Power problems 80 Diesel

Submitted: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:07

ThreadID: 22893 Views:3746 Replies:13 FollowUps:9

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Ando80

Hi guys, I am new to this forum and have a problem with my 80 series.

I have recently fitted a turbo to the vehicle after believing it was under powered to tow my van. (van is a Viscount Aerolite which I have heavily modifed the chassis and suspension - in otherwords, it ain't light anymore!) A recent trip from Geraldton to Perth had me sitting at maximum speed of 90km/h. I felt that this was a bit slow, but considering the 80 is my first diesel I figured thats what i get for wanting reliablility and fuel economy. Problem is I also used over 90 litres over a 400km trip!

After this i decided that we would have to bite the bullet and part with $3500 on a Denco turbo. This has improved my power and i can now sit on 100km/h if i want, but overtaking is still risky.

From what I have heard and read through searches of this forum, it appears that my vehicle is still not producing the power it is supposed to and when compared with my relatives 91 80 series turbo diesel, mine is very slow!

I had it fitted at Turbotech and they ran it on the Dyno which, not knowing too much about dyno's, I thought it would show up any problems if there were any???

The dyno results were before turbo, max power of 44.1kw @ 3248rpm at rear wheels and after turbo 59.5kw @ 3132rpm.

1. Do these figures sound right?? (considering one thread about a 60 series with a 1hz and denco turbo that gave up to 90kw at the rear wheels)

2. If not, can you suggest anyone in Perth that has the right experience to help me? (I would go to Westend Diesel or similar, BUT, its a bit far to drive over there for a service!)

3. And one other things is that when towing the van, i can have my foot to the floor changing down gears up hill, and my mate with his 3L turbo diesel hilux (who's right behind me, trying to pass!) can not see one bit of black smoke, yet it seems to use excess fuel?

Any information or advice would be great.. I work on most cars myself but as for the injection systems, i have no idea.

Further info in case anyone wonders is, has done 270,000km, is fitted with a safari snorkel (and i checked for a restrictor), 2 1/2 inch mandrel exhaust, running 285 tyres and it doesn't overheat at all.. And on dyno says it is running 8.8psi max boost.

As I said, if it is just how diesels are, and it due to me running 285's then so be it, but it just doesn't seem right?

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Reply By: crfan - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:16

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:16

How heavy is the van you sre towing?

AnswerID: 110802

Follow Up By: Ando80 - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:24

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:24

I haven't weighed it yet, started at 940kg, estimating loaded up, is around 1.5 to 1.8t planning to weigh it on next trip.

Other thing is, even when not towing it seems rather slow off the mark, considering it should now be putting out about 135kw at the flywheel. Also, it is a standard, which being part-time, I would have thought should perform better also.

My relies one is a 91 model sahara, so alot heavier and also running constant 4x4, and it runs rings around me! ( From memory, they only had 115kw at the flywheel?)

Being my first diesel, its just a bit confusing and i don't want to be wasting my money at a diesel specialist if there isn't anything wrong with it!

FollowupID: 367236

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:26

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:26

Those power figures you quote on the dyno are woeful. I would have expected it to do at least 85kw or more at the rear wheels.
Although it may be out of your way a bit, I reckon a trip to the "experts", like Westend diesel, would be money well spent. Adding a turbo is only the start....the pump needs to be tweaked, timing set/adjusted and injectors set properly too. I would of thought that all would have been done when turbo was installed, but possibly not.
Good luck
Roachie

AnswerID: 110805

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:28

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:28

Just remembered, the tyres could be another factor.....285s are probably a bit too tall.

FollowupID: 367238

Follow Up By: Ando80 - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:33

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:33

Thanks Roachie, Thats what i thought about the tuning etc, thought it would have been done also, but all they apparently did was adjust the mixture screw!.. The 285's would make a bit of a difference, but the power that i thought and obviously you thought it should get, is almost a further 40%, wouldn't have thought it would make that much of a difference?

FollowupID: 367241

Reply By: Footloose - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:35

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 12:35

Join http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lcool_aus/. They can help with all your 80 series questions.

AnswerID: 110808

Reply By: prado4x4 - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 13:08

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 13:08

As for someone in Perth who may be able to help.
Try Robson Bos. They specialize in 4WDs and do lot of good work.

www.robsonbros4wd.com.au for contact details, etc.

Hope it helps .............

John

AnswerID: 110817

Reply By: Max - Sydney - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 16:57

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 16:57

Ando

Dopey question - but are you sure the cvan is not dragging its brakes? I pull a poptop with all up weight about 1500 kg with a 97 80s non turbo diesel.

I can do 100+ in rolling country like from Geraldton to Perth, though i sit on 80 to 90, and average about 16 l/100 km fuel usage.

Based on six months travelling I have decided not to put a turbo on the beast.

I would do two things on the van:

1. Jack up each wheel and make sure they are free
2. Make sure the handbrake has to go at least six clicks from off to tight - any tighter can pull the brakes on as the suspension compresses. That sort of drag would drink a lot of fuel.

That does not deny the need to check out the turbo.

Good luck
Max

AnswerID: 110850

Follow Up By: Ando80 - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 17:59

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 17:59

Thanks for the reply Max, No, there is no probs with brakes, all brakes are brand new and we set them up when we reinforced the chassis suspension etc and the wheels spin freely.

Even without the van behind it appears sluggish. I struggle to get that mileage when not towing anything! Going by what the general thoughts are, I will definitely have to get pump and injectors checked (i think), just have to find a reputable company in Perth (or Gero, though it appears we only have one!) who specialises in 4x4 diesel injection? as the only ones you hear about are the specialists over East..

FollowupID: 367296

Reply By: Member - Toolman (VIC) - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 18:45

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 18:45

Ando,
Just to compare notes, I recently had my series 80 turbo'd at AXT in Dandenong Victoria. The figures you quote for power and torque are close to the readings I got from the dynamometer. My readings were:
Max torque at wheels 413.5Nm @ 66 Km/h
Max Power at wheels 58.7 kW @ 112 Km/h.

I think the boost was around 8 PSI but don't hold me to that.

I had the injectors and fuel pump fully tested and adjusted to suit the turbo (garrett) as part of the fitting and the people at AXT reported everything was normal. I was a bit concerned with the KM's on the clock but since the truck has been nothing more that a glorified "Toorak tractor" up to now its not done much real work yet (that's yet to come).

My LC has done 154,000 Km and has the standard alloy wheels and tyres that came with the 1997 GXL 40th Anniversary model. It does not have a snorkel yet.

I've not done any serious driving with it since fitting the turbo but having owned it from new I can say that there is a noticable increase in power which I notice in 4th and 5th gears where I can actually accelerate from lower revs instead of having to change down. Fuel economy wise pre turbo I averaged around 11.80 litres per hundred kilometers. I'll keep you posted on the post turbo results.

AnswerID: 110874

Reply By: Exploder - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 18:52

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 18:52

Gday Ando80

Just done some quick mental math’s
The (Factory) turbo 79 series are 122Kw at the fly – off loss 30% make’s them roughly 85 at the wheels. A non-turbo 79 is 67.2 at the wheels. That gives them 17.8 Kw from the turbo

Your 80 series got 15 ½ Kw out of the turbo so the KW gains are around the same, but 44 stock and 60 after turbo still seem a bit low.

What year is it?
How many KW do the 80 series diesel’s put out normally

What were your toque figures like, if you didn’t get a good boost there then you know something is wrong.

AnswerID: 110878

Follow Up By: Exploder - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 18:58

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 18:58

Sorry mist toolman’s post his is probably a better comparison, and it is practically identical to yours.

FollowupID: 367309

Follow Up By: Ando80 - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 20:29

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 20:29

Unfortunately the torque curves are on the dyno graph but it does not state the actual figure and there is only kw down the side of the graph.

It is a 1996 model and from memory factory figures for the engine are around 96kw standard.

Going by your loss of about 30% down the driveline, that equates to about 67.2kw at the rear wheels, which is more than its putting out with the turbo. Got me stuffed!

FollowupID: 367326

Reply By: 80scruiser - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 20:57

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 20:57

Gday ando
I have a denco fitted to my 80 and you will not notice too much in 1st and 2nd but 3rd and 4th and 5th is greatly improved.
I only have 7psi boost and as mine is high km's as well I would rather be a bit conservative rather than having a drama with the donk.
As for the relos 80, the factory turbo runs a different engine. The 1hdt is a direct injection engine where as the 1hz still uses a precombustion chamber style. The 1hz will never go as well as the factory unit.
You can get them cracking buy cranking up the boost and fuel but its not worth the consequences. The engine will go bang. Check out this and follow the llinks in this page.
Best of luck but I would err on the side of caution.

AnswerID: 110904

Follow Up By: Ando80 - Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 22:23

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 at 22:23

80scruiser,

Thanks for the reply, I understand that the factory turbo engine is direct injected and the 1hz isn't but the power figures quoted give the 1hz with a turbo (for example the denco) a distinct advantage.. apparently the factory one puts out 115kw and the 1hz with turbo will pump out 135kw.

going by these figures, no matter what the difference, i would have thought mine should still go better.... P.S. just to confirm, the relos one is a 12valve not the later 24valve.

FollowupID: 367343

Reply By: Paul from Denco Diesel and Turbo - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 16:03

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 16:03

Dear Ando80,

To answer your questions,

Do these figure sound right? They sound low but the increase before and after equates to 35% which does sound correct. Dyno results will vary from dyno to dyno so maybe it is worth getting it rechecked on another dyno. Should expect around 110-120HP/82-90KW at rear wheels depending on vehicle.

Try to stay with AADS members (Association of Australian Diesel Specialists) maybe with a dyno, to have any repairs done. Again we suggest to get the horse power checked before any adjustments are made. This vehicle should not blow smoke under boost conditions if the fuel is set correctly. Ask the repairer to set the vehicle as per our required settings which can be obtained by calling us.

Hope this helps if you have any problems please do not hesitate to contact us.

AnswerID: 111018

Follow Up By: Ando80 - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 18:50

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 18:50

Thanks for your advice Paul, I agree that the turbo has done its job by giving the increase as stated it would, but the overall power figures are down, and by alot if they should be up to 90kw. I would have thought they would have noticed this when they had it on the dyno, as i would hope their dyno isn't that far out, and in gereral it does still feel underpowered driving it.

Where can i find out who are AADS members in Perth?

FollowupID: 367458

Reply By: colin - Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 22:36

Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 22:36

When setting a vehicle on a dyno you have to let them know what sort of driving will be involved, no point setting a vehicle to do 200ks when it will be used for towing also adj tapperts when the pump is done. Col

AnswerID: 111105

Reply By: Member - Allan - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 00:55

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 00:55

Ando80
I found the power at the lower revs is what is more important for quick take off. I had my pump tweaked and it changed the shape of my dyno curve completely. It increased the power by 15kw between 1000rpm and 2000rpm. The max kw at 3200rpm did not change at all but it certainly changed the way the vehicle performed through the gears. Your max power at 3200 rpm is a lot lower than mine but we do have different engines. I’d be happy to send you a copy of my curve if you like. I had my pump reset on dyno at United Fuel Injection on Great Eastern Highway in Redcliffe. They did not overhaul anything - just reset the injector pump (in-situ).

AnswerID: 111122

Follow Up By: Ando80 - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 08:17

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 08:17

Allan,

That is probably more what i need as it just doesn't seem to have the pulling power at low revs i expected from the diesel and if there is something else wrong i am hping they will be able to find it. They were the ones i was considering taking it to, so thanks for the advice, i will pop in and see them next time i am in Perth.

Cheers

FollowupID: 367554

Reply By: Paul from Denco Diesel and Turbo - Friday, May 13, 2005 at 10:18

Friday, May 13, 2005 at 10:18

Dear Ando80,

You could find AADS members on the internet just search Association of Australian Diesel Specialists. We hope this helps you.

Cheers

AnswerID: 111150

Reply By: Member - Karl - Saturday, May 14, 2005 at 11:36

Saturday, May 14, 2005 at 11:36

Ando,

You could try TLC. They are located on Stockdale Rd in O'Connor (off of Stock Rd). All they do are Toyota 4WDs. Give Jason and the boys a call on 9314 3714. They do all the work on my 80 Series and I haven't had a problem with them.

Karl

AnswerID: 111263