Which Winch,i need help

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 15:26
ThreadID: 24591 Views:20153 Replies:16 FollowUps:5
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I`m looking at buying a winch for my GU Patrol and idon`t know whether to buy one of those Chinese 12000lb ones on ebay for $750 or buy something like a premier for $1350 which about the top of my budget.Some will say a Warn is the way to go but they are too bloody expensive,though i may get a good secondhand Warn for that money......i`d love too hear your advice on what you`ve tried.....any got an X9 Superwinch,if so what are these units like.Yes its obvious,i`m very confused ......your thoughts............
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Reply By: Leroy - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 15:46

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 15:46
I was looking at those $750 12000lb jobs and wondered what they'd be like also. I ended up buying a 2nd hand 10,000lb warn which I'm happy with. Funny thing is I haven't had to use it in anger yet and the Patrol is a lot more capable than my last which I used the 8000lb warn a number of times. So it may be hard to justify buying something you may not use. I also have a Tirfor but they are blood hard work!

Leroy
AnswerID: 119645

Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 16:13

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 16:13
jeremy
I know bugger-all about winches......... but let me relate something to you that I witnessed a few weeks ago........ a friend imported a winch, no-names-no-pack-drill... mounted it and went to a local property to try it out. Winching up a fairly steep "jump-up" and his "navvy" see's that the cable isn't quite right so he tells the driver to reverse back down.... then they simply wind the cable right off the drum..... it was NOT attached!

Made me realise how easily that could have been tragic.... if that cable had of parted company on a bigger cliff out in the bush or something, he would have been in serious trouble.

Get the best quality you can, and give it a thorough workout in "controlled" conditions to make sure it all works properly!

AnswerID: 119647

Follow Up By: Haza - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 17:22

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 17:22
I have a Warn winch XD9000 and was told not to release the last five winds off the drum. I recently removed my cable and found that the winch end has only a weak crip connector very similiar to a battery lead. It wouldn't hold any weight. It is just used to help with the start of the wind.
So I guess if you have 30 metres of cable then it really only usable for about 27 - 28 meters.
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FollowupID: 374749

Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 07:06

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 07:06
On my mates winch, the cable stopped under a "tag' that was loose on the drum. He took it to a riggers place where they put the crimp on. If done properly, that crimp is load rated. Similar thing is used in rigging around the world. He then bolted it to the drum with a high tensile nut and bolt. And I think he said he won't wind it right out, which to me sounds like common sense anyway..... so what Haza says about only using 27-28 metres is good advice.
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FollowupID: 374807

Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 16:21

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 16:21
For the weight of a GU Patrol I would see a 9000lb winch as the smallest you should fit. The 10K & 12K low mounts are conciderably heavier & although more suited to pulling the weight are damm slow. Ideally the 9500lb low mounts from Warn & Ramsey are the best of both worlds with a great line pull & a quick unloaded rewind for fast pack up. The Chinese winches are an unknown quantity as far as reliability, only to say you usually get what you pay for. For intermittent use they may be ok but if they have cheap solinoids that stick then they won't be any good to you when it fails in a bog. Have seen several failures of the X9 superwinch (solinoids) but when they are working they are fine.
Keep an eye out for a good 2nd hand unit as many fit them just in case but never use them.
It's always difficult trying to buy quality on a budget. Just a matter of how much you want to compromise.
Cheers Craig..........
AnswerID: 119648

Reply By: 120scruiser - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 16:39

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 16:39
I sell the Brawns and I use one. They are 9500lb and very good but you can go to Repco and buy one for just over 900 bucks and water proof it yourself. Relocate the electrical coupling and you have a Brawn/TJM Ox/ Repco/T Max etc.
Same origin and save money.
Spend the 500 bucks on the missus that way you get a winch, you get a couple of hours in the shed away from her pulling it apart water proofing it and she gets 500 bucks. Every body wins.

Well thats the theory as my wife isn't here at the moment.

Cheers
120s
AnswerID: 119650

Follow Up By: Exploder - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 17:30

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 17:30
Isn’t the TJM-OX Electric and hydraulic winch’s a re-bagged Mile Marker Winch Same gear that the U.S army use
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FollowupID: 374752

Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 13:28

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 13:28
G'day 120scruiser,

$500 bucks for a couple of hrs!!! Sheeeet, whats it cost ya to get away for the whole day?

At those rates I can't afford a 1/2 trip to 4by accessory shop!!

Avagoodn
Pezza
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FollowupID: 374847

Reply By: Member Eric - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 18:34

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 18:34
Years ago I would have said get a warn. I have seen all the brands fail , even Warn. They are ALL made in china now . Get the cheapest one
AnswerID: 119671

Reply By: dirtdodger - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 18:34

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 18:34
Recently purchased a Chinese 9500 lb winch from Repco for $800.
Fitted it to my sons GQ and it works fine.
The only difference between the 9500 thru 12000 models is the cable diameter.......and more money.
They have a "agricultural" 5.5 HP motor and lots of low gearing..........the gears are also" agricultural".
But................After a stripdown and lubrication with real grease, waterproofing the electrics, soldering the terminals on all the heavy cables (they fall off), I am impressed with its operation.
ie. Winching a heavy 4wd up a very steep incline efficiently with minimal heat buildup in the motor.
Yes. It's rough around the edges compared to my warn lowmount, but I think it is a more rugged unit.
Will the solenoids fail like warn ones do? Time will tell.

And yes, I would buy one for my own vehicle.
But I would strip it down and lubricate correctly, and fix the electrics first.
AnswerID: 119672

Reply By: F4Phantom - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 19:06

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 19:06
I have had a lot of experiance importing cheap generic chinese electric motors for different vehicles. I find the chinese are capable of making good equipment, but usually dont. One good thing is they fall down in areas a DIY person can usually improve in, eg cheap (read soft steel) bolts, fittings etc.. What i usually do is get the chinese motor, strip it down, replace all the convenient components you can easily and cheaply get too. You end up with a strong and reliable unit with low outlay + some work. An easier method is just use it till it breaks, then DIY the break. If there are any problems it will be small weak plastic parts which have special holes and mouldings which are difficult to fabricate. Spare parts is a non event with a lot of chinese product at this point.
AnswerID: 119678

Reply By: jeremy - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 19:31

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 19:31
Wow ,while i was away from my pc i had pretty much decided on a second hand Warn,but reading your excellent replies i`m now leaning to a chinese design and stripping it before fitment and performing lube and electrical service,me being a qualified sparky and mug mechanic.I`m going to first ring around the wreckers tommorow to see if there is any low mileage used warns and if no luck then i`ll seriously look at the chinese versions !......I`d like to thank f4phantom....dirtdoger.....eric.......120 cruiser....crackles....brian and leroy for your advice.......much appreciated !
AnswerID: 119680

Reply By: jeremy - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 19:38

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 19:38
Woops forgot to thank cheers120s ,thanks again and my wife liked the idea
AnswerID: 119681

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 20:44

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 20:44
From outerlimits4x4.com

ITEM:
Warn 12,000lb low mount winch

CONDITION:
Used - reconditioned

REASON FOR SELLING:
Current vehicle died and the winch is too big for the next vehicle

PRICE AND PRICE CONDITIONS:
Would like $950.00

EXTRA INFO:
Winch plate to suit a 1982 Cherokee if reqd

LOCATION:
Nilma, near Warragul. Victoria
AnswerID: 119688

Reply By: Chaz - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 21:42

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 21:42
jeremy,
A few things worth knowing if your in the market for a Chineese winch. The Brawn ZR, TJM Ox and T-Max winches are all almost identicle to each other.
A while ago, 4x4 Magazine did a winch comparison (called Winch Warfare) and there were some interesting results. I won't bore you with the details, but here are the results in there 4x4 Star ratings.
Magnum 9K 2/5 Stars $1350
Superwinch X9 3/5 " $1925
Premier Winch 4/5 " $1499
Warn XD9000 3/5 " $1850
Brawn ZR-9500 3/5 " $1450
TJM OX 9500 3/5 " $1586
T-Max EW-9500 3/5 " $1595
4x4 Magazine rated the Premier Winch the highest, although they said the Superwinch had a better quallity finish, but the Premier won on price, was one of the quietest and ran cooler than some of the others.
Chaz
AnswerID: 119700

Reply By: Ozman - Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 23:00

Sunday, Jul 10, 2005 at 23:00
going down the cheap road always leads to the most expensive path...

maybe not!! read this saying somewhere and liked it!!

Good luck with whatever whinch you get! Let us know.

David
AnswerID: 119712

Reply By: dirtdodger - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 11:01

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 11:01
Jeremy,
As you are a sparky, I will talk "sparky" to you.

If you buy a Chinese winch, here's the deal...............
Chuck out the el cheapo semi shielded bearings in the motor and install decent sealed bearings.
Strip down the rest, clean out that stuff that the Chinese call grease, take any burrs or rough edges off the gears and re pack with molibdinem disulfide grease. (Castrol LMM)
The solenoid pack uses two double throw solenoids (compared to Warns usual four single throw types), interconnected with aluminium busbars. The busbars come dangerously close to shorting on adjacent terminals and need to be trimmed with a file to prevent a future meltdown.
Dont take the wiring setup as correct. Mine had the positive input wired so that +ve was supplied continuously to the field connections when not in use. Still worked ok, but not the safest way to go.
As previously, solder the heavy guage terminals, and lots of silicon on the solenoid box.
Most lowmount winches use a no backdrive brake inside the cable drum which expands onto the drum to prevent backdrive.................and when the winch is driven in reverse.
When you drive a lowmount in reverse, you are actually driving against the brake.
Therefore, reverse operation should only be to take the load off the cable, then pull the cable out manually.
If one HAS to lower a vehicle down a mountain, do it slowly and intermittantly to prevent cooking the brake....................(and cooking the plasma rope if fitted).

Happy winching

AnswerID: 119743

Reply By: chump_boy - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 12:43

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 12:43
Let me say upfront that I actually import those "cheap Chinese Winches" into Australia. It is just a hobby at this stage, but depending on the quality, we may be bringing in a whole lot more soon. See mr_4wd on ebay ;)

Of the 24 we imported about 4 months ago, 3 are still to be sold, but the rest (bar a couple waiting to be fitted) are all installed, and working fine. Most are 12000lb units, and 4 are 9500lb units (2 installed, 2 in my shed). We always recommend getting an auto electrician to do the install, just to make sure.

We will probably wait a couple more months to see if any problems develop, then import some more from there. We'll probably bring over some 15000lb hydraulic units as well, just to see what they are like.

If anyone wants some information about them, drop me an email - chumpion at tpg.com.au, and I can post pics or data.

As I said above, we are more than happy with them so far. They are a little bit noisy, but don't seem to get too hot during normal operation. The weight of the 12000lb units is quite low as well - 39kg whick includes the cable, hook and rollers.

Cheers,

Chris
AnswerID: 119752

Reply By: jeremy - Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 19:44

Monday, Jul 11, 2005 at 19:44
Thanks again guy`s for your valuble advice,found a Warn today at a wreckers behind a bent bullbar,couldn`t see any numbers but it was a clean looking Warn in there.I started to get very intested as he only wanted around $750 bucks for it !After finally pulling off that bent bullbar it revealed a near new 8000lb Warn .......too small for my Patrol ......i was bleeding.I was hoping it was an xd9000 but no luck.I`m a little worried about the reliability now of the chinese winches as in bearings,gears,solenoids.Had a look at my mates Warn today,yes they can breakdown but generally look built to last and ok to rebuild.........i`ll keep looking around and think it over.thanks again everyone.....jeremy
AnswerID: 119833

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 10:23

Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 10:23
You can bolt bigger motors to them to make them better.

4.6hp V 2hp
I think there is also a 6hp donk.

Try the tradingpost, thats where I got 10k warn.
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FollowupID: 374984

Reply By: dirtdodger - Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 09:56

Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 09:56
Jeremy,
Dont think that a Warn 8000 lb winch is too small for a Patrol.
My td42 GQ has had a Warn M8000 on it for 12 years......and I bought it second hand. It is an earlier model with the smaller horsepower motor.
It has been rebuilt a few times after taking it swimming, and rebuilt the solenoids. (yes, the solenoids can be dismantled and repaired)

I carry a couple of blocks to reduce the load if required.
Quoting figures: conservative estimate with a safety margin.
Single line pull, depending on, cable wrap on the drum. 3.5 ton-2.5 ton.
Double line pull, one block inthe line. 7ton-5ton.
If that can't get you unstuck, you're in deep do-do.
Last month, while camping in Sundown National Park Qld. I winched a fully loaded 80 series with trailer, (estimated at least 4 ton) up a deeply rutted and rocky hill in pouring rain...............Yeah, lotsa fun. The Cruiser had semi bald roadies, a cooked winch (warn),3 wet kids and an angry wife.
I had to use a singleline pull because of the terrain. The winch grunted and groaned, stuffed my cable, but got him up the hill.
AnswerID: 119926

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