Results: GdYr MTR's on Sand and Wet Roads

Submitted: Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 20:58
ThreadID: 23811 Views:3017 Replies:5 FollowUps:17
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Ok well last weekend we took the Surf up to the playground near the Alkimos wreck just north of Perth. We were out there pretty much all day tackling dunes, rocky tracks etc. The stauns let them down to the usual 16psi all round and I'v got to say they were very good. I didn't have very high expectations for the Muddies in sand but they felt strong and I got up most things I attempted first go, even when I though it would be hard yakka.
The only down side is that apparantly they were throwing sand all over the place, not that we really noticed inside the car it didn't feel as though the wheels were spinning, but the guys following us had stuff comming back and them all over the place! ;-)

Now the reason for writing this post: WET ROADS.
I just had the oppertunity to be driving on some back streets by myself on wet roads. I thought seeings as we've had the tyres on now for about 4000kms we I should check to see what the braking in the wet is like, so I got up to 60k's and hit the anchors!
To my TOTAL suprise the rig made the most impressive HOWEL that send shivers up my spine and stopped without locking up the wheels! Now admitilly these were brand new roads in a new residential area so they were flat and smoth etc but WOW, I reckon it pulled up quicker than the Toyota Echo I drive for work!
But I had to do it one more time after that, cos I just had to hear that noise again, wowie, that's one hell of an off putting noise!
But I can live with noise as long as we stop in time!
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Reply By: Patrolman Pat - Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 21:09

Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 21:09
We had rain last week Jeff for the first time since i put my MT/Rs on so I did exactly what you did to test them out. I got the rears to lock up once but I had to try hard to do so, couldn't get them to lose traction on acceleration or cornering although i probably didn't try too hard tbh.
AnswerID: 115481

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 22:53

Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 22:53
Yeah the surf''s only got drums in the back, so that would explain that one. I was suprised, I mean it actually pushed you into the seatbelt something cruel.
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Reply By: Joe - Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 21:49

Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 21:49
Hi Guy's,
I have had mine on for 10,000km and agree they are the sand with the pressure down they seem to work like paddles, good in the mud and quiet on the tar, especially compared to the coper stt i had previously.overall a great tyre.
AnswerID: 115490

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 22:33

Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 22:33
Looking forward to getting my new MT/Rs fitted this coming wednesday. I've got odd tyres on at present....1 worn BFG A/T on rear right, 3 BFG muddies; 2 of which are badly worn and one with about 1/3 tread left.....these are the 4 tyres I'm getting rid of for the MT/Rs......I changed them over about a week ago and the truck is all over the place like a mad womans breakfast. (I wanted to take off the 2/3's worn Cooper S/Ts in readiness for the new MT/Rs; hence the odd assortment of worn rubber at present!!!).


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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 22:44

Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 at 22:44
I hope you love the MTRs like I do, I've just been so impressed with them!

Regarding your post on Air Manifolds too, I was thinking how awsome that site was and was considering re doing the air system on the surf.

I went to fit an Air Pressure guage in the cab on Saturday and connect up the other set of air horns (oh boy I'm just being silly now) and went into super creapy to see if they had anything that I needed, turns out they had a "2 port" ally manifold just like the ones on that website for $11. Spunky metalic blue colour and all. The block has 5 threads in it, one in, one out, two on one side and one on the other.
Worked out great with the compressor going in one end, then the guage comming out the other, the ARB pressure switch on the single side and the horns and tank comming out the main side. So much neater than all my "t"s I had before!

So thanks for bringing that up because I would have never thought of using one of those before! ;-)

PS Never buy air fittings from super cheap, they are WAY to expensive, I went to Hosecoe and got 5 fittings for the price of one at Super Cheap! But in their deffence, Hoseco had no manifold at all so Supercheaps was a good buy. It was a Champion brand too.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 09:09

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 09:09
Glad to hear it's all worked out ok for you Jeff...
Did you say you've put the gauge in a visible spot in the cab (on dash etc)?
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 09:09

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 09:09
Stupid me..............just re-read your post and you DID say your gauge is in the cab......
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:57

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:57
LOL, yeah it's down near the ashtray next to where my knee goes, it was hard to find a place where you run a whopping thick bit of high pressure fuel line hose to! ;-)

Not exactly like running a bit of coax for the UHF eh?
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 19:20

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 19:20
Thanks Jeff for the good oil on air manifolds at Supercheap. I normally refrain from buying their cheap rubbish but it fits perfectly on the new compressor with outlets for both lockers, cut off switch & air hose. Might have to take a better look at what other treasures they have hidden there ;-)
Cheers Craig..........
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 19:23

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 19:23
No worries Crackles, glad someone's got some use outta my ramblings! LOL

The're a neat little thing, I'm the same some of the stuff at Super Crap are eaither more expensive that your local guy or just plain crap, but here are the occasional bargins!
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Reply By: Utemad - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:10

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:10
Mine get their first sand trip Friday/Saturday to Inskip Point.

I have locked mine up once or twice in the last 10000kms and they certainly do howl. Must scare the crappers out of the people around you. Although I reckon they handle better on road than my BFG KO although they were 225/75 16 and these are 31x10.5.

I actually just had one of mine replaced. It never balanced up properly and was put on the back to see if it would 'wear in'. It didn't so I contacted Goodyear and they replaced it no probs.
AnswerID: 115524

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:59

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:59
Yeah I've got the 31's as well, good to hear they are standing by their product!
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Follow Up By: Joe - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 14:23

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 14:23
Hi Utemad,
I had to get mine rebalanced after the first week, have been fine since.

It's seems that's the cosequencenature of this tyres robust design .... hard to keep in balance as pressure changes...overall worth the trouble though.
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Reply By: The Blackman - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:11

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 10:11
Gday Jeff

Good to hear that the muddies are stopping well. I have 33" Copper STT's on my 75 series trayback and wasnt expecting to stop in too much of a hurry, but was impressed with how the muddies pulled up.

I am a perth boy too and used to go up to the Alkimos as well for many years but was under the impression that we werent allowed in there anymore. How did you get in there and do you know anything further about whether those tracks are open to the public.

AnswerID: 115525

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 11:02

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 11:02
Well that's what I'd heard to for the last few years, but of late I've heard more and more reports about it being open from the norhtern wanneroo road entry, as long as you didn't enter the Marmian ave way and as long as you don't go within 50m of the beach. It was a favourite place of ours back in the day, so we thought we'd give it a bash and sure enough the boulders were not blocking the track and there were plenty of people in there. Of course there were the morons on the beech obviously TRYING to get the area closed, but you always get the idiots.....
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 15:15

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 15:15
Hi Jeff,

Are you sure of your facts about the Alkimos access? I was under the impression that its always been legal to drive ON the beach, but driving on the dunes was the issue.

My understanding ( and will stand corrected if wrong) was that the City of Joondalup blocked access to the beach by stopping access to the dunes (those boulders at the end of Pippidinny Rd). As you have to drive across the dunes to get to the beach, you can no longer legally drive on the beach as there is no way of reaching it. There is an easement held by the Water Corporation that goes to the beach and there have been campaigns to have this opened to 4WDers to allow access to the beach, but so far unsuccessful as far as I am aware.

The rest of the land is private property, approx 200m from high tide mark eastwards on both sides of Pippidinny rd. The high tide to private property area, ie the dunes, is CoJ land as I understand it. These land owners got sick of 4X4ers driving on their land and complained on evironmental grounds so the CoJ closed their access to stop the private property trespass.

As can be seen by the amount of development from the North end of Marmion ave, how much enviromental damage does a 4X4 do compared to front end loaders and housing developments - but thats another issue.

Basically, if you can get to the beach legally, the CoJ cannot stop you driving there, so by blocking dune access you effectively ban the beach. As for you driving legally in the dunes, I still think this is not allowed, but its been 5 years since I was involved in this so my memory and recollection of all this is a bit hazy. Hopefully someone else may be able to confirm or refute the above.


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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 15:26

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 15:26
Captain I think you have it ass about mate. In the City of Wanneroo/Joondalup it is Illegal to drive on ANY beach. It was closed because of the developments and the tresspassers on their property plus the continual breaking of the by laws by people driving on the beach. As far as I am aware they have re-opned it from Pipdinny road, so long as you don't enter the development's land and you dron't drive on the beach. The boulders have been moved off the track, you don't need to go around them. But if what you say is right about it ALL being private land owned by the japanese developers then they can go and get stuffed, IMHO no business man sitting in another country is going to tell me where I can take my family in my own fing country!

I was very impressed with the amount of cars in there vs the little amount of damage. It's obviously very popular but it appears for the most part that people have been staying on the tracks, it was nice in there.

Now if they are just going to bloody well tear it all up and build houses on it than they can get stuffed, I'll enjoy it while I can. I don't drive on the beach in these shires because that's their rules and fair enough, I go further north if I want to go on the beach.
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 22:40

Monday, Jun 13, 2005 at 22:40
Hi Jeff

First of all, sorry for hijacking this thread, but I have got in touch with some of the guys who were active in trying to keep the Alkimos area open.

Basically the Shire of Waneroo has juristriction of a small corridor of land at the end of Pippidiny Rd (for future road extension to the beach). The current track to the beach criss-crosses over DOLA land, with DOLA owning most of the land north and south of Pippidiny.

At the Bowl (near the Alkimos wreck ~5km south of Pippidiny), the Water Corporation own a large trianglar shape lot of land, earmarked for a future water treatment plant. Further South of the Bowl, its privately owned land by a bunch of eastern states (NOT Jap) investors.

Now the Shire of Wanneroo (SoW) rangers only have juristriction over their small easement to the beach near Pippidiny Rd. Where the track encroaches onto DOLA land, its up to CALM rangers to police. But there was talk of DOLA giving SoW rangers juristriction to control access to their land, whether this has happened is unknown. But as you have to cross SoW land to get onto DOLA land, it really doesn't matter what position DOLA take.

The Water Authority do not seem to be restriciting (or granting) access to the bowl, but that is immaterial as you have to drive on private land from the south or SoW/DOLA land from the north.

Driving on the beach IS legal below the high tide mark (basically all the beach area) BUT there is no legal access to it.

Approaches were made several years ago by 4WD clubs to the private landowners (who basically don't care either way about the land, just waiting for the right time to develop) but the land owners in turn approached the SoW to find out why sudden the request for access. The SoW scared the landowners into denying access to 4WDers by quoting legal liability for any accidents on their private land.

Now apparently the SoW have a blitz on the area a few times a year. They simply wait at Marmion ave end and Pippidiny end, as you have to illegal drive thru here to access the beach (or the dunes).

So in a nutshell, its illegal to drive on the dune area, as you enter via private property from the South or SoW land from the North. But if you own a Chinook and were dropped on the beach, then you can drive legally below the hight tide mark (note that the legal high tide mark for land ownership is significanlty higher than what we normally observe as the high tide mark, basically anything below the dunes is OK).

Hopefully I have transcribed this correctly as relayed to myself. Not good news as it means any driving in the area is illegal and you could be fined by a ranger if caught.


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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 13:46

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 13:46
Captain, I am not doubting you as you seem to know what your talking about, but there are a lot of threads on a lot of forums stating otherwise, including this one from Exploreoz dated: March 21, 2005: Thread 21398.
Is it just that the rangers don't care? What would the fine be? Maybe it's just worth defying them on this one...

"and start the long walk back to Wanneroo RD. After an hour of walking in the heat and humidity, a Wanneroo shire ranger happened to come along in my direction. We discussed the situation and with the use of two snatch straps I was back on the tar in no time at all. He every kindly towed me to the first CAltex garage on the left hand side of the road heading into Perth. After having a cuppa with him I sat down and asked where we were allowed to drive on the beaches and dunes etc. I was flabberagsted to read the legislation that stated that you were not allowed to drive within 200metres of the beach.or on the beach. Where I was parked was about 900 metres from the beach and judging by the sand dunes there was no way I was going to risk driving down those steep dunes with no way out. There was supposed to be a demaraction sign - which had conveniently gone missing. I was assured that driving over the dunes did not present an infrigement so long as I was not closer than 200 meters !!!!!!. "

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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 14:21

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 14:21
Hi Jeff,

The guys I talked to were very active ~4 years ago, attending council meetings, holding a public rally etc... so I have confidence in what has been told to me.

But there certainly is a huge amount of confusion over what you can and cannot do. Try ringing the Shire of Waneroo on different days and see how many different answers you get depending on who you talk to. Throw in some facts like who owns what land and their answers change as you talk to them. And they will not respond in writing (or at least back then they didn't).

So, where does that leave those who go to Pipidiny Rd/Alkimos for a 4WD, basically its the luck of the draw unfortunately.


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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 22:18

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 at 22:18
I had a formal on-site meeting at the end of Pipidinny Rd with no less than 6 SoW staff in late November 2004 to discuss access to the land on the southern side of the road. This had nothing to do with recreational 4x4 access, it was a work related enquiry covering formal permissions.

We were prepared to pay a susbstantial fee for access, had $20million insurance, full legals etc and after half an hour of discussion, we came to the conclusion nobody really knew what the situation with the land was.

They (SoW) don't know for sure, I door knocked the local residents and they don't know and I still don't know. Confusion reigns.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005 at 11:09

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005 at 11:09
Ok, so the way I see it, go in there, do the "right thing" in 4wd terms. Don't tear it up, don't be a hoon, if some ranger is stupid enough to fine you, take the bastards to court and see them try and proove somthing.

That way, the WORST case scenario is that you have to pay a fine, but everyone will at least know where they stand.
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