CHEATING CAR YARD UPDATE (missing log books)

Submitted: Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 17:41
ThreadID: 24561 Views:4235 Replies:18 FollowUps:38
This Thread has been Archived
Thanks to everyone that replied.

We have just been to a small claims court hearing to try and resolve who is telling the truth about the log books we had agreed on. Strangely the yard manager says its been a big misunderstanding on my behalf but blaims someone else bla- bla- bla! At the end we're taking them to court for the sum of $3000.00 for de-value of the car. He then said he would pay $500.00 for them as log books are only worth that much on a car. Does anyone realy know what % they are worth, remember this is a $40,000 car

nissans new logo - lie to a million!

we should have stuck to o wtat a feeling toyota!
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Reply By: Member Eric - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 18:05

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 18:05
Well i work a s a wholesaler and no Log book is a major issue on resale of a big ticket vehicle . What I would do , is go to a Nissan dealer and tell then you are interested in selling your car , and that it dosnt have books . Then tell them you need there purchase price in writing because you need to show your boss . He may even say to you that he dosnt want it because it dosnt have books. But say I need to sell it and i dont think he is to worried , but I need to prove that Nissan put a price on it. The used car valuer will think he has a dummy , also ask him to mention that the service books are the issue to the low valuation, tell him your boss will look at that and deside easier to sell it.

Take this to court ........ ;-)
AnswerID: 119471

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 07:47

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 07:47
I would like to dissagree with you if you were told it had log books and you didint get them thats an issue.
A mate of mine bought a 4wd from a yard similar story the books are commimg .
He was told the 4wd live in orange and he would get hold of the books from the farmer bla bla bla.
The 4wd was an ex mine 4wd from WA he found some paper behind the dash. From that he made some calls and got a full refund of the purchase price and a little extra.

So when buying a second had any type of 4wd car etc if its got filled out log books you can trace the 4wd.

I am also pretty sure the car yard puts more on the price if its got log books. They use it as a selling point dont they.

All the best
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 07:53

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 07:53
Sorry Eric , I am have read my reply 3 times and I am looking for the point you disagree with
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Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 12:20

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 12:20
and no Log book is a major issue on resale
I think the log book is a major part.

All the best
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 15:51

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 15:51
Eric , I think you need to read my post carefully , I said it WAS a issue
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Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 17:25

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 17:25
Sorry Eric it must be a Eric thing I read it as no it wasnt and issue.

All the best
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Follow Up By: rudu - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 14:12

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 14:12
1st Eric,

Thats a good idea at least ill have something in writting. Do you know if the km could have been tampered with in a gigital speedo.

Eri from cape york (gods country)

You should be out in your back yard fishing and not on your computer
the 1st and only time i made it to cape york, we got stuck in the first river crossing blew my brand new air jack up, jumpped over a large croc while chassing a pig,wheels fell of the old trailer and got stuck at port stewart by rain for 5 day THAT WAS AS FAR AS WE GOT. It was the best time ive had though. Its 13 in s.a today

thanks men!
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 15:20

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 15:20

You can get the speedo altered. The person that does it is suposed to get a stat. dec. or something to alter it and have a legit reason like replacing the speedo because it is faulty. People can also buy a second hand speedo with lower km's and put that in instead.

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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 17:23

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 17:23
Changing a Digital speedo is easier than ordering a meat pie. Takes the whole of 30 seconds . You don't even need to take the dash out .

Ok , this should help.

By law the car yard must display the previous owner on the L form, the L form is the piece of paper usually on the drivers window with the ASK price. With the name of thge previous company , call them up and get yourself some answers. If the dealer tells you that he isn't alowed to give you the previous owners name , tell him that you know that that is a crock. If you had the book , it would have told you in them , who the previous owner is .

Good luck ... if you need more help or hit a brick wall . Call me on 0418364781 and ill try track it all down for you.

I know some people who know some people . Who work in Nissan head office lol
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Follow Up By: rudu - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 15:11

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 15:11
Thats an unusual name.Thats the name of the dealerships owner.YOU MIGHT BE THE OWNER ,IT MIGHT BE YOUR SON, ITS YOU LEROY.

thanks for the bad news, And Ill see you in court.

ha ha ha
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 15:16

Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 15:16
?????? You'll never catch me...... ah hahahah.....AH HAHAHAHAHA

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Reply By: Alan S (WA) - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 18:23

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 18:23

I once asked asked a car salesman when i purchased a car what the additional trade in value would be if i maintained the books that came with the car. HIs response was that it would only increase the return to me of about $500.

This sounds consistant with your dealer.

If there is amy one in the industry here they may be able to give better information.

Hope this helps

AnswerID: 119473

Follow Up By: Nudenut - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 18:53

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 18:53
yeah the guy above you is the industry i beleive
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Follow Up By: Alan S (WA) - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 10:01

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 10:01

I dont understand your comment. Certainly Eric is in the industry and has a lot of knowledge on the subject. But the post was to everyone and not just to "those in the industry".

All i offerred was my view based on information received from another source in another context on a similar issue.

If i have misinterpret your comment i apologise.

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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 15:07

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 15:07
I thought you were asking for someone in the industry to advise if your statement was right or wrong...i was pointing out that Eric was in the automotive industry so i have been led to believe.....i also believe he is trying to tell us that log supplied with the vehicle when first sold can affect the resale price significantly if not available?

have I missed understood what you were trying to say?
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 19:05

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 19:05
Rudu, the key point remains; 'are you happy with the car?
If you are, then negotiate the best deal you can. Insist on $3,000 until he offers more and settle for, say $1,000.

If you are not happy with the car, or are genuinely concerned that it has not bee serviced correctly, you need to stick to your guns. Essentially you are saying that without log books, you would not have purchased the vehicle at any price.

As you know, the advantage of the small claims tribunal is that there are no lawyers and the outcome can not be appealed. Unless you believe you are in a real hole, you need to solve it at this level.

If you are really concerned, perhaps you need to turn the whole thing around. You want your money back and return the vehicle. And you are prepared to accept, say $500 less for it for the time you have had it. Just write it off as a bad experience and learn from it for next time. No idea where this one will go and would depend in part on the interpretation an 'ordinary person' would put on the deal you had. This one may have to go to court (with lawyers) to win (or lose).

Up to you, but essentially these are your options depending on how you feel about the vehicle.

AnswerID: 119477

Reply By: Member - iMusty (VIC) - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 19:06

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 19:06
Can't the Nissan dealer (Or even Nissan Australia) look up on there computor which dealers have serviced the car and when?

Holden can and DID for me.

They found 80,000 k's of service history for me and re-printed the books. No charge!

I know they did not lie by just 'making the history up' because the actual books turned up months later and all the dates and k's matches correctly.

$40,000 car can't be that old.

How many years are you searching for?
Have you asked Nissan Aust?
Have you told the yard manager you'd be happy with a duplicate book? BUT as long as it's stamped by each individual service centre.

I'm telling you the truth here. I have two identical sets of books for my car because Holden went way out of their way and someone drove around to each service centre the car was serviced at listed on their computers records and have them stamp their dealers stamp and enter the info on the correct page.

It can be done at Holden, why can't Nissan do it?

IMhO you need to start dealing with someone else at Nissan Australia with a bit more clout than a yard mamager.

Good luck.

BTW ... If you want justice go to a prostitute, if you want to be screwed go to court.

Very few people win in court.

Good luck.

AnswerID: 119478

Follow Up By: rudu - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 21:08

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 21:08
They can only find 1 service from nissan and the car has only done 80000km.They guaranteed in writting they had the books and we would receive them. Now they say they were lied to by someone.But the point is when we trade it in Im sure a car yard would say there worth more then $500.00 and if we said we had them and then didnt produce them they would be trying to claim as much as they could

send supernaanny to fix these lieing children up

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Follow Up By: Member - iMusty (VIC) - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 21:44

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 21:44

If you have it in writting ... then go for it.

Now 'you' have them in a tighter position because they have now said that (they) were lied to and now they can't supply the books.

You seem (I say this hesitantly) to have the upper hand.

$500 isn't much. The car yard knows you'll reject the first offer to settle. They negotiate for a living.

Have your solicitor draft an offer to settle now at $3,000. If that amount suits you. Then after the settlement do a trace through a friendly Nissan service centre. Crikey you might get the $3,000 AND the books.

You might get $1,500 AND the books. Who knows?

And above all, DON'T let all this take away from the fact that you have a new $40,000 vehicle. Enjoy it.

I say sometimes to myself when I get ripped of "Will this money REALLY make a difference on my death bed?"

I look like getting ripped off $300 from an A.T.M. withdrawl. I have not worked for 18 monthS and the cash would be handy but if I don't get it back well that's life. Heck I'll send them another $300 and it really wont make a difference in my life. Will it?

fnck em.

Enjoy your new car. Go for a drive. Take the missus out for an expensive meal. Pat the dog. Eat a whole large packet of chicken chips yourself. Go for a swim. Read a book.

But don't get caught awake after your bedtime or the SuperNammy assures me she'll come around. And believes me you really don't want that. lololol.

I DO what the SuperNanny says.

She is the boss.
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 08:27

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 08:27
iMusty has it in one!
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Reply By: angler - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 20:07

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 20:07
When I purchased my second hand 3 litre I had the service at the dealer look up the history and he found all the service history for the services they did and, as they were on time, I fairly rightly assumed most of the serviceing was probably done on time at other places by the original owner. The book was up to date but it was worth a check anyway.
AnswerID: 119485

Reply By: babs - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 20:26

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 20:26
Hey Rudu, the response from imusty was spot on, you should be able to go to Nissan and get a full service history on the vehicle, provided it was serviced with them. It should not be such a big issue on the books. I dont know the details of your purchase, and if books were promised as part of the deal, being second hand if he purchased the vehicle without books then he is not obliged to provide books with the car, so it would be a waste going to court. Having said that if he promised books and has not delivered on his promise different story, and I would hope you have that promise in writing. Probably not what you want to hear but very realistic, may save you a court cost.
I would settle for the $500 and maybee get him to run around getting the service history with replacement books. If full history cant be traced and your vehicle has reasonable klm on it, with the replacement books keep the history up yourself and it wont be an issue when it comes time to sell or trade.
Remember though with the replacement books make sure it has your vehicle particulars printed on inside page, eg. engine # chassis # issuing dealer.
I am assuming your vehicle is a patrol and if you paid around 40k for it im assuming it is a fairly late model there for you should have an electric spedo, wich would indicate your car is showing the correct klm... Dont Worry
It sounds to me this is about principal, im with you there!


AnswerID: 119491

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 20:54

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 20:54
If it's principle only, settle for what you can get.

Never, never go to court on principle.

Courts are not about principle or justice (unfortunately). They are about winners and losers. And they get it right about 50% of the time when the facts are not blindingly obvious.
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Follow Up By: Member - iMusty (VIC) - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 21:22

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 21:22
Yes, principles are indeed expensive.

Learn to lose sometimes if it's just about the principle.

Get the books from Nissan.
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Follow Up By: rudu - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 21:43

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 21:43
Im with principle.

Im easy going and can understand a mistake but this was a straight out lie. If it was the other way around they wound hound me like a dog. This car maybe ok but the next easy going shmuck may get a bomb. This may make them think twice next time. Well I think this car is ok? to soon to tell.

50% sounds ok if no one does anything they just keep getting away with it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 22:24

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 22:24
Well, go for it, Rudu. Sounds like you are fired up.

You have every reason to be angry and indignant. But you'll need a good lawyer and they cost money.

So you are now talking about spending real money.

But in the end (indignation and anger aside); if you are happy with the vehicle and the price you paid; no harm no foul.
Good luck
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Reply By: babs - Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 22:34

Friday, Jul 08, 2005 at 22:34
Rudu I just read that you have the books in writing to be delivered, it might just be an honest mistake, why else would a dealer promise the books in writing to you if he cant deliver, (but then again who knows?) Have you taken it higher above the managers head? Insist enough and you will get these books! can I ask which dealer?

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Reply By: Member Eric - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 07:59

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 07:59
Guy's I think you have missed the point. If the vehicle had a history , dont you think they would have printed it off for him already. Whats happened here is that they dont want to show the history that they found.
AnswerID: 119526

Follow Up By: crewser - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 08:38

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 08:38
Im with Eric on that one. no books means bad history 9 times out of 10. ie no service/more kay`s in book than speedo(dash from wreckers)/owned by mining company ect.
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 09:57

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 09:57
I agree also. I know of people that conveniently loose the service book to their vehicles prior to selling. I wonder why? Clock wound back? Not serviced on time or not at all??

Seeing that you had written down that the car comes with books it should. I would simply ask for my money back as you have paid for something you haven't recieved. If the yard doesn't want to take the vehicle back then go to small claims.

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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 11:49

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 11:49
I dont think its that drastic as Minning car, My money is that its a ex renta from up north.
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Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 16:33

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 16:33
G'day Rudu,
Eric's got it in one, they're hiding something, if it was me I'd get my money back give them the vehicle back and go get another one with books. Remember, the vehicle may be fine now and you may be happy with it, but what about in 6 months time when things start breaking due to high k's. ie. timing belts going in the middle of nowhere with only 50,000k's on the clock when it's really 110000k's.
Good luck.

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Reply By: banjodog - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 09:02

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 09:02
Rudu, are you a member of one of the auto clubs - NRMA, RACQ, RACV, etc?

If so they have free legal advise on exactly what you are dealing with. If not a member, join up, then call the legal department for advise as they will only talk to a member.

Have the specific facts on hand and get strait to the point when you talk to them - know EXACTLY what you want as an outcome to have it resolved to your satisfaction - even have it down in dot points to refer to. Photocopy any/all documentation in case you have to send stuff away for assessment.

They can give you good advise or even a possible solution based on the facts you give them and don’t bull$hit them or paint a helpless picture – just deal with the facts. They should inform you as to what you and the dealer are legally responsible for - but have an open mind in the discussion - don't be hell bent on all or nothing.

Who knows, the dealer/salesman may be just calling your bluff to see if they get away with it - and if he/she gets the sack over it - they just move onto another yard anyway - occupational hazard for them.

Good luck with it all. But take a spoonful of iMusty’s advise – if the vehicle’s OK and you just don’t have the logbooks – don’t let it wreck you life – we’ll all be dead soon enough – fill up the tank and let rip!
AnswerID: 119529

Follow Up By: rudu - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 20:09

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 20:09

Ive rang the following people and all said the same thing and most just dont care


They all say i need a price on the books to go to court youve got to remember im in s.a where a bit slow and backward here i think im about right with the price $3000
Ive got to say we have had trouble with the alternator already though.

I just have to wait and see I just got sick of the school boy lieing from the car yard.

thanks mate.
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Follow Up By: banjodog - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 16:27

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 16:27
Rudu, have you spoken directly with the dealer principle / yard owner?

Sometimes they are not aware of what their "standard" sales staff are doing. If you haven't yet seen them and you get the "oh, he's too busy to see you" line when you ask, make an appointment to see him/them - or just sit quietly outside their office. My father-in-law did the quite sitting one and it worked - but on another matter and it got him a new engine.

Explain the suitation to him/them and what you want done to clear this up as you'd "hate to drag their sales staff through court over this" and are they aware that this practice is going on in their dearlership etc etc.

You could even explain to them (with utmost confidence in your voice - nudge nudge) that you have already been in conact with consumer affairs and your ready to move on their advise but I thought I'd come to talk it over with you first. Might just work.

I've seen too many buyers of cars get sharfted after they bought the car - so go for it.

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Follow Up By: rudu - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 14:59

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 14:59
The big problem is the dealers owners son is the one that lied and every time I tried to talk to the NISSAN dealer owner, I was put through to the son. In his court defence to the court it is very clear he is trying to cover his poor hadling of it all, so he has to make me out to be in the wrong and some sort of money hungry p----. I have been able to send an email to his father telling him his son is a lier and has to lie to the end now to cover himself. But we all know hes always going to beleive his son right. At least this might teach other people to cover them self even if you are dealing with a large car yard.

Ill keep you in formed.
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Reply By: Dazzle - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 10:30

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 10:30
I think you have made the right decision...The log book is a very important part of a vehicles identity! Probably the best test is if this this vehicle was offered for sale without books how much would you pay? I really think you need to make a stand and take this all the way..don't forget that while you could be losing out now you'll also lose out again when it comes time to selling it on! The whole idea of small claims court is to keep costs down and the solicitors/lawyers out of it. Worse case scenario is you'll be out of pocket a few dollars (court costs) and a little peeved at the system. On the other hand you may end up with books/compensation and or both. Make sure you do your home work before court day...this guy may still decide to settle before the big day, they may waiting to see how far you'll go. If you want to go to the trouble you could also try and subpoena the original owner or let it be known to the dealer that you intend too!.. it might put the wind up him. Good luck>
ps. As for your question how much are the books worth? on 40K I think asking 3K is more than reasonable, don't forget you're losing now & when you sell.
AnswerID: 119536

Reply By: PhilRob - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 15:45

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 15:45
It's nice having books but means jack if the vehicle hasn't been serviced properly,
I was talking to service manager of Toyo dealer once about a 100,000 service on
a 1HZ, he said if the timing belt looks ok we don't worry about it. ha ha stuff that.
Not that I was going to let them touch it anyway.
AnswerID: 119560

Reply By: babs - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 15:51

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 15:51
Hey Rudu its easy for people to give you advice like go to court when its not there time or money. More than likely it probably is an ex renta, which is not a problem.
Question are you happy with the vehicle? if so fight for the service history and books or replacement books. its not about how much money you can make out of this. Enjoy your vehicle its obviously what you wanted other wise you would not have purchased it. If its giving you problems and you think it has to do with its previous history then by all means go to court. As far as subpoena for the previous owner, thats not possible, there protected by the privacy act. You might be lucky enough to get the imformation from a Nissan dealer. If you have no luck let me know I have a contact that maybee able to help you, theres no harm in asking.
Reply to me I should be able with reg# and vin chassis# be able to find out if it was an ex renta or possibly who it was sold to.(no names mentioned it will be private previous owner or a business, if it was a government department police state forrest etc, it will be stated and it might be a start to get your service hostory, as some of them take care of there own servicing.Why nissan possibly does not have history ?)

AnswerID: 119561

Follow Up By: Dazzle - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 19:45

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 19:45
Hey Babs,
You mention that it is easy for people to give advice 'like go to court'....correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that the whole idea of the forum, just for things like this `Advice'. And isn't Rudu after advice! Your right about one thing, Rudu shouldn't be looking at trying to make money out of this venture...but he shouldn't be looking at getting ripped off either.

There is no doubt he is happpy with the vehicle..he bought it!! but he didn't get what he paid for NO BOOKS!!!. verbally or written doesn't matter one little bit. Now, as far as being an ex government vehicle, don't you think Rudu's Nissan friend would have freely offered this advise!! Yes I think so, it is obvious it isn't..that's because he is either being ripped off or the books have been missed placed or some other reason.

ps here's a tip for ya can make application through the court about who you want to appear as your witnesses(subpoena) ...guess who that could include?? i'll put you out of your misery - previous owner....
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Follow Up By: rudu - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 19:49

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 19:49
Babs thanks for your interests, I get the fealling you have experience in the car trade somehow.I dont want to waste yor time just yet as I think Ive got everything coverd but I think I better tell the full story for everyone.I had my choice down to 3 cars. 2 were 2003 models about 40,000km still under new car warranty, got the prices down to around $38000 after long dealings and a lot of bla bla bla with salesman both had good books. The third was an ex-rental same km but had dodgy books that could void new car warranty. Stoped at a major nissan dealer in s.a to check out about the dodgy books and warranty.

Well thats when they showed me this car that they just bought in from n.s.w. It hadnt been detailed yet so I got to see it as is, I found the auction note in glove box stating no service books. Told salesman the car was to old 2000 and to many km 85000km but asked the price they didnt know, so I told them what I wanted on car with a 50000km nissan warranty 2 year. eventally they came up with a price $40,000.

I said to much for the car thats hasnt got a servicelog books, this car has done off road work and could be hammerd.( I worked out the car had $13000 worth of extras.)
Anyway salesman got manager (dealer owners son) . He guaranteed the the log books were on there way and would be in the next few days. took the car home for 2 days seemed ok I also was promised it would go through nissan workshop inspection. had all put in writing.

Two weeks later yard rang to pick car up I faxed a copy of contract to make sure everything was there -everythings ready come down- get there no books or copy of mech report. I didnt pay until I had it in writting again will rewcieve log books for the car.

After 3months of ringing and having the salesman and manager all say they dont know about the books but have been told they will be here at the end of week I take out a court order 2 weeks later I get a new set of books with 1 1000km service shown. there court defence said i agreed to new books with a couple of services in them. theres still a lot more lieing but this is taking to long . they just never had the books the funny thing is the manager said he wouldnt touch a car with dodgy books.

look thanks heaps but I think it might be better if I dont know which lake its been in?
ill just try to teach the car yard a lesson after im finished with this ill say the name of the yard.

thanks heaps again and will keep you informed
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Follow Up By: babs - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 21:59

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 21:59
Hey Dazzle your right the site is all about giving advice, I stand corrected, I just figured no point reving Rudu up about going to court if its not going to benefit him. And so thats my advice so I respect all other advice given to Rudu, and myself on my own posts, dont take it the wrong way!

I do though beg to differ about the witness, when we purchase a vehicle we are protected by a privacy act it should be in your contract between you and motor dealer. Besides its not against the law to sell a vehicle without books, so the previous owner would have rights, on what grounds would they call him as a witness as far as he would be concerned its not his business, mind you im speakind as if previous owner is private what if a bus, or gov dept harder.
Anyways thats neither here nor there after reading the full story Rudu has left.

Hey Rudu I really hope this all works out for you I can imagine the frustration you must be going through, not what you want when you purchase a vehicle, its ment to be all good.. Just a thought " how good would the world be if there was just more honesty."
One good thing I enjoy about this site is besides differences in opinions its all honesty, unbiased advice not many places we can get that...Im gratefull...

Regards to everyone,

FollowupID: 374695

Reply By: Swine Hunter - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 16:36

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 16:36
I would tell them to give me my $$ back and take the car.

If they have found a history (which they can easily do) they don't want to show it, probably because there is very little to show for the 80k's it's done, or there is no history of servicing at all. Either way it's not good.

Consider a vehicle that has not been serviced for say 60k's you have just paid good $$ for. I can assure you that if you sell it in the next few years, being a relativley late model vehicle, prospective buyers will want the books, and a dealer on trade in valuation will certainly tell you that with no books it is hard for them to sell it, so they will deduct from you alot less than the $500 they say the books are worth.

To me a 5 year old car with 100k's and no history is worth thousands less than one with impeccable books.

I say if you go to court, if in writing you have a promise from the dealer that books will be delivered with car, you will win, it's just a matter of what the compensible outcome value will be. If it goes to court, you can also seek costs from the dealer for legal expenses in the event you get up.

I think your offer of $3k is very reasonable for a vehicle of this value, believe me if you go to sell it 5-6 years old with nil history for the first 80k's you will not sell it anywhere near as easily as a similar vehicle with good books, not unless you give it away.

Bottom line:
Give it back insist on refund, unless you believe you can't replace it with similar vehicle for same $$ you spent on this one.
AnswerID: 119569

Follow Up By: babs - Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 18:40

Saturday, Jul 09, 2005 at 18:40
Swine Hunter, I dont think he has to go to that extreme over a set of books. maybe he got a really good deal on the vehicle and to replace it would probably cost more than what he originally spent, I think a bit of persistance and this should be resolved. the dealer might be having problems with the person who originally traded it, or the dealer purchased it from the auctions and was told it has books and they are yet to deliver it to him, who knows the full details? Like I said a bit of persistance and he should get what he's after. I can tell you for a fact that if it goes to court the dealer taking the vehicle back just wont happen

FollowupID: 374662

Follow Up By: rudu - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 14:18

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 14:18
Swine hunter.

The car cant go back now, its been too long because the dealer kept lieing saying the books will be here at the end of each week 4 MONTHS hoping I would go away. A car yard will only say there worth money if its to benifit them .Then there worth $10,000.
These car yards act like there doing you a favour buy selling you the car
and have all these fake awards up for great service, and were a family company so we realy care.
when it comes to more then 10min work they act like its the end of the earth.
I supose it does only take a 2 day course the become a PROFESSIONAL

The thing that gets me this is a major NISSAN DEALER in S.A thats turned to strait out lieing to cover them self instead of dealing with it in a professinal way.

swine hunter leave those poor little pigies alone your dogs might get hirt

thanks mate.
FollowupID: 374726

Reply By: babs - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 18:56

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 18:56
Your right about that Rudu,these monkeys give the motor industry a bad name!
Very unfortunate your little mishap, most of the people in the industry I know would have gone out of the way for you and definatly delivered on there promises..

I did have a problem with the new Jeep I bought my wife last year, but thats another story...BEST ADVICE TO ANYONE DONT BUY A JEEP THERE A PEICE OF SH#T.... RRRRRRRR im still going with my jeep problems, like I said earlier I understand your frustration...

Good Luck,

AnswerID: 119676

Follow Up By: rudu - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 16:13

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 16:13
,Funny thing the other car i was looking at came from a chrysler jeep dealer, It had books with services not stamped and was an ex rental.

so when the salesman gave me the hard sell I said Ill sighn up on the condition the warranty wouldnt be void. He said it would be fine and wouldnt be because of it. I rang nissan they said it could because ex rental and dodgy books so when I pulled out they said theyd take me to court but of course they couldnt.

Ill never buy from a chrysler dealer either so I think were running out of places to by cars.
FollowupID: 374866

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 19:04

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 19:04
I'm also in Adelaide and had a problem with a dealer some years back. I found the RAA technical guys to be very fair in listening and providing an objective opinion. If you're a member, give them a call.

Best of luck - it appears to me that you have been given a raw deal.

AnswerID: 119677

Follow Up By: rudu - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 16:25

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 16:25

I did call the raa and they said the only thing to do is court but I need to have a price, thats the hard thing and I think the car dealers know it.

Phil your not a survayor by chance I think Ive seen your truck and met you on site once.
FollowupID: 374868

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 18:18

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 18:18
No, not a surveyor. I have a few mates in Adelaide with similar canopies on the back, but they aren't surveyers either.

FollowupID: 374882

Reply By: vitara - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 14:19

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 14:19
Hi Rudu, go for it mate,I bought a brand new suzuki in 1998 (not a four wheel drive) but it was on principle, Took it in to get serviced get a phone call halfway through the day car had been involved in an accident while they were on test drive, young bloke put it into a gutter mounted the curb and hit rear quarter on brick fence. Not to mention the wheels suspension etc. Once repaired by a panel beater in 7Hills sydney took it to Ric Damillian suzuki on parramatta rd told him it had been smashed etc only gave me wholesale price as they do not sell previously smashed vehicles and althou I had log books he also does not sell cars unless with full service history with books. I think the books make a big diff. And if nissan can't prove service records how are you when you go to sell it. I took the servicing dealer to court and won (took them on myself) no solicitor just paperwork, and won the difference between the lack of value due to car been damaged forget the correct jargen but was awarded $2800.00 diff. Kept the car repairs were fine but it was the principle of it . Mate go for it dont back down, oh yeah and they had to pay court costs as well
AnswerID: 119775

Reply By: Member - Smocky (NSW) - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 21:11

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 21:11
Hey Rudu,

You've probably already said this, but tell them the measly few thousand you want as compensation for their "trickery" is far cheaper than the bad publicity they will receive if they do you wrong.

Or as my brother says, "I have mates that aren't as forgiving as me, and who knows what they'll do when I tell them you dudded me. Don't know how much those front windows in your showroom are worth either, but I bet their damn expensive to replace" (That's a joke of course!)

I can't re-inforce enough what's been said above though, you MUST decide on what outcome you want first. If you no longer want the truck, then I'd be very surprised if you couldn't force them to take it back. THEY broke the contract, THEY have caused the delays in negotiating whilst "looking" for them, but none of that matters if you want to keep the truck.

Don't feel too bad, a good buy is still a good buy, just maybe now not quite as good.

Work out what you want and then go after it.

Very best of luck mate.

AnswerID: 119868

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