Child seat anchor points for three

Submitted: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 13:36
ThreadID: 23452 Views:6922 Replies:4 FollowUps:10
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All three of our cars currently have only two anchor points for children's seats and we were wondering if this was normal? Surely there are many families out there who have three children under five. How does one go about adding a third anchor point in the centre of the rear seat? Is it possible to run a bridle from either side to attach a third seat in the centre, as in this illustration?
!MPG:6!
Surely a set up like this would work in the back of the Triton and the 200SX? . . . or am I just dreaming?
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Reply By: Member - bushfix - Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 13:45

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 13:45
G'day,

For setups where the anchor strap meets the bench seat, it comes down to load ratings i.e. not allowed to have more than two. I am not sure of the set up for the Triton but you would probably get help by contact the Vic Roads Authority who would have a list of authourised fitters. Those fitters would be the ones in the know wrt legalities, load handling etc.
There is the possibility in some cases, of tapping into the roof for the third anchor point. Would probably need an engineer's certification for any mods.

AnswerID: 113721

Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 13:49

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 13:49
maybe here could help?
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Follow Up By: Wombat - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 11:19

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 11:19
Thanks for the information and the link Bushie. I'm tossing up whether I want to get VicRoads involved.
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Reply By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 14:20

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 14:20
Hi wombat

I went to our local testing station and asked if a piece of 40mm x 5mm flat bar mounted using the existing holes, with provision for 3 anchors would suffice... I was told that just so long as no major deviation in the direction of leverage was created, it should be OK. As a result I installed this stainless 40mm x 5mm bar, spaced away from the wall with the original spacers provided with the harnesses we bought:

!MPG:3!

A couple of weeks later when I went back to get the installation looked at, the first bloke I spoke to was away and his replacement knocked it back. I then bumped into a bloke in Darwin who had done virtually the same as me(his bar was slightly smaller) and he had a certificate of compliance(or something like that) from Tassie.

I decided to just leave mine in.

AnswerID: 113734

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 14:39

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 14:39
And good on you Blue, all this engineers crap gives me the whoopsies. I mean and half drunk dingo would be able to see that what you have done is far superier than stock...

I did a simlar thing with ours, fitted it myself to the storage box. You could get stuffed if you thought I was going to put my childs life in the hands of somone who's perogative was to fit it the cheapest way possible in the least amount of time and charge me a bomb for the privilage.

And before all you insurance, legal, mumbo jumbo poo heads start harping on, if I was in an accident SO sevre that it ripped the 4 x 10mm bolts out of the chasis rails AND my child died AND I survived, insurance would be the least of my worries, even if they locked me up it would make no difference. At least I would be able to go to sleep knowing I did everything I could.

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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 17:56

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 17:56
Hi Blue,

Not wanting to get into an engineering debate, but I can see why the installer knocked it back.

I gather from the pic that you have used the original two bolt holes and simply added the restraint anchor centrally on the SS bar, without adding a third bolt into the vehicle? The issue I see is that you have left the original anchors, plus the new anchor, so could potentially have 3 baby seats on two bolts.

This will place a greater load on the 2 original bolts, plus the leverage effect created by the central anchor (note: SS bar is more than sufficient for the task). While this is probably OK, you are relying on over-engineering of the original bolts to accomodate a third anchor point.

If you only ever attached two baby seats in any position, I see no problem at all. BUT, if you did install three baby seats, then you have only 2/3 of a bolt per seat, plus leverage effect from the middle anchor.

If you are confident enough that the original 2 bolts are over-engineered to the point they only need 2/3 of their strength, then you are fine. However, this is why the installer would not certify compliance, he did not want to make that call.

Jeff - your situation is different, you have additional bolts directly into the chassis, you will find this is significantly stronger than OME bolts and can certainly rest easy knowing your installation should be fine.

Cheers

Captain

PS. Yes, I am a bl00dy engineer!!!
Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 20:13

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 20:13
Hi Captain,

I replaced the original bolts with grade 8 high tensile jobs. After seeing that a fella from Tassie had an all but identicle setup in a similar dual cab ute, with a certificate, I now rest pretty easy. Also, I feel confident that the first bloke I saw(who had seen a drawing of my intentions) thought it was a reasonable proposition and would probably have certified me had I seen him the next time.

You have got me thinking though, I may just do the rounds and see how varied the opinions of these "experts" really is... I have four reasonably local restraint checking stations nearby.

Blue
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Follow Up By: Wombat - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 11:25

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 11:25
Exactly what I had planned. Like you I refuse to pay additional for bureaucratic bullsheet and would prefer to go for the option which is not so dear, Blue. Once again thank you for the piccy and the other information you supplied on MM. Let us know how you go with the various "expert" engineers.
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Reply By: Des Lexic - Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 16:46

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 16:46
G'day Wombat.
Are you announcing in a roundabout way the one anchor point is no longer enough.
If I am making the correct assumption, congratulations to Helen and yourself.
Alpaca
AnswerID: 113757

Follow Up By: Wombat - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 15:55

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 15:55
I never touched the girl!

Don't you have to have sex for that sort of thing to happen?
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Reply By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 23:03

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 at 23:03
Wombat, I have in my MU (as part of compliancing) two anchor points fitted into the rear of the vehicle for kiddy seat restraints. They were installed by simply drilling the hole in the floor of the cargo area and then rivetting a metal (very thin very flimsy) plate underneath the floor with a captive nut insert.

This is all that the engineers required for the two mounting points for seat harness restraints, so in your case it might be a simple case for your installation. ie drill the third hole in between the two existing and install the approved plate behind the wall and rivet it in.

I would talk to an approved installer and get it permanently installed and I doubt there is even a mod plate or anything if they do it correctly.

Just a though, since you will always get the questions about two bolts securing three seats and the leverage effect while you have your current setup (despite it most likely being adequate!!!)

Goodluck with it anyway!

Matt.

AnswerID: 113837

Follow Up By: Wombat - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 11:37

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 11:37
Thank you for the reply Matt. What you suggest could be an alternative if I decide not to go with a setup similar to Blue's. I imagine it the entire tub and canopy would have to come off the ute to fix the fixing plate, though?
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FollowupID: 369933

Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 16:37

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 16:37
Hi Wombat,

You can install a backing plate from the "front", the same way its done for cargo barrier installations. A ~22mm hole is drilled to allow a 20mm length of flat bar to be inserted behind the wall (thru the hole). Its then fixed into place by two screws either side of the 22mm hole, into the flatbar. If you look at the instructions for a cargo barrier installation you will be able to see what I am describing, my description is not that good, sorry. But the point is you don't have to remove the tub and canopy.

Cheers

Captain
Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 18:03

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005 at 18:03
Nah mate...as Captain said there are heaps of ways to get them down the back where you want it. They certainly didnt remove my fuel tank etc to put my restaints in. Most likely drilled the hole fed them under and then srewed the retaining bolt in to hold in place and then drilled the two little pop rivet holes that keep the plate in place when the bolt is removed.

Very easy and very neat too, no big holes or large dissaembly!

Goodluck!

Matt.
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