high speed wobble landcruiser 75 series

Submitted: Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
ThreadID: 2167 Views:15967 Replies:21 FollowUps:9
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Hi, I have recently purchases a 1992 Landcruiser utility 75 series with an extremely bad speed wooble. At about 90km/h and faster the car begins to vibrate and then 'wobble' from side to side and will in fact veer off the road if you don't slowly brake and gear down. The steering wheel is affected too and veers from side to side. It has done 190 000km and I don't know its history.

I've had wheels balanced and aligned and a faulty castorline(?) replaced. The whell alignment place mentione that the wheels were not perfectly round (I don't know how many or how badly), is this the problem?

It can occur when driving straight or cornering. Hope someone has some insights to this one!

Thanks
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Reply By: Steve - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
Justin : sounds like you have a tyre problem, you dont say where you are! but suggest you take it to a specialist tyre shop (Tyrepower ? ) and see if the tyres are 'separating' or have any bad damage / bumps in them... wheel balancing off the car (on the machine) will not always show the problem! What sort of tyres are they ?
AnswerID: 7520

Follow Up By: Justinb - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
I'm in Brisbane, QLD. They look pretty new and in good condition, but who knows how long the car has been sitting on them in the caryard? they may have even come off another car in the lot. Hard to say.

I think (cars at home, me at work) they are Khumo AT's or something like that.
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FollowupID: 3451

Reply By: Member - Mal - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
Justinb, My daughter had a nissan patrol (I still haven't forgiven her) that had a similar (and many other) problem. After many hours and dollars a bloke reckoned it was the steering damper. I thought this unlikely but replaced it anyway and "voila", that was it. It was almost as good as a Toyota. Give it a go! Good luck, Mal T.
AnswerID: 7525

Follow Up By: Justinb - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
Thanks Mal, I hadn't thought of that and nobody I've spoken to has mentioned it.

Could a faulty steering damper cause the whole car to sway from side to side as the vibrations get worse? Also, do you have any idea of the cost involved?

Thanks
Justin
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Reply By: Member - Mal - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
Justinb, it fixed my daughter's problem that sounds the same as yours. ARB sell them for $107 and fit for $28 = $135. Anyway, pull off one end and give it a shove and a pull. there should be equal resistance in both directions and the faster you push/pull the greater the resistance. Mal T.
AnswerID: 7527

Reply By: Truckster - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
The wheels are not round, I would say that is your problem..

Imagine how rough it would be driving down the road on boxes... Same effect.
AnswerID: 7528

Follow Up By: Justinb - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
It does sound like it coud be the problem. However, the problem seems so bad that I thought it had to be more serious than the wheels.

The car builds up this momentum of rocking from side to side that gets worse and worse and will (and has) become so uncontrollable that it dives across the road. I didn't think that off-round wheels could have such severe side-effects.

If no-one else has any other suggestions I'll replace the steering damper first (it's cheaper) and then the wheels.
Thanks
Justin
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FollowupID: 3458

Reply By: Truckster - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
Fix one problem at a time. Then you will know what the problem is.

You have been told the wheels (or tires?) are cactus. Fix that, and you may be looking for somethign that isnt there. Meaning once the wheels are sorted out and probably wheelbearings by now stating the shaking that is happening...

Where do you live?? What state are you in?? If in Melbourne, call Alan at Outback Accessories in Seaford, he does all the work on my truck, and its well and truly not standard :-D Nothin but 100% good stories from the people Ive sent to him for work..
AnswerID: 7530

Follow Up By: Justinb - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
That's a good point about it being the wheels or the tyres, as they are very different problems. I can't recall exactly what the Pedders bloke said, it could have been wheels or tyres. I assume it is more likely to be wheels??

I live in Brisbane, any recommendations about who to see?
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FollowupID: 3459

Reply By: Truckster - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4wd_out_of_brisbane/

Theres LOTS of good people on this list that will point you in the right direction.
AnswerID: 7531

Reply By: mudgutz - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
mmm could be the wheels .....fix them first....second put a new steering damper in it.......if its still doing it ....its gotta be the kingpin bearings at 190000 kms its a good chance it is as mine lasted 230000
the easiest way to find out if its the kingpins is to jack up the front so as the wheels are off the ground and grab the wheel top and bottom as in 12 and 6 on a clock......try and move the wheel by pulling the top towards you and the bottom away and vica versa if you feel any movement at all its these bearings if you get to find its the kingpin bearings a good tip is to do the axle seals and the wheel bearings and fibre washers whilst your in there...a kit is available it cost me 138 bucks for the kit ......but its a prick of a job ..dirty and takes a good six hours have plenti of solvent for washing the parts on hand youll also need graphite grease for the cvs and htb grease...when puttin it back together dont be afraid to fill the thing right up with grease as it helps keep the water out of that very exxy$$$$$ front diff housing
my two bobs worth
mudgutz 75 series trooper
AnswerID: 7537

Follow Up By: Coops - Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00
Justin, my very recent first hand experience with repairs after bearing failure tells me to recommend that you do as Mudgutz says anyway as repair costs are astronomical and at least you'll know where you stand.
I replaced a steering damper when it should have been bearings.
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FollowupID: 3478

Reply By: johnsy - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
had trouble with khumos before and they were out of round. jack each wheel so its just touching the ground and see if there is even pressure to turn the wheel also stand a large socket with a extension in it on the side of the tyre nearly touching and see if the gap is equal when rotated that will help determine how true your tyres are. cya johnsy
AnswerID: 7539

Reply By: Bob Y. - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
justinb, Pretty scarey happenings, and while I agree with Mudgutz, you might want to check the adjustable tie-rod ends. We had a 60 series that got the wobbles, scared hell out of mum in law, that sound similar to yours. It turned out to be those joints, you'll need to replace the cups, springs, and probably the ball that bolts into the arm/rods. They may only need adjusting too. If I'm off the mark, then go Mudgutz way, and do the King pins. The older 45's used to break the studs holding the steering arms, when the king pin brgs collapsed, and the lose of steering, at 80 clicks, could give you a buzz. As for the kingpins, I'd recommend they get greased every 10K clicks. Catch you later....
AnswerID: 7544

Reply By: royce - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
My first thought was steering damper. Off round wheels sound bad. Have you rotated them. Swap front for back. If the wheels are the problem, you should notice something. Sound dangerous!! cheers Royce
AnswerID: 7555

Reply By: Derek - Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00

Thursday, Oct 17, 2002 at 00:00
Justin. Find a mate who has similar wheels and swap them and see if the problem goes away. I agree with the comments about the steering dampener. Next check loose wheel bearings, loose/worn trunion bearings, worn tie rod ends, loose steering box, worn internals of steering box and lastly, seeing as you said the car rocks from side to side, what are the state of the front shockies? Try Fulcrum Suspension at Coopers Plains or The Bump Shop at Eagle Farm or Bob Gears at Northgate. It could be that there are several things causing your troubles.
AnswerID: 7556

Reply By: Ferret - Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00
Greetings, a mate had a heap of trouble with a 75 troopie and spent a small fortune trying to fix it following "Expert" advice. Turned out to be a couple of bucks worth of suspension bushes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AnswerID: 7577

Follow Up By: Justinb - Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00
Yep, I appreciate everyone's thoughts, I guess the point is that it could be one of any number of things. About the only thing I can rule out are the shocks, as I had brand new ones put in as soon as I bought the car (front and back).

My plan will be: (one at a time of course!)
1 - check the steering damper and replace if neccessary
2 - rotate the tyres and see if it makes a difference
3 - replace the suspension bushes
4 - replace the tyres
4 - replace the kingpin bearings
5 - replace the tie-rod ends

if the problem is still there, then I guess the only thing will be to drive slowly for the rest of my life...
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FollowupID: 3480

Follow Up By: Mudgutz - Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00
geeeeee yeah justin if you have to do all that to get it right then you have real trouble.....lmfao...if its still not right after all that stuff check the chassis its 630mm between front rails ...........if thats wrong then insure it well and burn it shortly afterwards cause its never gonna drive straight...........good point above but about the bushes???? it could be that ..........however in my experience bushes will cause a clunking before they cause a shudder....bloody bad bushes if its them
sh(t its friday night and ive had to many VBs......hope you get it right..
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FollowupID: 3493

Reply By: andy - Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00
This might sound strange but check your tailshaft nuts on the u bolts. Loose ubolts nuts caused a similar symptom in a 93 troopy. Also check the front and rear bushes on the springs, sway bars and tie rods etc. If the car has been near the sea air or used for heavy towing the wear on these parts will have increased. And make sure that the front hubs are on "Free" when on the tar. Andy
AnswerID: 7589

Reply By: mudgutz - Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00

Friday, Oct 18, 2002 at 00:00
bleep ....ive read all the replys and had a good think about it.......its not the bushes ......they clunk .......its not the shockies ...they only wobble under braking its gotta be the bearings ...do what i said and youll get it right.......im confident ......if not bring the sod round to my joint and we will fix/ burn it together.......good luck ....mudgutz
AnswerID: 7602

Reply By: glenn - Saturday, Oct 19, 2002 at 00:00

Saturday, Oct 19, 2002 at 00:00
king pins and drag link adjustment mate.try steering damper and wheel bearings,tighten steering bix and u should be right. been a 4wd mech for last 20 yrs and nothing we cant fix mate,let me know how you go
AnswerID: 7613

Reply By: Les - Saturday, Oct 19, 2002 at 00:00

Saturday, Oct 19, 2002 at 00:00
I think before you start spending too much money Justin, drop into a panel beaters and see if it's been in a good prang, sounds like a chassis problem to me....good luck....Les
AnswerID: 7615

Follow Up By: Justinb - Saturday, Oct 19, 2002 at 00:00

Saturday, Oct 19, 2002 at 00:00
bugger..I'd hate to find out it was a chassis problem due to a prang. To be honest, that had crossed my mind so I have had a look but i gather that the job can be done so well these days that only an expert would be able to tell.

and if it is a chassis problem I'm not sure what could be done about it - I wouldn't want to sell the car onto somebody else, wouldn't be fair. I'll try and take in this week to a place someone recommended and get them to look at the kingpin bearings and tie-rod ends
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FollowupID: 3502

Reply By: Benau - Saturday, Oct 19, 2002 at 00:00

Saturday, Oct 19, 2002 at 00:00
justin I have spent the last 5 years working on 75 series amongst other toyotas both in the mines and in a country dealer. high speed wobble can be caused by a number of things from worn shackle rubers to worn springs where the leaves walk side to side or even loose "u" bolts. (front and rear)The steering the dampner is used to prevent a light steering wheel at speed and prevent it turning violently when you hit a rock etc. other possible causes are wear in the steering linkages or the steering box check underside of box for leaks. the king pin bearings should deffinately be suspected if there is an mix of oil and grease or diff oil leaking form the steering knuckles, this would only be seen of course if the diff still has oil in it. all toyota "live axle" front ends weat the king pins in the straight ahead position so play might only be felt in a jacked up wheel at straight ahead then theres the wheel bearings, the front and rear bearings in a cruiser are adjustable a loose rear hub will cause a violent wobble. as will a bent rim or distorted tyre if you still havent found it then the chassis is probably twisted, This is not a order of diagnosis just a list of possible causes, have fun
AnswerID: 7621

Reply By: Rossco - Sunday, Oct 20, 2002 at 00:00

Sunday, Oct 20, 2002 at 00:00
I had severe wheel wobble etc at speed in my 75 troopy earlier in the year. I checked everything out and found the main problem was the shockies. I replaced them and problem solved. It may not be your problem but it does not take to much effort to whip them off and test them out. Cheers
AnswerID: 7651

Reply By: Bob Y. - Sunday, Oct 20, 2002 at 00:00

Sunday, Oct 20, 2002 at 00:00
justinb, With all the advice you've received over the last few days, it's going to cost you a fortune to fix everything, so give the '75 the ol' flick pass and buy something else that doesn't get the wobbles. I hope you let us know what the final outcome is, I'm going to be redfaced if it's not the tie-rod ends or king pins! Lively thread, eh? Regards
AnswerID: 7654

Reply By: colin - Sunday, Oct 20, 2002 at 00:00

Sunday, Oct 20, 2002 at 00:00
Justin, you havent said whether you are running split rims or solid. If they are split see if the locking bead is not seated in the right position, ie the split opposite the valve stem, also look at the tube, inside the tyres and the rubber sleeve. try putting the rear wheels on the front, also look at the pressures the tyres are set at. The way the tread is wearing can give a good insight into how the mechanics of the vechicle are, ie worn bearings king pins etc. I also live in brissy and have some tyres and rims that you can try. My email is kiwicol@optusnet.com.au Experince has shown me to take the cheapest and least logical path first. Regards Col
AnswerID: 7655

Reply By: justinb - Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 at 01:00
Ok, here's some feedback about my problem with the wobble. I had the tyres swapped front and back. Also, one the rims was quite badly damaged, so it was moved from the front left to the back left. Also one of the tyres are not perfectly round (as mentioned earlier) and this was moved to the back too.

The result? Haven't had the wobble since and I have driven it a fair bit to try and 'make' it happen. The truck still gets an odd vibration at about 90 km's p/h which goes away if you keep accelerating, so maybe the kingpin bearings do need looking at.

However, the important thing is that the wobble seems to have disappeared - when I can afford it I'll replace both tyres and rims (Khumo and Sunraysia cheap crap at the moment). Anyway, thanks for your help on this one everyone, much appreciated!

Cheers
Justin
AnswerID: 8015

Follow Up By: Member - Melissa - Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 at 01:00
Good to hear Justin. Been watching this thread to see how you got on. Nothing worse that thinking you've either bought a dud or gunna have to spend a fortune. :-) Melissa
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FollowupID: 3787

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