Black smoke

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:08
ThreadID: 23732 Views:2123 Replies:13 FollowUps:6
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Hi everyone,
I am at my wits end here, to cut a long story short got injectors done approx 40,000 kms ago, 5000kms ago got advised to mod injector pump hoping this would stop people coming passed me without waving their hands. All of this costing me close enough to $4,000 and NO improvement

Vehicle is 91 turbo 80 series

Anybody out there got any ideas on what could be the problem

Injectors done at Rocklea Injection service and the pump done at Diesel Australia at Springwood
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:30

Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:30
Black smoke...unburnt fuel....youve done the most probable things, not its theoretical time...the smoke is possibly from late injection timing.....do u run a std filter or something better??? These motors are so touchy with filters, a better filter will starve the pump and allow it to inject late!
Some people have put electric fuel pumps on them to supply fuel to the pump, and rave at the difference in power...the pumps used are Walbros...and are put infront of the solenoid...so either tank can be used....check out www.lcool.org
Andrew

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AnswerID: 115140

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:57

Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:57
G'day Andrew,
If you are right about the fuel delivery (& I'm not saying you're not, by any means), then you may have found the cause of my over heating problem. I have installed a Morrisons DeBug unit in my fuel line. I mounted the unit on the chassis rail under the driver's foot well. Instead of cutting into the fuel lines where they passed right by the DeBug, I simply ran a rubber hose from where the solid pipe finished up near the filter, back to the DeBug, then from the DeBug back up to the filter. This added about 5 feet of extra fuel line to the equation plus the added work of pulling the fuel through the DeBug unit in the first place.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

I'm gunna disconnect the DeBug unit and see if things improve at all. If they do, I'll re-fit it and see if I can add one of these pumps you speak about.

Thanks mate
Roachie
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FollowupID: 370896

Reply By: MAVERICK(WA) - Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:31

Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:31
does it have black smoke all the time or just ubder acceleration or heavy throttle use? generally black smoke = unburnt fuel. unburnt fuel is usually a by product of insufficient air. sorry if this sounds simplistic but that's all it is. now for the difficult bit - as long as the injectors are still ok and you may need to have them pulled again to check the seals as 40,000kms could see them needing replacement. did they get 'pop' tested? should have a spray pattern that is even with no dripping. 5,000km should be ok for the pump - make sure it was set to the correct tolerances and that it had correct pressure and flow set. now start looking at the more simple things - remove the air cleaner/filter and see if the smoke is as bad. just make sure nothing enters the turbo inlet. when was the turbo last pulled down? this may also be requiring a rebuild. even a collapsed air pipe when under pressure will cause lack of air and black smoke. there is also a throttle sensor which monitors airflow - have this checked or better still fit a new one. hiope this helps a bit. rgds

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AnswerID: 115141

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 00:06

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 00:06
methinks check the filters BEFORE testing the injectors!! and if they are knackered after 40000k's go back and see the bloke who did them!!
But after the filters Id just make sure the turbo is boosting-check the easy/simple/cheap first!!
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FollowupID: 370912

Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:17

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 12:17
alot of injector places will just clean and relap the nozzles and this only gives a 'like new' performance for a very much reduced period...not new at all. Find out if the injector had nozzles replaced or just cleaned and lapped. But as said...black smoke is more fuel than the available air and time available to burn...so look into the suggesations above, air cleaner, timing, restrictions, anneriods etc!
Goodluck with it, very annoying I bet!

Matt.
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FollowupID: 370953

Reply By: Member - Jerry C (WA) - Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:43

Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 22:43
Hi Steve,
A couple of questions, what is the total Kms? Has it been on a dyno in the last 40,000 km? What did the dyno results say?

Jerry.C(WA)
AnswerID: 115142

Reply By: Simon C - Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 23:01

Thursday, Jun 09, 2005 at 23:01
Have you spoken to Ted at Diesel Australia ???? I have worked with him for years, and he has never let me down with back up.

Either it is over fueling, or not getting enough Air. Also have the return fuel line banjo fitting checked. This has a valve in it and maintains a set psi of "back pressure" as such in the fuel pump. When you use the hand prime pump, you should here it "pop off" with each stroke of the hand pump.

Simon

AnswerID: 115147

Reply By: Member - RockyOne - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 09:54

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 09:54
First step (inexpensive.no downside) is try a diesel additive like BiTron or FlashLube www.flashlube.com.au..I use both in my two diesels..You don't have to be a genius to tell when I forgot to add it as you can hear the difference at idle no trouble..More power on demand..No doubt,you guys have read where the lubrication qualities of diesel are dropping off re the carbon removal.These products lube the hard working injectors that we all tend to forget about and help to lube the top end..Sure,there are those out there who would regard these proven products as "Snake Oil" yet,pehaps these very same folks take all their vitamin supplements as soon as flu season approaches..( I use one egg cup of additive per 50 litre fill..Cost next door to nothing)..Have fun!..RockyOne
AnswerID: 115189

Reply By: Member - RockyOne - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 10:03

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 10:03
Live in mountain country..Make sure injectors are adjusted for the average altitude you drive..Ea 1000m variation from datum will have an adverse effect..We followed my son's HJ-45 back from Emu Creek Offroad Competition one year.As we crossed over the mountains we saw clouds of black smoke from his rigs exhaust on higher altitudes,yet back home in the Central Highlands,Qlkd,it hardly smokes at all...My understanding,from my sky-diving days (we have altimeters) is sea level is 14.7psi :-) Rgs RockyOne
AnswerID: 115195

Reply By: floyd - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 10:24

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 10:24
Try 100% Acetone. It can burn unburnt fuel and stop it going out as smoke in the exhaust.

Do a search here or on google. There are heaps of sites around the world where people have researched this topic. Lots of ongoing tests about it too.
AnswerID: 115207

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Jun 11, 2005 at 01:04

Saturday, Jun 11, 2005 at 01:04
are you serious?? Ive heard of putting a couple of hundred mils in your tank but 100% ??
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FollowupID: 371044

Follow Up By: toadskin - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 21:12

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 21:12
Try about 140cc of 100% acetone per 100ltrs of diesel. That will stop the smoke and smooth the idle but there is obviously another problem here.
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FollowupID: 371375

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 11:33

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 11:33
Just do what I do and flip the little thingy up on the rear view mirror so you can't see it! LMAO!

Mine smokes pretty bad when I lift my foot off the accelerator suddenly after heavy acceleration, I only assume that it's the older type electronic fuel pump/ECU being a little slow in reacting. Never thought much of it myself...

Does your's smoke all the time or only in certain confitions?

Is it an Auto or a Manual. I figure a manual wouldn't do what mine does as when you lift your foot off the accelerator it still maintains revs, being an auto if I'm not in torque lock and I lift it the rev's drop back to idle and all that fuel the ECU was pooring into the motor has to go somewhere, so it goes out the pipe!
AnswerID: 115223

Reply By: Kiwi Ray - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 15:47

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 15:47
A check list for you
Air intake system, free flowing
Exhaust, not restricted
Cam belt worn, late timing
Tappet clearance
Pump timing
Pump internal pressure, ccheck
Pump auto advance, check
Pump timing
Turbo boost, ceck
Waste gate, check
Is this engine a factory turbo model, if so these injectors do not service well they are better replaced with new.
Is this truck a Used Jap import iif so they had rather small exhausts, change to 2 1/2 - 3 ins they also tend to block the mufflers due to the slow cold running in Japan.
Make certain there are no air leaks between turbo and manifold
Some of these motors had aneroid unit check that it is working and the hoses are connected
Ray
AnswerID: 115263

Reply By: lindsay - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 21:51

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 21:51
If you have a snorkel fitted check the inside as some of them had a section of foam in the snorkel tube to reduce noise. This can get blocked with bugs ect and restrict the amount of air. Mate of mine had the same problem several years ago, spent heaps on other causes and was only this bit of faom and when cleaned was ok.
AnswerID: 115303

Reply By: Big Woody - Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 23:07

Friday, Jun 10, 2005 at 23:07
Hi Steve,

I had this exact problem on my turbo diesel 75 series. After doing the injectors and the pump it turned out to be a faulty boost compensator on my injector pump.
This boost compensator is fitted to supply more diesel down low in the revs to compensate for lack of turbo boost at those revs. As the revs increase then the boost compensator progressively backs off as the turbo takes over. Basically it eliminates some of the turbo lag.

Anyway that is what mine turned out to be and I have virtually no black smoke at all now. It was very embarrassing before as no matter how gently I took off, those behind were covered in black smoke. I had to find the problem before the cops put me off the road.

I hope this helps mate.

Cheers,
Brett
AnswerID: 115313

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 22:50

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 22:50
actually it works in the opposite way, less fuel when there is no boost, more boost allows more fuel to be burnt without black smoke (unburnt fuel)
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FollowupID: 371387

Reply By: angler - Saturday, Jun 11, 2005 at 20:03

Saturday, Jun 11, 2005 at 20:03
One of my mates had a discovery turbo and it suffered from severe lack of power and black smoke when you floored it and made it work a bit. Turned out to be the intake tube from the air cleaner to the turbo collapsing under severe suction. Local rover man, not the dealer found the problem.
All fixed with a new intake tube.
AnswerID: 115379

Reply By: SteveA - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 15:33

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 15:33
sorry for not getting back to all of you sooner but had the long weekend at inskip and decided to stay another day. Thanks for all the info and I'll be checking out the air intake tomorrow thanks for all the replies
AnswerID: 115723

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