100 series clutch shudder/injection pump

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 21:51
ThreadID: 24671 Views:5788 Replies:9 FollowUps:4
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G'day,
My 100 series 1HZ landcruiser standard wagon (52,000km) has recently developed an intermittent clutch shudder/chatter. Toyota couldn't fault the clutch but detected engine roughness in 4th gear which they reckon is the injection pump. They have recommended a recalibration of the injection pump ($1100.00 and its just out of warranty!) Is there any chance that the two problems are related?

I've also noticed "surging" at low revs in 3rd and 4th, and its always started very rough when cold.

Any advice/experience/opinions appreciated.
Thanks
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Reply By: Des Lexic - Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 21:58

Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 21:58
The clutch shudder when taking off with the vehicle cold is a common problem. It always happens to me for the first time then for the rest of the journey, it is not a problem.

Re the surging problem in 3rd and 4th, try resting your foot against the side trim and slowly depress the accelorator keeping your foot against the side trim. Might help.
AnswerID: 120056

Reply By: muzzgit (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 23:57

Tuesday, Jul 12, 2005 at 23:57
I know three ppl with 80 & 100 series cruisers who all have clutch shudder. The 100 it is mainly when cold, the two 80s it is all the time.
AnswerID: 120073

Reply By: 3.0turbob - Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 07:12

Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 07:12
Sao
52,000 ks and out of warranty? IS the vehicle more than 3 years old?
Don't know what state you're in, but try a local diesel specialist for pump calibration.

Rob
AnswerID: 120090

Follow Up By: Sao - Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 13:19

Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 13:19
Yes, the vehicle is just over 3 years old. I did take it to Toyota's recommended diesel specialist and they thought there MAY be a cal problem with the injection pump.
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FollowupID: 375179

Reply By: Gully - Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 07:26

Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 07:26
SAO;
I have a friend who had a 100 and had a heap of trouble with it. One of the problems was a clutch shudder. Toyota replaced the clutch under warranty and this did not fix the problem. Eventually they took the flywheel out and refaced it and put in another clutch (all under warranty) and this I believe fixed the problem. However he has since gotten rid of the vehicle.

Hope this helps. Cheers.
AnswerID: 120091

Reply By: Jason M P - Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 08:06

Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 08:06
hi Sao, Yes my 100seriers has the same problem with the clutch shudder only when the engine/gearbox is cold. It goes away after 2-5 km of drivig . my vehicle has done 160,000+ km. As for your surging problem get a diesel mechanic to look at that not a Toyota mechanic as they dont know much about diesel.
cheers ...
AnswerID: 120094

Reply By: fatz - Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 14:22

Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 14:22
Hi Sao, unfortunatly the clutch shudder is a "standard feature" with the 100. Mine is the same and even after a new clutch kit, flywheel machine and so on, it came back after about 20k! I've just got used to it after 160k's! i guess if you spend enough money on it you can make it go away!
find a good diesel shop to check out your injectors/pump. if the roughness is in fourth gear only I'd be suprised if it's your pump.
Starting rough from cold may be an injector issue. does it blow lots of smoke when cold started? might have a stickey injector? A good diesel shop will service or exchange the injectors for you at the right price. They are prone to wear out at about 60k, but have been known to last shorter/longer. this may also be linked to your surging.

the guys on www.lcool.org have a fair bit of technical on this stuff.
AnswerID: 120142

Follow Up By: Sao - Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 19:30

Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 19:30
Thanks for all the comments.
It looks like I will just have to get used to the clutch shudder. I can't beleive toyota hasn't pulled out all stops to rectify the problem. Aren't they worried about their reputation?

I think I'll get the diesel shop to check the injectors before pulling the pump off.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 375253

Reply By: atoyot - Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 22:46

Wednesday, Jul 13, 2005 at 22:46
My 100 1HZ had the same clutch shudder problem, and when getting the thing services while going round the big block, every dealer that I mentioned the shudder to was prepared to replace the clutch under warranty. When I got home, my local dealer (whom I DON'T deal with anymore) told me that Toyota's recommended first try fix was to "alter the plunger stoke on the pump to change the power characteristics, as the factory set them at a different altitiude". This sounded like bull$hit to me, but I let them do it and it stuffed what economy I had, made it run like an even slower slug, and blew a lot of soot. When I complained, they said that they got the timing wrong (I though they changed the plunger stroke?) and did it again. Initially, unbeleivably, it didn't seem to shudder as much; whether this had anything to do with softening the power delivery by changing the timing or whatever- I don't know.

The bottom line was that eventually, they put a new clutch in it and out the pump back the way iut was and it was fine for a month, then the shudder came back. I suspect that your dealer is looking at the same Toyota bulletin that my dealer saw. Apparently, some dealers have been able to fix clutch shudder by fiddling with the pump, but I just don't see how that could be. I have heard of others trying aftermarket HD clutches and having the same problem, but I suspect that it might have something to do with the flywheel, rather than just the clutch. I've just got used to it I spose, and I can't understand how they can let these issues go on un-resolved either. They really must think that they can rest on their laurels. Personally, I think a lot of these problems and the fixing of them is more related to how good your dealer is,

Hope this helps,

Andrew
AnswerID: 120265

Follow Up By: Sao - Thursday, Jul 14, 2005 at 19:45

Thursday, Jul 14, 2005 at 19:45
I agree Andrew. The shudder is so violent sometimes that it can't possibly be caused by the pump. If it was, why does it only happen when you release the clutch and not under other conditions like heavy load etc? And why is it intermittent?

My dealer hasn't actually said that the clutch shudder is related to the injection pump, just that it could be. They recommended that I get the pump checked because of "engine roughness in 4th gear", which I had never mentioned to them.

Cheers.
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FollowupID: 375457

Reply By: Dazz78 - Thursday, Jul 14, 2005 at 17:29

Thursday, Jul 14, 2005 at 17:29
G'day Sao

I am thinking along the same lines as Andrew. One of Toyota's fixes for the shudder problem is to alter injector pump timing. Maybe yours has been changed with detrimental effect. I would check this and fuel filters first before spending the big dollars.

My own vehicle, which is a 79 series ute has the same running gear as your 100 series and is prone to the same problem. Toyota replaced the clutch and flywheel under warranty. This has been a great improvement on the original however the clutch still shudders when cold or after a period of light use. Apparently the shudder is due to the fact that asbestos is no longer used in making clutch plates which results in a harder material. The flywheel that toyota use in their replacements has a coarser finish which prevents glazing and reduces shudder.

If you are thinking of replacing your clutch I would suggest Daiken as a replacement. Their kits have solved some of the problems associated with asbestos free material. I have recently fitted a kit to our Prado which also suffered shudder and is performing very well so far.

Hope this helps
Dazz.

AnswerID: 120370

Follow Up By: Sao - Thursday, Jul 14, 2005 at 19:32

Thursday, Jul 14, 2005 at 19:32
Thanks Dazz,

What you say about the asbestos free clutch plates makes sense. The fact that its temperature related might support this theory too - the glazing is "stickyer" at low temps perhaps?
My toyota dealer suggested giving the clutch a work out periodically by riding it at 3000rpm with the wheels against the gutter.

At the moment the shudder is tolerable. If I do decide to replace the clutch I will look at the Daiken kits.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 375454

Reply By: Horacehighroller - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 22:28

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 22:28
Gday SAO,

I can't help with the clutch shudder (My experience is with an auto) although it MAY be related to the "surging" you describe.
My 2000 HZJ 105 auto would shudder whilst stationary (and nearly stationary) in drive with the engine at idle. It would also surge once the torque converter locked (economy mode) at between 1400 - 1600RPM once the engine had been running for a while.

Apparently there was a problem with looseness in the "fly weights" in the injector pump compounded by "internal pump pressure". The job of the fly weights is to limit the amount of fuel injected when you floor the accelaerator at low revs. If they are loose apparently they can bounce around giving the effect of rapdly pumping the accelerator even though you are holding it firm. Blocked fuel filters can increase the problem.

In my case (at 22,00K) a NSW dealer tested the vehicle with the fuel filter bypassed, and it would not surge. They replaced the ryco fuel filter which I had fitted at 20,000K with a toyota one but the problem re-appeared later. After being given the run around by my local dealer in Melbourne, in the end Toyota paid for the pump to be dismantled and found that (apart from the dud fly weights) it had a bent shaft. It was better after the reco, but is now a problem again (110,000K)

Good luck

Peter L

AnswerID: 121223

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