Towing Incident

Derek, many years ago, I had the pleasure (not) of my van attempting the same passing manouvre. I fitted a set of anti sway bars and would never tow a van without them again. It took all the sway out of the system and the van tracked like it was on rails.
A couple of things you could look out for; are the electric brakes set to come on before the vehicle brakes; have you the correct weight on the tow hitch that the vehicle is designed for.
As for the likelihood of it happening again, who can say but if you do nothing, I guess it is more likely to happen again.

Sorry and surprised to hear of your mishap. Obviously something was wrong but I assume your tow vehicle is heavy and the van is relatively lighter. Weight at the extremes of the van, ie far forward or at the rear could give some explanation or possibly more weight in the rear of the tow vehicle would have helped?? Often it can be better to drive out of these situations rather than reduce power or brake. The trucks passing you tend to highlight a deficiency in the tow set up or car/van combination. You must be pretty relieved in getting out of this....despite the bl##dy damage!!

Derek, you were relatively lucky, at least you're alive. I can't offer any advice as I refuse to tow anything larger than a 6X4 trailer.
Many years ago my father had a similar experience. He was also very lucky at that time. Ever since, I've shuddered when seeing bits of vans along the roadside.
Now I know that thousands of vans arrive safely at their destinations every night. And I can appreciate the joys of taking your home with you. But it's not for me.
Bad luck and I hope others can offer constructive comments.

derek
great to hear your uninjured
possibly could have accelerated to bring both into line(easier said than done) but at end of day you are ok just miss out on holiday and can put down as one of those things
im sure insurance shouldnt give you any problems-at least hope so
go buy tatts ticket and hope all goes well
cheers
fozzy

Sorry for what happened Derek but you did it all wrong.

You HAD to accelerate to regain straight line stability. Braking was the worst thing to do and made the situation worse.

This principle is similar to 4wding on steep slippery hills. Use the brakes and the car will want to swap ends.

Hope the insurance does it job.

Cheers

John D

I remember coming home from Pambula with a caravan. It would get the sways up terribly and we stopped to check things. Someone stopped and told us that it was because we had packed it all wrong. They said we had too much weight at the ends and that it developed a pendulum type motion. We moved a lot of things out of the ends - partcularly the back as it is not attached to anything- annexe and bags and bike etc onto the floor over the axles at towed heaps better.

Andrew

Is this the Ring Rd incident?

If so, you must be close to me.

Plenty of room left in the Coaster if you still want to get away up the Hills this weekend for a few days.

email me if you like.

iMusty

Sorry to hear about your mishap Derek. Great to hear that the only damage was to machinery! When you say "I applied my electric caravan brakes, but it didn't stop it", do you mean you applied the van breaks indepenently of the towing vehicle?

Hi,

I know the feeling - similar happened to me in a Suzuki Sierra and more lately nearly lost a load with Discovery. Try posting on the following site which a popular Landrover site and the people there might be able to advise something that is specific to Discovery's.

Gazz

http://www.aulro.com//index.php

I've got to agree about the acceleration as the correct cause of action. I don't tow vans, too much hassel IMHO, but there are a lot of people who do and love it!
I have done my fair share of towing though and some quite heavy loads with smaller vehicles at times. I've had some viscous sways a couple of times, once towing some limstone blocks. It felt ok (heavy but ok) and I was towing with a brand new subaru forrester. No problems, 60k's an hour through the burbs but as soon as I touched the brakes she went all over the road!! I HAD to throttle up to get back onto my side of the road and get the beast under control, then coast gently to a stop, turn around and head back to take some of the load off. Scared the crap out of me. Can't imagine what you would have been going through, bet your still white knuckled!!

two things to do are: a) keep an eye on approaching semis coming up from behind, slow down as they approach and then accelerate as they draw level with you b) apply brake controller by hand. Touch wood, I've never had to apply my brake controller by hand and wonder if I would even do that spontaneously, but I do keep a keen eye thru my wing mirror for approaching high vehicles overtaking me. I usually ease off the gas and then hit the gas as the truck reaches me. I'll be even more vigilant from now. It's these trucks coming up from behind that are the danger, more so than the ones bombing past in the opposite direction.

Hi Derek
If you havnt already, buy a lottery ticket....from what youve said, you should be in hospital.
I would say that the most probable answer is the van had too little ball weight...or too much weight over the back of the axle.
This is extremely dangerous, as the weight dist bars arnt effective anymore, and the rear tyres of the prime mover have less weight on them...the rear suspension is not sitting level (under its own weight) etc etc etc on bumps
Hope all goes well with insurance ;-)
Andrew

As I was driving up to the right rear corner of a F100 dual axle trailer combination years ago in a dual lane situation it suddenly got the serious wobbles with the driver almost losing control as you describe.
The trailer was loaded to the rear with gravel and for me it drilled in the notion of making sure I always load trailers to provide weight on the drawbar.
When starting out on a new trip I always try out the stability of the set up by trying to induce some sway. If it didn't come under control as soon as I stopped swinging the wheel I'd rejig the load.
It's worked so far.
I assume that low tyre pressures on either the vehicle or the van wouldn't help much once any sway was started.
Congrats on your escape from personal injury.
Camper

Derek
What a nightmare, but I feel that dozer's reply is probably the closest, its all to do with drawbar weights and braking/accelerating at appropriate times plus the unkn own impact of wind and suction from offending heavy vehicle. Have towed vans/boats for 35 years and had a few scary moments, often when loading was marginal.
Glad your OK
ding

If the van went on its side first then the car was taken over by the twisting motion of the van on the hitch the roll over of the car may have been avoided if the hitch had a 360 degree swivel. Not sure if any do & certainly a sway or level ride device linking the van & car would surely tend to turn the car over & prevent such a device from working.
The high centre of gravity of the Disco would not help in maintaining control but that is not totally avoidable in a 4wd.
Derek, your post has intriduced a note of caution into my head as I have just bought a 15' pop top, and it may well save others from such a fate too. Well done.

Glad to hear you're OK Derek but sorry about the accident. Number one rule if a sway develops is DON'T TOUCH THE BRAKES!!!!! Contrary to one person above accelerating is never out of the question. Think of it this way, if you apply more power to the tow vehicle it will straighten the combination. If the speed limit is 100 or even 110kph then that is the best speed to travel at because the problem was at least partially caused by the difference in speed between the truck and you. I mean if you had been travelling at or near the same speed as the truck, the effect would have been much less. Keep in mind too that many truck drivers are not big on brains. Just a day ago a B double ended up on its side while coming off the Bolte Bridge. There are signs giving plenty of warning and even if there weren't it is obvious that there is a bend to negotiate but he went into to it so fast that the whole thing tipped over!!!! There are numerous truck accidents on freeways because so many just don't know how to handle big rigs. They may know how to get a licence but that's about all.

Hi Derek,
When you say you applied the electric brakes, did you apply them through the controller or with your foot? If you applied the brakes with the controller, then you have done the right thing. This acts in the same way as accellerating (you are creating a pulling force between the car and van). As for sitting on the speed limit, you should just travel as fast as you feel comfortable with.
Cheers...Stolzy

Hi Derek,

I have not towed caravans but I have towed a lot of boats. My current boat wieghs in at 2100kg and is 3 metres high. I can tow it at any speed up to 120km/h (I usually sit on 100km/h) and it is rock steady. I often travel corrigated roads and depending on conditions will still travel at 100km/h. Some times this involves braking hard when approaching creeks etc. I have never had any stability problems. Road trains coming the other way have no effect. I have about 7% of the boats wieght on the tow ball and am always careful with this. My vehicle is a LC100 TD which ways in at 2760kg plus load.

My point is that any towing rig should be stable if there is sufficient wieght on the ball and the vehicle is up to it. If there was a hint of instability I would stop and find out why.

Glad to here you are ok and hope the insurance is sorted in reasonable time.

Cheers,
Topend.

Derek,
Glad to hear you escaped without injury but your experience has caused me a fair bit of concern. I've just purchased a Regent Xtreme and will be picking it up in a few weeks. What vintage was your caravan? I assume you had a Hyland hitch on the caravan that swivels like a universal joint (sort of) as I think they are a standard inclusion. This should mean if the van tipped it doesn't necessarily follow that your vehicle would be flipped as consequence. I will read the responses to your unfortunate experience with more that a passing interest.

Good luck with your insurance

Thanks for all your posts. They've been very helpful and have given me many insights into what was right and wrong, prior to and during the accident.

Just for the record:

> Yes, I was on the Western Ring Road around Melbourne, Tuesday afternoon 3rd May
> I was watching constantly for overtaking trucks in my towing mirror and getting ready to compensate for the suction when they went past.
> The brakes I applied were the independent electric caravan brakes through the hand controller which normally straighten me out when this sort of thing happens
> I didn't touch the footbrake, but I did take my foot off the accelerator
> I realise that I should have accelerated but as I veered across 2 lanes of a crowded freeway at around 80 - 90 kph, it was against instinct. Also, I didn't have time to change gear to get any sort of power under acceleration.
> Though not a treg, the hitch is a modified ball hitch with a 360 degree swivel (I think it's a Hyland) - although I note the fact that the weight distribution hitch may inhibit its effectiveness.

In future, I will:

> modify my towing technique and take the advice to ease off the gas as I see trucks approach so I can accelerate as they go past.
> I have already "mastered" the technique of applying the caravan brakes through the hand controller and figure that accelerating at the same time as applying the caravan brakes can only amplify any damping effect on a potential sway.
> check the loading layout - I had picked up some annexe walls earlier and I just put them on the floor at the rear of the van, which would definitely have affected the balance of a lightly loaded van.
> have a look at anti-sway bars.

Just like when 4WDriving, I have learnt from experience that my instincts (in this case, not to accelerate) have to be overcome. I hope if it ever happens again, I will react differently with a much improved outcome.