recovery gear..specifically shackles

Submitted: Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 17:33
ThreadID: 21326 Views:2940 Replies:10 FollowUps:9
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Last week i attended a club (not4wd) meeting and they had a guest of a 4wd training centre giving pointers etc etc on vehicle recovery.

What supprised me most was the recommendation Not to Use shackles and proceded to show a video why.

If the shackle breaks it becomes a lethal weapon should the strap fail.

Whats the general consensus on this line of thought.
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Reply By: Ozman - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 17:44

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 17:44
Are you refering to unrated shackles?

Rated shackles have markings stamped on them telling you their ratings

AnswerID: 102949

Reply By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 17:52

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 17:52
>If the shackle breaks it becomes a lethal weapon should the strap fail

Well that's double dutch but yeah don't join straps with shackles. The strap will break before the shackle does. It's considered less of a risk if the shackle is at the end of the strap attached to the recovery point but recovery points can let go also.
All makes sense to me
AnswerID: 102952

Follow Up By: Nudenut - Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 11:12

Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 11:12
now i read ...it is aye
stop picking on my double dutch ray

you know what i mean...if the shckle fails ok?
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FollowupID: 360658

Reply By: Crackles - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 18:20

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 18:20
Snatch straps break around 7 to 10 tonne & a 3 tonne rated bow shackle lets go at around 20+ Tonne. That being the case the D shackles will always be attached to the cars when the strap breaks so there is very little risk in using them. Where a shackle can become a missile is when joining 2 straps together with one. If a strap breaks in this case then the D can fly dangerously & have been known to smash through rear windows. When connecting straps together it's far better to feed them through each others eyes with a piece of dowl etc to stop them locking up.
4X4 trainers will always play it on the safe side not recomending D's at all as drivers will often not use rated gear, use undersized shackels, not throw out rusty or cracked gear or connect up to poor quality tie down points. If something lets go in one of these cases then all or part of the D may still go flying.
Cheers Craig............
AnswerID: 102959

Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 19:58

Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 19:58
Said it in one Craig

Well done

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Reply By: Patrolman Pat - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 18:51

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 18:51
Use a shackle as a last resort, If you have rated hooks instead of loops you don't need shackles.
AnswerID: 102963

Reply By: Ralph2 - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 20:52

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 20:52
HI Guys, Mad Dog hit the point, it's not the rated shackle that will let go, it's the recovery point, some attached with out high tensile bolts or on mono construced vechiles ripping a piece out of the chassie. It's recomended that a 5kg weight be attached to the strap one third the distance in from each vechile, to arrest the strap in case the strap breaks,( a drag chain works well) A guy was killed on the Sunshine Coast this week when hit by the recovery hook when snatching. (bolts holding the hook sheared)
AnswerID: 102985

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:17

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:17
Hi Nudie,

Do a bit of fly fishing ???? hehehe A mate of mine gave the talk.

The video was a demonstration of what damage can be done by a broken recovery point. A shackle was attached to a loaded snatch strap and "fired" into a sheet of 20mm ply. Naturally it flew straight thru the ply.

Then it was repeated with an "air brake". Air brake did nothing and went thru the ply with the shackle.

The 5kg weight that Ralph speaks of will go some way towards restraining a runaway shackle - we usually lay a drag chain over the strap.

This stuff is a little controversial, but it dispels the myth of the "air brake" and seeks viable alternatives.

Cheers
Phil
AnswerID: 103014

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:32

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:32
Phil, whats your thoughts on using a secondary restraint from the strap anchored to the vehicle.
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FollowupID: 360626

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:49

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:49
Hi Ray,

Our teaching over this side of the border is changing. We haven't taught secondary restraints.

We now teach to use a bridle on the front as first choice for all snatch recoveries. A bridle being a 3-4 metre strap that works like a sling between the two front recovery points. The bridle is fed through the eye of the snatch strap.

Advantages of a bridle are
#1 that they halve the load on each recovery point, reducing the likelihood of the point breaking
#2 Should one recovery point break, the bridle and shackles will be restrained by the opposite recovery point
#3 The bridle applies the force equally to both sides of the chassis.

Disadvantages are
#1 Needs two recovery points, and a bit more equipment.

My 12000kg tree trunk protector doubles as my bridle, but they can be purchased now from the shops.

Cheers
Phil
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FollowupID: 360630

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 10:24

Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 10:24
Thanks Phil, I'll look into it. Snatching scares the willies outta me so much that If a moderate tug isn't sufficient then I use the winch.
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FollowupID: 360657

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 12:13

Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 12:13
Ray,

Very, very true.

Cheers
Phil
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FollowupID: 360662

Follow Up By: Dean (SA) - Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 16:06

Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 16:06
Phil, I have an NM Pajero and was taught to use this method because of the monocoque. I use 2 rated shackles and a tree trunk protector, this is to be used front and rear. I think this is what your referring to. MMAL also reccommend this technique.
Dean
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FollowupID: 360679

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 16:30

Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 16:30
Hi Dean,

Bridle recovery was being taught because of the reason you mentioned, but not often used. But over the last couple of years, more vehicles have come out with monocoque chassis, dodgy recovery points, and safety issues are getting more publicity, and assuming more importance.

So the thinking is changing, which is currently why bridle recovery is now our first choice for the front of all vehicles.

For the rear, we still recommend to fit a heavy duty towbar with the square hitch and slip the strap into the square hitch and secure with the high tensile pin. There will be people here who say you'll bend the pin, but the pins this side of the border must be stronger :-)) The towbar distributes force over both sides of the chassis, so I personally would be be happy with using the reat towbar on the latest paj.

Didn't Mitsubishi say that snatch recovery was OK on the Paj without reference to a bridle?? It was a couple of years ago, so I'm getting hazy.
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FollowupID: 360681

Follow Up By: Nudenut - Monday, Mar 21, 2005 at 16:31

Monday, Mar 21, 2005 at 16:31
phil...i cant fish....so swmbo says anyhow
but I do try.....hahaha
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FollowupID: 360893

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:37

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:37
The only time I would use a shackle was if I had NO OTHER CHOICE. And even then I would use an equaliser strap on two points.
AnswerID: 103020

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:52

Friday, Mar 18, 2005 at 23:52
Last weekend we had a sand driving session at Peake - 20 vehicles, and I'd almost guarantee that every vehicle had different type/position/ system for recovery points. It was a good opportunity to learn about whats on other vehicles because its the other vehicle's recovery point that can break and kill you.
AnswerID: 103025

Reply By: peterK - Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 19:14

Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 at 19:14
Although I try to always use a bridle, I agree about the pajero. I read about a year ago where MMA went out and did 9 single point recoveries to test whether there was any structural concerns. The result was no it was okay.

But dont take my word as gospel (lol) I could dig up the article though.

The test was about dispelling single point recoveries - pretty sure not about discounting the benifits of using a bridal.
AnswerID: 103110

Reply By: MrBitchi - Monday, Mar 21, 2005 at 16:40

Monday, Mar 21, 2005 at 16:40
Here's the Mitsubishi article.

[ View Image]

Cheers, John.
AnswerID: 103320

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