Replaced Nissan 3.0l engine blown

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 20:27
ThreadID: 20832 Views:2844 Replies:16 FollowUps:21
This Thread has been Archived
Hi, I'm looking for some informed comment on my problem before I get
stuck into it.
After a lot of research, a lot on this site, I recently bought a 2nd
hand well used & much modified 2000 Gu 3l with 98k on the clock. The
previous owner had gone through the dreaded ventilated piston
syndrome at about 40k and had a new late model engine and wiring
harness fitted under warranty.
I have put another 12k on it and it has been brilliant. It's
performance compared to the standard '92 4.2d that it replaced amazes
me. Until last night that is.
Last night about 8pm I hooked up the ski boat and headed for the
south coast. I just got onto the highway and started to hear
a 'buzzing' that was associated with throttle position. Power on buzz
power off no buzz. My first thought was turbo so I pulled into a
garage and popped the bonnet but could hear nothing at idle or when
the engine was revved so I took off again. The buzz was there when
accelerating but not when I backed off. Driving at 50k in third buz ,
knock it out of gear, no buzz (thinking, load on transmision buzz no
load no buzz, is it transmission???) I got into fourth and cruising
at 90k no noise and all was well until it felt as though it had lost
a bit of power so I popped it into neutral at about 90k so I could
listen to the engine and the revs took off with no throttle and I
sent out a smoke screen that would hide a destroyer and the engine
had a rattle like it had thrown a big end. So much for a relaxing ski
weekend!!!!
After a nights sleep my thoughts are.
1. Buzz was high frequency and engine speed dependant so must have
been turbo
2. Buzz only when engine loaded up. Only when accelerating no buss
free revving or cruising. THis I dopnt understand unlass it is to do
with load on the turbo bearings.
3. Turbo failed and the ingested bits holed a piston. Could the revs
taking off with no throttle be engine oil some how getting into the
combustion chambers??
What is your take in the situation?
My dilema now is what to do.
1. Rebuild the 3l (at what cost???)
2. Fit a 4.2td. What will it cost, Gearbox compatability, diff ratios
etc.
3. Sell it as is and start again.

To be fair to the 3l this is probably a turbo failure and nothing to
do with previous 3l problems.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

My son has just turned up with the ski boat on the back of his GQ
4.2d (my old truck with 310k on the clock and still goung strong, why
did I sell it to him) so I will go down the coast and forget about it
for the week end. I dont have internet access there so I will look
forward to some interesting reading on Monday.
ps Sorry for the long post.
PeteB

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Reply By: theshadows - Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 20:43

Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 20:43
this isnt the first nor will it be the last turbo failure...... it is up to you But I perfer the larger 4.2 motor with out the turbo.....

BTW I own a 2.7 TDI
AnswerID: 100403

Follow Up By: PeteB2 - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 22:19

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 22:19
I appreciate all the input , they have been very informative.
I started pulling some bits off this arvo to see what happened.
There was heaps of oil in the inlet tract. I got as far the exit flange on the turbo. The good news is that there is still an impellor in the turbo and it has all its blades. The bad news is that the bearings are stuffed, about 1 mm play, and the impellor has the equivalent wear on the outer perifery.
The next thing to work out is what the knocking noise is. There dosn't seem to be big enough bits missing from the impellor to interfere with the piston.
Does any one know what the piston to head clearance is in the squish band?
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 21:13

Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 21:13
My dilema now is what to do.
1. Rebuild the 3l (at what cost???)
2. Fit a 4.2td. What will it cost, Gearbox compatability, diff ratios etc.
3. Sell it as is and start again.

DOOR #3!!!

I WANT ONE SO BAD..

NO PEOPLE NOTHING EVER HAPPENS TO THEM...

sorry for your pain, but buyin his old car was a mistake I reckon! Its had a hard life.
AnswerID: 100407

Follow Up By: PeteB2 - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 13:20

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 13:20
Hi Truckster
I bought this vehicle with my eyes open. I know its history but thought that a new engine with only 40k on it would keep going for more than a few months.
Pete2
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 13:25

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 13:25
I feel for u dude.. it would suck.. but maybe nissan will shock u and divy up
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 21:16

Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 21:16
Pete,

Sorry to read about your dilemma, but I'm afraid I'm not at all surprised.

There are a number of devoted 3L Nissan owners on here who love their 4 cyl donks and defend them with great vigor. One such bloke used to get into some heated exchanges on here (Puddin is a bloke i class as a mate and I'm sure he won't mind me reminding everybody of his trouble) and a few others still do.

I have tried to get the message across to everyone that what I am about to say is just MY OWN opinion and I do not begrudge anybody else for choosing the 3L donk for their car.

I have driven a 3L Patrol and the owners who love them are quite right: the GOOOO like the clappers and have great throttle response, better fuel economy etc. In fact I'd go so far as to say that every "normal" measure that you and I look at when considering our choice of vehicle, the 3L outshines the venerable old 4.2TD.

So, I'm a reasonably smart sorta bloke, having said all that by way of a big rap for the yu-bute 3L whiz-bang donk, why did I still go for the slug....the 4.2TD????

Because i buy my trucks to hang onto for quite a while. I put too much effort and $$$$ into them to be changing them over every 100,000klm or so. With normal servicing and care I would be extremely surprised if my truck doesn't reach 500,000klm before needing anything approaching substantial work.

Now, in answer to your question.....obviously you have to work out what is really the problem first, but if it ends up being the donk blown and Nissan won't fix under warranty, I'd have to say check out replacing the donk with either a 4.2 or perhaps go the whole hog and get a Chevy 6.5L V8.... You might be able to pick up a 4.2 from the blokes that do the Chev conversions; there are a lot of people who change over for no other reason than the extra power (remember, the 4.2 IS a slug....I freely admit that).

If Nissan do fix it under warranty, I say get rid of it asap after you get it fixed.

Good luck and let us know what happens.......please.

Cheers,

Roachie
AnswerID: 100408

Follow Up By: Des Lexic - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 12:13

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 12:13
Roachie, have you taken leave of youe senses. You failed to mention the best and only real option. BUY a 50 series instead. LOL cya Friday
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 12:24

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 12:24
Yeh, dunno what happened there, I must be gettin old to have forgotten such a "sane" suggestion as "simple; buy a 50 series cruiser" !!! RAOFLMAO.....

We'll cya friday night, but could be getting on a bit by the time we get there....I've gotta go to adelaide on business for the day, don't finish til about 5pm; 2 hours to get home; chuck tin-lids and SWMBO in the trol and then push-start it down the road; back to adelaide by about 10pm; camp about 10-30/11-00pm. If you're asleep when we arrive, we'll make sure you're aware of our safe passage!!!! LOLOL
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Reply By: Peter 2 - Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 21:17

Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 21:17
Most diesels will run quite happily on the sump oil if it can find its way into the intake.
I had a crook crankcase ventilation valve (sort of like a pcv valve) on my 6.2 and going down hill it would reach a point where the revs were up enough it would accelerate all by itself, would give you a bit of a fright sometimes.
Personally I'd fix your donk enough to get it running, sell it and get a 4.2, turbo if you want it, no substitute for cubes, last longer as no where near as stressed as high output smaller motors.
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 100409

Follow Up By: DukeAtty - Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 22:07

Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 22:07
PCV Valve
ABN Number
ATM Machine
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Follow Up By: GUPatrol - Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 23:46

Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 23:46
Dukatty,

I agree with you on the ABN number and ATM machine....

But PCV Valve.... PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation, therefore PCV valve is correct as it would mean:

Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve.

Peter 2,

Oil from the turbo (ie: blown seal) can send a diesel revving to self destruction because as you rightly said diesels can happily run on the stuff but unfortunally running ungoverned it doesn't last too long...
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Follow Up By: DukeAtty - Wednesday, Mar 02, 2005 at 22:48

Wednesday, Mar 02, 2005 at 22:48
Ohhhhh.. i thought it stood for Pollution Control Valve?...
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 23:33

Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 at 23:33
Hi PeteB2,

Sorry to hear about your engine problems. It sounds more like a turbo failure than an "engine" failure, as you already pointed out. The buzz under load sounds like an out of balance turbo and once that happens, they self destruct very quickly. Then as oil leaks from the now shot bearings, the revs rise and the smokescreen starts. But even so, 110,000 kms for any turbo is a very short life.

While the usual 3.0TD knockers have already arrived, they conviniently forget they also have a garret turbo under their bonnets, admittedly not the same variable vane one as in the 3.0TD. The failure of any garret turbo is very rare at these kms and either you are unlucky or some damage was done when the original engine failed.

You would be much better off if it is an engine failure, as it would be covered by Nissan even though its out of warranty. Nissan have been covering the series II engine failures well over 150,000kms. But even if its a turbo failure, i would be arguing the fact that its already had an engine replacement that the turbo may have recieved damage when the initial engine let go. Either way, they have to explain why a turbo has failed so relatively early in its life or hopefully (for you) it is an engine failure.

Hope it all turns out OK.

Cheers

Captain
AnswerID: 100433

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 11:00

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 11:00
"110,000 kms for any turbo is a very short life"

Its already been replaced once.
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 11:26

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 11:26
Truckster, when a series II engine gets replaced, they do not replace the turbo (or at least not the cases I have heard about).
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 19:01

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 19:01
The Turbo itself has failed previously. along with air cond pulleys, gearbox, etc etc etc

Here is the history..
(PostID: 19050)
turbo needed a full rebuild at 80,000kms when it was taken off the motor due to the amount of stress it is under

2 gear boxes
1 engine 3 cracked and 1 holed piston
4 transfer case prop seals
3 or 4 ac compressors
leaky sump (they all do)
clutch was almost done at 55,000kms
cracked flywheel (oil filled)
3 or 4 AF sensors
leaky intercooler (they all do)

diffs were good though

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and his brothers
(PostID: 13244)

I only had it for just over 2 years, It had the clutch replaced @ 55,000km's that was $1500 and a week off the road, can't really put that down to the car error.

only issues were:
2 x Siezed A/c compressors
2 x Sieze Idle PULLEY
1 x shot bearings in the Water pump
1 x shot bearings in the alternator
Cracked Heater pipe
Cracked flywheel
Cracked (4-5 x 1" cracks per rim) to 3 rims
Rear lights fell out
Splash guard under engine cracked and tore (i replaced with a sheet of rubber)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Keep waving the flag and defending them... they are heaps of crap.
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 23:49

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 23:49
Its amazing how a person who has never owned one can judge them so harshly, especially when those who have owned owned them, and even when they have had problems, still reckon they are a good vehicle.

The really sad part for you truckster is that they ARE the future of diesels, whether you like it or not. And there is not a single thing you can do about it, the emission laws have seen to that.

Once upon a time, I remember when all the old die-hards reckoned that electronic ignition on petrol engines was the death knock for reliable engines. Who would even consider buying an engine with points these days - too unrelaible and far too much maintenance!!! Some of the youngsters on this site will not have even seen points on a petrol engine. In fact, there is not a SINGLE petrol vehicle on the market with points ignition.

And diesels have come along even further, especially in the last few years. It used to be that a diesel would continue running if you lost your electrics. Well even the mighty 4.2TD TD6 can no longer do that (you have to fiddle with the EDIC motor and bypass it - who knows how to do that!). All new diesels have similair technology as the Nissan 3.0TD, get used to it!

As for the 3.0TD being "heaps of crap", tell that to the tens of thousand of Renault trucks happily running around Europe. Even in good ol Oz, most of the die hards have resigned themselves to the fact that the 4.2TD is now history.

I am the first to agree that the 4.2TD has been one of the most reliable engines around, but even then, its only a mechanical device and there have been examples of "monday" engines - just not many of them.

I don't know if its jealousy, a size issue or just plain old ignorance but your pathological hatred of the 3.0TD must be stressing you out no end. Take a chill pill and relax. Us owners of the 3.0TD are generally happy with our vehicles, so no need for you to get so hot under the collar.

Cheers

Captain
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Follow Up By: Flash - Thursday, Mar 03, 2005 at 14:22

Thursday, Mar 03, 2005 at 14:22
Well said captain.
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Reply By: kesh - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 08:05

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 08:05
That is bl@@dy tough, and hope the parent co. comes good with a decent refit. But as a "forensic" sort of an aside, are you running a foam type air filter? It seems to be a popular unit in these vehicles. If so, there may be a chance that a lump of foam has broken off and gone through the turbo causing enough damage to destroy it.
Pumping clean air turbo's are very reliable, but at the revs they whistle round at are quite vulnerable to chunks of almost anything.
Just a thought, and good luck with it all
the kesh
AnswerID: 100444

Follow Up By: David N. - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 18:15

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 18:15
Didn't the space shutttle suffer from that problem.....

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Reply By: Member - Banjo (SA) - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 08:42

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 08:42
Hmmmmmmm........I have a sound like a "whipper snipper" going hard , when my TD Jack 3.0 is under load (2000 rpm plus) - nothing at idle, or backing off - maybe I should be worried too ?
Sorry to hear about this calamity - a philosophical view on the costs of motoring is the only answer of course !
BOL.
AnswerID: 100447

Follow Up By: Savvas - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 16:17

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 16:17
Darian ... Reading this thread, I'd be worried if I were you.

Get it looked at !
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Reply By: fourstall2000 - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 09:46

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 09:46
Peteb2, How did I know that Truckster and others would make some useless and stupid response to your question.
However there are some who use this forum for sensible and informed debate.
My 3.0 litre was replaced under warranty 20,000 km ago,it has always had a buzz like a whipper snipper(good description this by others)when accelerating and decelerating under load, and I consider it to be the waste gate operating on the turbo.
Perhaps others can confirm this is the case.
You may find that your motor is Ok when you get round to checking it out (I hope so for your sake).
I am not aware of replaced motors failing in the piston area,but of course the Turbo is a fragile piece of equipment on any vehicle and not immune from failure from various conditions.
Regards
AnswerID: 100452

Follow Up By: 3.0turbob - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 10:24

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 10:24
fourstall2000,
Turbo doesn't have a wastegate, the impellor has variable vanes relative to rpm, therefore no need for wastegate.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 358609

Reply By: muzzimbidgie - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 12:44

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 12:44
OK you guys. It seems to me that all 3.0 patrol owners should put a piece of mesh in the piping somewhere, preferably after the intercooler, to try and stop any bits getting through.

And PeteB, another bloke on here who had a blown donk recons Nissan wanted 20 grand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUT, I'd be gettin' on their case. It's Nissans choice to put a high pressure turbo on a little motor, so if the turbo craps itself and them damages the motor, Nissan should cough up.
AnswerID: 100480

Reply By: David N. - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 18:19

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 18:19
Seriously though, if the original donk failed at 40k and now another, it sounds like it may have been given a VERY hard time by it's former owner, eg: I have a friend with an early 3.0, untouched, and still running like clockwork with close to 200k on it last time I saw him (Christmas).

Good luck with your solution, very unfortunate indeed. I'd be looking at the turbo first, if regularly driven very hard without a cooldown it may well have died with those sort of klms from new. (IMHO They would NOT have replaced it with the donk.)
AnswerID: 100542

Reply By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 18:33

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 18:33
Pete,

Put the acid on Nissan to fix it. If they refuse, you have the option of taking them on in the Small Claims Tribunal or VCAT or whatever it is called in the State you live. If you can present a reasonable case that shows that Nissan should come to the party, you have a very good chance of winning. "Out of warranty" is not a reasonable excuse for them to avoid their responsibilty.

The great thing about taking this action is that no lawyers are allowed, no costs can be awarded and the most you risk is your lodgement fee af about $30. I've done this a number of times including an airconditioner that failed on a Magna that was 18 months out of warranty. Mitsubishi didn't want to know me, but the court awarded full replacement cost to me.

If you want any advice on how to prepare a case I'd be happy to help.

Cheers,

Jim.
AnswerID: 100546

Follow Up By: Paul - Sunday, Mar 20, 2005 at 09:53

Sunday, Mar 20, 2005 at 09:53
Jimbo,

got and email address and time?

I'd like to discuss Small Claims Tribunal....

I can see something brewing

PostID: 21351

paul dot meyer@ optusnet dot co dot au

Paul
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Follow Up By: Paul - Sunday, Mar 20, 2005 at 09:54

Sunday, Mar 20, 2005 at 09:54
should read

paul dot meyer@ optusnet dot com dot au
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Reply By: Eric Experience. - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 22:17

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 22:17
Pete.
Some other possibilities, rebiuld your motor, a set of pistons is under $1k and a replacment turbo about the same, or get an accident damaged vehicle from the auctions use the bits you require and flog of the rest, you may get most of your money back. Given the driving record of the original owner I think you have done well to get as many ks out of it. Eric.
AnswerID: 100596

Follow Up By: PeteB2 - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 22:56

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 22:56
At this stage I dont know that the engine has been trashed. It has obviously ingested "bits " of the turbo impellor. My next step will be to give each cylinder a compression check. I will then determine my next course of action.

At this point I want to say that I am amazed that at least a couple of people on the list have identified the vehicle and its previous history. This was not my intention, I only wanted to give enough background info to get sensible comment.
I want to reiterate that I went into the purchase knowiing most of the vehicles history, I do surf the 4wd web pages, and that I made the decision because of the new motor fitted at 60k.
It is obviously very dissapointring that a turbo failure may have destroyed what was a superbly performing engine but how can you predict that?
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FollowupID: 358748

Reply By: PeteB2 - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 22:24

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 22:24
I'm new to being active on the list so my last response went to the wrong place.

I appreciate all the input , they have been very informative.
I started pulling some bits off this arvo to see what happened.
There was heaps of oil in the inlet tract. I got as far the exit flange on the turbo. The good news is that there is still an impellor in the turbo and it has all its blades. The bad news is that the bearings are stuffed, about 1 mm play, and the impellor has the equivalent wear on the outer perifery.
The next thing to work out is what the knocking noise is. There dosn't seem to be big enough bits missing from the impellor to interfere with the piston.
Does any one know what the piston to head clearance is in the squish band?

AnswerID: 100597

Reply By: ianmc - Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 23:45

Monday, Feb 28, 2005 at 23:45
Piston to head clearance over some of the piston may be virtually zero & maybe a bit of impellor is stuf to head or piston in that area??
AnswerID: 100618

Reply By: fourstall2000 - Wednesday, Mar 02, 2005 at 10:26

Wednesday, Mar 02, 2005 at 10:26
Further to my contribution earlier, I checked my one year warrantee for the replaced engine,it expires in two days.
So having read the other submissions I decided to visit my dealer for an opinion on the buzzing noise on acelleration and decelleration.
Guess what, its the bloody turbo!,this was replaced with the engine 30,000 kms ago.
With 5000 oil changes,and always idled for minutes before shutdown I am very suprised at this development.
Currently the dealer is talking with Nissan to arrange a replacement.
Despite these problems I agree with Captain,these are the future of Diesels but have to accept that Nissan had design problems with the early models.
This is not unique in the motoring world but it would be nice if it was not me involved.
There is no question that I will ride out these problems as the performance and economy outshine any other alternative and Nissan to their credit accept their responsibility for these failures(lucky its not a land rover for instance).
Regards
AnswerID: 100775

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Mar 02, 2005 at 10:46

Wednesday, Mar 02, 2005 at 10:46
If they are the future, it aint good.. infact is chithouse.
I'll buy a stock of TD42s now and store them.
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FollowupID: 358908

Follow Up By: PeteB2 - Wednesday, Mar 02, 2005 at 14:04

Wednesday, Mar 02, 2005 at 14:04
Hi fourstall2000
Did they replace the turbo or do it up? In my case the service invoice says the turbo was overhauled (sublet) at a cost of $709 and not repaired under waranty.
I am still getting my case together to approach Nissan.
Cheers,
Pete
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FollowupID: 358924

Reply By: fourstall2000 - Thursday, Mar 03, 2005 at 09:24

Thursday, Mar 03, 2005 at 09:24
PeteB2 Nissan are still deciding what to do withe turbo so I cannot tell you if the unit will be replaced or recoed at this stage.
I do not really care as long as it is fixed for free under warrantee.
Regards
AnswerID: 100939

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