Monday, Mar 07, 2005 at 19:55
Hi MattandLana,
I have had my off-road Windsor Rapid in some pretty tight
places, to the point where I had both sides of the van reskinned and the rollout awning replaced after one particular track. Also, I have had the van bogged in dry creek crossings (click on rig
pic below and scroll down) and sandy tracks. Basically I have taken my van to its limitations (and beyond!).
At 1.6T loaded for the van, plus my Nissan GU loaded with wife and 2 kids, I reckon I weigh in between 4.5 and 5.0 T all up (190 L water alone). With the Dtronic, I have 420 Nm of torque (Cruiser 4.2TD has 424Nm) and I have never been stuck for lack of power. There are really 2 limitations IMHO when towing offroad.
First is sheer size. There are many tight snaking tracks that you simply cannot manover around (reskinning the van was the end result!). It doesn't matter how "tough" the van is, any aluminium sided van (even fiberglass) cannot argue with a tree. I lost my rollout awning, roof clips, indicators, TV antenae and puntured holes in the side trying to "prove" my van could go where a camper trailer went - IT CANNOT !!! The sheer length results in a wheelbase that cannot manouver around obstacles (believe me, I tried). And my van is only 13"6' when folded up, would hate to try it with the 16-17" tandem axle jobs.
Second is traction. Be it mud or sand, there is only so much traction before you are bogged. I have 33" Cooper ST tyre, bigger and more aggresive than you average All Terrain type most tow with. Have soft sand and an uphill track and be prepared to winch. While letting tyres right down (van as
well), you still have 1.6T of anchor out the back. Beach travel is just a pipe dream, dune travelling is an absolute fantasy. While some hard packed beaches are OK, anything that requires letting down the tyres without a van is a no-no with a van. Simply too much weight. Power is not the issue - traction is.
As for rough tracks, I have never been stopped because of ruts, ravines etc... but have felt like the van was going to roll a few times! With a 6" chassis and going slow, it has ground out many times, but NEVER had any chassis damage. Except the rear jerry can holders, WAY to low and get collected every so often.
Bottom line is, an off-road van is not even in the same league as a camper trailer. Basically an offroad van will go on any gravel road, but will struggle in tight conditions and need winching/snatching in sandy conditions. But I have found that ruts/ravines etc..., are not too much of an obstacle. Wherever a soft roader can go, I can generally get the van to (rut wise). Best thing to do is use the van to get to a good base
camp, then explore from there.
A good off-road van will go on virtually anywhere provided the track is not tight or overgrown and isn't too sandy or muddy. The corrugations is what destroys a normal van and an off-road one should have a significanlty stronger chassis (reduces flex) and much stronger
suspension. Also need better built cupboards etc... to stay together.
Anyway, the above is my experience with towing off-road. I too had ambitions that I could get my off-road van to the same
places as a camper trailer, but simply not true, I have the repair bills to prove it (over $7,000 to reskin van and replace rollout awning).
The
Warburton to
Wiluna road depends on how long since the
grader went thru. I have been through just after the
grader and its a dream run. Cruised between 80-100 km/h (no van) and had a real easy time, just luck of the draw I guess.
Cheers
Captain
AnswerID:
101482
Follow Up By: mattandlana - Tuesday, Mar 08, 2005 at 00:19
Tuesday, Mar 08, 2005 at 00:19
They're GRADING the
Warburton to
Wiluna section of the Gunbarrel now??!! When we went through about 10 years ago I got the impression from the people at
Carnegie (and from the size of the corrugations) that the stretch from
Carnegie to
Warburton last got graded by Len's boys. Stunning countryside though.
Thanks for the
feedback. You sound like a man after my own heart. As I get older/smarter I break the vehicles a little bit less, although that said our near-new Tojo currently has only about 90% of the flimsy factory alloy side steps, and they don't quite follow the original profile ... . Just waiting for the percentage to drop a bit lower and we'll get some real ones.
We have no illusions that any size land yacht will get to everywhere the KK will go (but it sounds like you had fun trying!). I'm just trying to get a handle on the type of
places we won't be able to
camp at any more. We agree that the best bet wil be setting up a base and radiating from there, but you want the base to be in a nice place.
Cheers,
Matt and Lana
FollowupID:
359433
Follow Up By: Member - Kevin (NSW/ACT) - Tuesday, Mar 08, 2005 at 14:28
Tuesday, Mar 08, 2005 at 14:28
Hi Matt and Lana,
I tow a 15' Supreme Getaway with a GU Patrol - 4.2TD and fully endorse everything Captain has stated above.
My van weighs 1700KG (empty on weighbridge) and pretty close to 2000KG loaded for a trip. It's basically a big steel off-road trailer with a caravan body on top.
I will avoid sand like the plague and stay
well away from any track that might be a little tight for all the reasons above. Have not had to re-skin the van but have lost one of the pop-top clips to a tree. Only damage due to corrugations to date was a bedside light fitting that came loose. Dust ingress is minimal and heavy rain doesn't bother it - but towing on a muddy track can be interesting.
It's a heavy sucker, fuel consumption suffers badly (but not even close to a petrol anything) - however the comfort and convenience when you arrive is
well worth the effort in our opinion.
I've taken it on quite a few outback tracks in the SA deserts and some forestry roads in the Watagans with no hint of a problem.
Recently did a 6 week Gulf Trip with a campertrailer and in hindsight would have had no problem with the Caravan.
Hope this helps the decision proccess.
Cheers
Kevin
FollowupID:
359465
Follow Up By: Austravel - Tuesday, Mar 08, 2005 at 19:12
Tuesday, Mar 08, 2005 at 19:12
Well written. Pity your not the norm now-a-day. You see far to many people with vans dragging them into
places they shouldn't. Way to much damage is being done in some areas just because they want to
camp in the same
places as people who tent it. Yes I'm sure it would be nice to be on the first dune 5 metres from the high tide mark but what damage did it do to get there. Not only to the van, vehicle clutch etc but to the bush. Got to say it bleep es me off. A mate has just returned from around Aus over the last 10 mths. Tells me that the bulk of people are making sure they get to do their thing regardless of the damage etc. Worst areas are northern QLD and northern WA. Big numbers of
grey nomads (who should know better) are dragging vans into
places they shouldn't and fishing till they drop, staying weeks or months longer than they are allowed. He said
shell collection is now a big problem in WA. Not meaning to rant as I've raised it before. Just refreshing to hear someone who doesn't wreck it for the next group of use wanting to tour. Am sick of hearing my caravan/camper doesn't do anymore damage or just as easy to get to..... as a loaded 4x4, across the desert, into
the beach etc, etc. Yeh, yeh who they trying to kid.
Good onya Captain.
FollowupID:
359497