolts & welded nuts in the chassis. So it's not quite as clear cut as it seems & ET would have no hope of explaining all the issues of vehicle recovery points in a 5 minute segment.
By the way. What recovery points do you have on the Landrover???
Cheers Craig............
AnswerID: 97017

Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 04:16

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 04:16
"That flimsy tie down point probably has a sheer point of 15 tonne or more"

I doubt it but hey ask Toyota. They say don't do recoveries using that point.

On the Landrover, reasonable ones up front held on by 6x 1/2inch HT bolts. On the rear I use the tongue of towbar with shackle thru it. Difference is I am not giving advice on TV.

I am not having a go at the Toyotas, just saying I don't think he should have given the advice he did. He chould have said make sure your tie down points are suitable, many aren't. That takes less than 5 seconds and covers his a$$.
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FollowupID: 355641

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (WA) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:59

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 09:59
yep crackles you are right those " flimsey" tie down points are definitly anything but, whilst not technically rated one look will tell you they were desighned for alot more than tying the thing down and they are up to any reasnable and beyond recovery. If they were that bad there would be a heck of alot of yotas still bogged in the bush including mine!
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 20:14

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 20:14
Most manufacturers never put a rating on these tie downs as people will always put a greater unknown load on them during a recovery. Most damage occurs to them when recoveries are done from the side which very few tow points are designed to do anyway.
It appears Landrover at least have a decent recovery point with 6 1/2 " bolts securing it, certainly better than most.
Interesting though that the most common rear tow point & the one recomended by most Instructors being the tow bar, only has a 15mm pin. The same diameter pin is used in a quality .75 tonne safe working load D shackle. (well under the 8Tonne braking strain of common snatch straps)
Cheers Craig.........
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FollowupID: 355757

Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 21:53

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 21:53
Yes that is interesting. BTW my recovery point is not a standard landrover one. The landrover points are similar to all. Thugh the addition of what are called JATE rings seems to handle most situatons. Though JATE rings are really inteded for airlift and tiedown.
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Reply By: gordon g - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 00:04

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 00:04
Try to break the so called "tie down" loops on a troopy with a snatch strap recovery-----NO HOPE
AnswerID: 97024

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 10:54

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 10:54
You maynot break them, but you can straighten them out... its happened numerous times in the past on many 4bs...

I think people are not realising the pressures put on these hooks when some people are a little gungho in the loud pedal department when recovering..
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 19:44

Monday, Feb 07, 2005 at 19:44
"I think people are not realising the pressures put on these hooks when some people are a little gungho in the loud pedal department when recovering.. "

Exactly!
Well said Bruce.
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Reply By: bruce.h (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 09, 2005 at 17:30

Wednesday, Feb 09, 2005 at 17:30
having been around 4wd 4 many years & bieng involved with instructing for around 13 years i can tell you straight up your tie down points do fail they do break

they are not designed to take shock loads, & every time you use one you weaken it so eventualy it will give way.
AnswerID: 97499

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