Beware the thought Police

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 at 22:35
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There has been a recent thread which suggests you are a clown if you enjoy a nice fire and a drink.

I'm here to tell you I like both. A decent campfire and a wee tipple with the company of good friends is one of the true pleasures of life.

What can beat a freezing night in the bush, with your friends, sitting around a roaring fire, sipping on your favourite elixir.

Who the hell makes the rules?

Who thinks they can judge someone else?

I'm happy to put my chainsaw through DEAD wood and burn it. There is so much of the stuff everywhere I go. The little bit I use pales into insignificance compared with the metropolitan usage to keep houses warm. Not to mention the way in which electricity is generated.

The selfrighteous attitude of some is nonsensical. Imagine driving an internal combustion engined vehicle and then pontificating about burning a bit of wood.

Oh for the joys of being a moral adjudicator.

Jim.
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Reply By: brett - Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 at 22:48

Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 at 22:48
I enjoy both of those too and have no problem with it UNLESS it impacts on me or others. No problems with someone drinking themselves silly but I don't want to be woken at 3am cause some idiot cant handle his drink without turning into a #@$#.

Now the firewood, Also like chopping up DEAD wood for a good fire but I'm hearing what they're saying. Takes a while for all that wood to fall down and die and if we all chopped it up and burnt it where are the furry little critters going to live.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:49

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:49
Basically agree with your comments but where is all the wood coming from that gets burned is in household fire places for heating - try driving around any country town at night - try be out at night in Canberra - cough, cough.

The amount of wood being burned by campers pails in to insignificance.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 17:57

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 17:57
think it was the buffhead police he was after
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Reply By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 at 23:01

Thursday, Jun 23, 2005 at 23:01
Yes I read that post as well but didn't give a hoot. People still have the right to express their opinion about some things just as I have the right to ignore it.
I'll be in the bush this Sunday night with a roaring fire to keep me warm, warmth, shelter and food are basic necessities and anyone who tells me otherwise will be ignored.
AnswerID: 117155

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 02:34

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 02:34
sorry youl have to speak up - cant hear you over the roar of the fire!!! plus Im to drunk for you too make any sense anyway!!!
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Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 06:53

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 06:53
lets see who is going to go camping in the middle of winter and sit around the little fan heater running of the inverter.....definitely not me
AnswerID: 117183

Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:31

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:31
Well............... Each to their own isn't it?? I read the previous post, and I read this one (errr.... obviously!) and basically both writers are entitled to their opinion. But you'll notice that I am contributing to THIS post... :-))

That's because I have been known to "have-a-tipple" around a blazing fire before!

In my situation, we go with clubs etc, and it's a social thing. Some people spend Saturday night at the pub/club/restaurant/concert/opera whatever... not us.... give me a camp fire, camp oven roast and a few coldies anytime!

AnswerID: 117189

Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:35

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:35
But Brian,

There is a difference between having an opinion and insulting people.

Enjoy your fire, as will I.

Cheers,

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:45

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:45
Jim

Agreed!
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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:34

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:34
Give me beer,red wine,white wine,bundy rum........oh who cares just give be alcohol....and a big mother of a fire. I'm in heaven. And i may even do a damper or have toasted sangas.
AnswerID: 117190

Reply By: Nudenut - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:40

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:40
the bigger the fire the toastier one gets...as for the alcohol i dont drink
AnswerID: 117192

Reply By: Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 08:14

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 08:14
I'm not sure I should contribute to this, in fear I may incriminate myself...hahhaah.. ;)

Lyn

AnswerID: 117196

Follow Up By: Member - Crazie (VIC) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 08:35

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 08:35
She says with her own fire pit in the back yard and an alcohol trolley hahahaha
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Follow Up By: Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 12:06

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 12:06
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 15:04

Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 15:04
trolley?????
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Reply By: Robert - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 08:32

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 08:32
There's a big difference between having a fire for warmth as compared to having an over the top bonfire!

As you guys are well aware, signman was not against sensible use of a fire nor alcohol, he was condemning the yobo's.

Which leaves me (and no doubt others) wondering why have you guys have got so defensive and upset!
AnswerID: 117198

Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 08:45

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 08:45
G'day Jimbo,

Now I'm not a real drinker still don't mind the odd wine or 2 BUT I also like my fires and think this is a major ingredient to having a fabulous camp. So I'm with you on that one and the overall sentiment of your message.

For various reasons I also like to run my genie (its a Honda and not too loud) and would normally turn it off at some reasonable hour. I've not had any problems with fellow campers on this issue but there have been a lot of people on this forum equally offended by the use of genies. IMO it is impossible to for anyone to have a blanket view on say fires or genies when clearly at times these things may be innapropriate and we can all agree that, for example, when there is a fire ban we wouldn't light a fire etc.

I am also tired of people telling me what is right and wrong, I like to think that I can differentiate much like you guys and don't need the assistance of the thought police. However, it is good to read what some people are thinking so as to help me become a better camper.

Great post and maybe one day we can sit around the camp fire and have a wine or 2.

Kind regards
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Reply By: signman - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:11

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:11
Good Morning Jim
Obviously you may not have taken the time to read my previous post as is was meant. I have no objection to camp fires- and I definately will have camp fires when I'm on the Ann Beadell & Connie Sue Roads next month, (and having a cleansing ale also). I am offended at your suggestion as to me trying to change peoples rights and preferences- however if you wish to take the time to read the post, the comment was that in this instance the fire (read inferno) was a bit over the top. You are fortunate that the places you venture has adequate firewood available, but that is not the case in a lot of areas.
I am very surprised at the number of 'views' my previous post had, and more surprised at the number of people like yourself who took exception to it, and I can only assume either a) they did not read the context or b) they are boofheads- with no predjudice to you.
Have a great day
Signman
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 19:18

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 19:18
Mate,

Read my post carefully, it didn't attack you personally or name you. I didn't suggest you were trying to change people's rights.

Your thread generated some responses that were very judgemental. This was the basis of my post. I have a problem with people who are judgemental. eg people being cast as the devil for having a drink, or owning a generator, or letting kids ride mini bikes, or taking a dog, or playing a bit of music etc etc etc.

Me, I'm pretty tolerant in the bush. I don't own it or have the right to tell others how to use it. There are no rules as to what is right in the bush. Of course other than leave no rubbish, don't cut down live trees, don't bog in a river etc.

And really, if a group want to have a bonfire now and then, who am I to tell them it is wrong. If that gives them pleasure, then that is their right. Whether I think they burn too much wood or not is not for me to burden them with. There are far greater crimes against the environment than burning a few fallen trees IMO.

Perhaps your term "boofhead" hit a few nerves. Anyway, you have a right to voice an opinion. I'll never dispute that.

And thanks for your response, it was put in a non agressive way without personal insult. For that I respect you.

Cheers,

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Monday, Jun 27, 2005 at 00:58

Monday, Jun 27, 2005 at 00:58
I really like solitute in the bush, I usually travel by my self and love a beer or 3, campfire size depends on my mood BUT I accept the fact that if i choose a public campsite I probably wont get much wood and will have too deal with allcomers. Most of my camping is done In the goldfields where many ks seperate you from others and firewood doesnt have to be collected as it is fair dinkum everywhere. I guessw I am saying if you dont like yobbos camp away from them (yea yea I know not possible at alot of popular destinations)
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Reply By: Willem - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:45

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:45
As per usual Jimbo you got the wrong end of the stick
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 18:45

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 18:45
Willem,

That is a slanderous insult.

Because you disagree with my point of view makes neither of us right nor wrong.

The statement "as per usual" is very offensive and requires some justification or retraction.

I'll not trade insults with you.

You may need to heed your own advice to iMusty "think before you write".

Oh, and by the the other responses on this thread, I'm not sure I got it too wrong.

Cheers,

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:27

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:27
Oh Jimbo, you are so precious!

Slanderous insult.....BAH!!!

The fella was just voicing an opinion..that that was the way he felt about things. But Nooooo....you have to make an issue out of it.

Hence my comment that you have missed the point.

Hey...Go out there, light your big fires, drink what you have to and smoke what you have to.....Who cares about what YOU do out there in the bush by yourself or with your friends.

If I have offended you then so be it. It was not intentional. Just a comment.

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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:30

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:30
On econd thoughts I will withdraw the words ' per usual'

Happy?
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 23:45

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 23:45
Nah!!! Willem you got it right the first time.
"Precious" it is.
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Follow Up By: rig pig - Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 03:38

Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 03:38
Nah!!! Willem you got it right the first time.
"Precious" it is.

God, pull your tongue out of his a#se
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 09:17

Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 09:17
Willem,

Not sure why you've got me in the gun, only you know that.

However, your comments are your's to make. They actually say a lot more about you than they do me.

Cheer up old chap.

Jim.
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Reply By: Jodi - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 10:01

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 10:01
Hi Jimbo,

I believe the post you are referring too is probably one I have started or been involved in. Like you, I thoroughly enjoy a fire and drink(s) - particurlarly with good friends. They seem to go hand in hand. My complaint is mainly about other campers we have come accross who don't seem to show consideration for the fact there are other campers near by - I also know that campers that wreak havock on a site (and thus the experiences of other campers) are few and far between in the big scheme of things.

So like you, I will be enjoying a fire and drinks on our next trip, however as per usual I will feel wary about other campers arriving and can really only relax after I know that they're not about to tear the bush down and keep us awake until all hours with car stereo blaring (they may as well have stayed home and annoyed their neighbours).

I was not trying to make any rules, simply express my opinion and frustration.
AnswerID: 117216

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 13:54

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 13:54
Yeah nothing like rocking up to a ripper of a camp site with your small children and good friends to find brocken glass and used condoms all over the ground around the trashed fireplace.

As I stated in the previous post. Fire size should be directly related to bums sitting around it. If you have 10 people, have big fire, if there's two poeple have a moderate fire. As far as camping and drinking goes, I like drinking, therefore I camp away from anyone else so that nobody get'sbleepoff. If I'm with a group (a club or such) then we generally keep it under control so that nobody get's offended.

Guys I think the issue is common sense, not judging anyone. We have enough rules, regulations and social no no's to worry about in life, camping is where I get to throw most of those out the window, there's no way I'll let people judge me for having a good time, and for the most part doing the right thing by the environment and other people.

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Follow Up By: Jodi - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 14:22

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 14:22
Agreed Jeff.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 17:47

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 17:47
agreed Jeff. Most of us like a fire and a drink or.....well, several. A little consideration for others was the point of the original post. All the guy was asking for as a little consideration and common sense. Some people only see it as a black and white issue.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 20:34

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 20:34
Hit the nail on the head about commonsense, Jeff. Not everyones got it, or are likely to get it. And people's interpetation of "big", "moderate" or "small", are all going to be different.

Don't know why people arc-up, about others telling them what to do, or not do, on the forum. There's people everywhere that are"telling" us what to do. TV ads, pollies, police, bosses ....... ad nauseam.

Hooroo...
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 17:18

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 17:18
To be fair; the originator of the other thread mentioned a fire you couldn't get "within 30 feet of" which does seem ridiculously large to me.

I considered this fire thing a while ago and wondered if I was damaging the bush so I did some (very) rough calculations and reckon that the sum total of the wood I will burn on camp fires, throughout my lifetime, is around 4 or 5 average size gum trees. I did this calculation when I was camping in the High Country and then I looked at the number of trees around me and decided the bush would barely notice my passing. However, for me, a large fire would be about 1m diameter but I usually keep them burning (more ticking over really) for much of the day for hot water.

As for booze: I drink more than is good for me but (almost) never get drunk (last New Year's Eve being a notable exception :( but as I would never dream of camping near anyone else it's not an issue. I fail to understand why people go bush and then use camp sites near others!? I go bush to _get away_ from others.

Live and let live, I reckon - you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.

Mike Harding
AnswerID: 117282

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 17:45

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 17:45
"Live and let live, I reckon - you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone."

I think that makes it twice I have agreed with you now.
Hmmm a bit of a worry.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 19:38

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 19:38
>I think that makes it twice I have agreed with you now.
>Hmmm a bit of a worry.

Nah... just means you're maturing :)

Joking aside John - I noticed your picture of Jacksons Crossing which I assume you crossed? Is there a track on the western side? I spent a little time on the eastern side but didn't bother crossing over. However I couldn't see anything on the west - which made me wonder why there is a crossing there?

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Spade Newsom - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 20:52

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 20:52
Mike,

Your post caused me to LOL. Was it supposed to be funny?

spade newsom
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:10

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:10
I don't know Spade - it's no good asking me to interpret your sense of humour.

You'll have to dig a bit deeper to find the answer to that.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:34

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:34
I think I'll leave you alone then, Mike.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:39

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:39
A wise decision Willem.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:59

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:59
I meant while camping, Mike.

On the forum you are fair game if I think it necessasry to respond....hahahahaha
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 22:35

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 22:35
So did I Willem - haha

Mike Harding

PS. You from South Africa originally?
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 23:04

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 23:04
Mike you assumed correctly, No point labeling a photo "Jacksons Crossing" if it isn't the actual place.

Coming from the East "Varneys Track" if my memory serves me when you hit the river you turn left (South) and drive down the middle of the river for about 150 to 200 meters you hit a dividing island in the middle of the river, the river has a good stony bottom. The track crosses the island and continues across a smaller section of the river then south on the "Jackson Crossing Track".

I would hate to see anybody attempt a direct westerly crossing without a scuba tank.

One other point is that the Snowy is supposed to gain an increase in flows in the future, this crossing would be quite treacherous if the river was to get a few feet more depth, so just take care if you try it.

The photo is of me heading North East on Jackson Crossing Track between the Island and Varneys.

Hope this helps.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Monday, Jun 27, 2005 at 01:02

Monday, Jun 27, 2005 at 01:02
dont varios state athoritys burn forests to lower the fuel load? samwe could be achieved by sending all the yobbos out bush to clear the floor of deadwood and have a controlled bonny
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Reply By: Spade Newsom - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 20:50

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 20:50
Jimbo,

The unfortunate truth is there are plenty (usually travel in groups) that do create havock and have no regard for nearby campers. These types are generally looking for that type camping experience and probably wouldn't bother going bush if the bon-fire and inebriation were not part of it. Why not it's great fun. If you want to go ballistic by all means go for it, but not near other campers and please clean up before you go.

Where do you find somewhere that others aren't. Look hard - If I'm gunna have a wild camp I make the effort and find one, spread out and make it obvious to any one who thinks they can share my spot that they might not like the noise. If I can't find an empty site than I'm out of luck. (I'm not talking Nat Park or medium density camping grounds here by the way)

Others have said that common sense is required. Nice in theory!!!
It's also common sense not to smoke, take drugs, spend more than you can afford on pokies or to covet thy neighbours wife. Doesn't stop people doing the "wrong" thing.

Some of my thoughts on the subject.

Another thought - Recently went to the beautiful Sandon River Nth NSW. Had a look at the camp grounds and the park at Brooms Head. The patrons were crammed in like sardines. I being not from the city thought it quite odd that folks would camp like that. It was like a shanty town. My idea of camping is to go where others aren't and I can make as much noise or be as quite as I want.

spade newsom

AnswerID: 117327

Reply By: Crackles - Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:58

Friday, Jun 24, 2005 at 21:58
Unfortunately it seems too many have been enjoying a" decent fire" & in some places it's led to the banning of fires altogether. Next place undoubtably will be the Murray River where too many campers have stripped all available dead wood (fallen or standing) & are now even cutting down green trees. The up coming "River Red Gum Forrest Investigation" will no doubt have banning fires on the top of the adjenda as they already have been on the NSW side.
In the High Country (especially after the Great Alpine fire) there is an abundence of dead wood & a large camp fire on a cold night would not be out of place, but head out to the desert or down the Murray & big fire could be seen as irrisponsible.
A good example can be seen at Pedirka where campers would grab an old Gahn sleeper & a few branches for their fires at Dalhousie Springs. In 1984 you could get a sleeper at the Railway siding, now you have to drive a KM up the track & most of the the dead trees are stripped. I'm not sure of the answer Jim, do you keep letting people strip all the wood until it is all gone or should we have smaller fires or cook on gas???
Cheers Craig............
Guilty big fire builder;-)
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Reply By: peter in sa - Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 13:47

Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 13:47
Hi all. After all that i Know one thing OPINIONS VARY. me give me a nice size fire and that BEAR that hangs around camps any day cheer's GREENDOG
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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 16:04

Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 16:04
Like this Jimbo???????!MPG:8!
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Follow Up By: Steve - Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 at 09:24

Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 at 09:24
that's a small fire compared to some of the bonfires that rent-a-crowd make
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Reply By: dougie diesel - Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 17:09

Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 17:09
Bloody Hell!!!
What a strange debate. For my 2 bits worth - There is nothing worse than getting to a campsite filled with rubbish, noisy yobbos and devoid of any wood. Please everyone out there. By all means, have your fire and enjoy each others company. Just think of others to follow or are nearby.
How bloody simple is that?
Too simple for some and not simple enough for others.

I think I'll just do what I think is reasonable and hope others will do the same. I've been doing it for years now.
Dougie
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Follow Up By: Steve - Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 19:10

Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 at 19:10
Bloody hell, Doug. Can you put that in Swahili? Bit difficult for some.
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Follow Up By: dougie diesel - Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 at 08:57

Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 at 08:57
f*ck off smart a*se
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Reply By: Steve - Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 at 09:06

Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 at 09:06
Doug, I know this is getting complicated for those of limited grey matter, but if you follow the debate you'll see I was agreeing with you. Dipstick.
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