4*4 question, what the

Submitted: Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 20:07
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Gday all

Spent a few day’s up at a mates property out of Geraldton, Did a bit of beach driving and managed to do a grate job of bogging myself on top of a sand dune after stoping at the top for a look, jumping back in Low Reverse got about half a meter and was on the diffs ( Arr nut’s I forgot the shovel and I have 2 broken finger’s).

Now hear is when it gets interesting, after doing a half assed attempt of digging out (Broken Finger’s, No shovel) Managed to get a little bit of movement agene before I heard a kind of grinding/popping sound, I stoped and Thought ohbleepe if busted the CV’s or a hub.

At this point a local was driving down the beach and sore me. He stoped a shouted out if I was right. I asked him if he could give me a snatch but he was not confident that he could get his 4WD up there without getting bogged him-self so he grabbed a shovel and gave me a hand digging out.

He then recounted a story about how a similar thing happened to him in his old Pajero and a Transmission cooler line burst and sprayed the exhaust manifold and set the car on fire, just what I needed to hear. Dropping the pressure from 25 to 10Psi I was out of trouble.

Going back along the beach the noise was gone and the 2 other times it was in 4*4 at the farm no noise, got home late last night and got onto the grass park near my house in 4*4 no noise except the odd bit of CV noise on full lock (Perhaps as it was still a fairly hard surface).

The Explorer has auto locking Hubs and electronic 4WD selection.

Any thoughts on what this sound may have been, maybe when I put it back in 4*4 the hubs only half engaged, would this cause something like this to happen?


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Reply By: RobEG - Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 20:41

Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 20:41
Mate, doubt that there r many exploder drivers on this site so doubt there'll be much advice on the noise. But if it helps, the only people who have never been bogged on a sandy beach haven't done much beach driving. But u obviously know the rules - if u get bogged let the tyres down, if u r still bogged let them down more. Saw a 2 wheel drive Escort 2000 with five men on board go the limit of Moreton Island (abt 40K) at high tide in soft sand - about 2 pound pressure in the tyres - unbelievable!
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 21:22

Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 21:22
Yes I am aware that they’re a few explorer drivers on this forum 3 I believe.

But as far as 4WD go, the stuff that makes them move is all fairly similar T/case, Hubs, CV’s, Diffs.

So with that in mind what I was curious about is if a hub did not engage properly or if Low range did not engage fully would this make a bad sound on application of power?
It has only done it once as I have said so not too concerned; I am just interested in what might have been a possible cause.

If It help’s they have a Borg Warner T/Case, Warn Hub’s and a Dana 35 Front Diff.

Thanks for the reply anyway.
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 21:36

Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 21:36
"No noise except the odd bit of CV noise on full lock"
What sort of CV noise you talking about? If they are making any sort of audible noise then you have a problem.
Audible clicking on full lock is a certain problem there, but whether that was the cause of your original problem is hard to know.

You may have to load up the drive line to place it under some stress to really hear the problem.
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 23:13

Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 23:13
John. Yes good point there would have been a fair amount of stress on the driveline when stuck in the soft sand, which is possibly why it made the noise. The only thing I don’t get is why it has only did it then and not on the way back over 2 other dunes and along the beach.

I am beginning to thing that perhaps something did not engage fully. Because after we dug out the second time I disengaged then reengaged 4*4 low range and no noise.

As for the CV noise (That is what I believe it is anyway) if say I was on grass or a surface that had too much grip for use of 4*4 high/low and I hade the wheel full lock for say 1.5/ 2 circles I might hear one clunk noise then back to normal. But in sand, mud, lose gravel up/down hill’s there is no noise.

You shouldn’t have 4WD engaged on hi traction surfaces anyway and I don’t use 4*4 unless I need it as the car has Toque on demand which will split the drive if I hit a unforseen bogy section and switch on the fly means I can go to 4*4 high I the blink of an eye if needed.

I am sure the CV’s are no longer in tip top condition but there is nothing indicating there is a major problem with them yet, I will defiantly be checking them out as a possible cause of this noise (Even thou it has only occurred once) to date.

Thanks for the reply.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 23:49

Monday, Jul 18, 2005 at 23:49
OK so you stressed it on the other dunes exiting the route and no noise?, then maybe you are correct something was not fully engaged.

As I said all you can do is take it for another drive and see if the problem re-occurs.

Your suggesting the CV or other noise is linked to a transmission / drive line wind up stress problem? Again I guess it could be.

Someone else may come up with a better suggestion than me.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 18:18

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 18:18
Thanks John.
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Reply By: muzzgit (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 00:42

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 00:42
I'm thinking maybe a tyre rubbing on the guard if the rear suspension was at full tilt, or the front if wheels turned and suspension at full tilt.

Cheers,

Muzz
AnswerID: 121046

Reply By: fozzy - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 07:26

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 07:26
exploder
possibly mudflaps rubbing on tyres -u say it was down to axles which most likely would mean the flaps have dug down and when u were trying to reverse back down pushed a flap/or flaps onto tyre.
dont know how much clearance u have around that area or how flexible flaps are
just a thought anyway
cheers
fozzy
AnswerID: 121055

Reply By: Grungle - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 07:58

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 07:58
Never heard of anyone doing CV's in sand - especially when the front of the car is facing uphill. CV's only usually go when facing downhill at full lock with lockers on. The weight of the vehicle is mostly on the front wheels and the one that has grip will break a CV if the car cannot move. Other times it will go is if a front wheel is off the ground and madly spinning then it contacts the ground which 'grabs' the wheel. The CV will 'explode' if the wheel cannot slip due to the amount of torque the engine is transfering to the wheels. Hubs tend to go in the same fashion.

Check the CV boots to see if intact and no sand has gotten in. Sand in brake calipers / handbrake drum can also cause the sounds you describe. Used to get grinding sounds in my Pajero when driving through really soft but usually slightly coarser sand.

Regards
David
AnswerID: 121058

Reply By: SantaAus - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 08:08

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 08:08
Exploder,

Try this reason, It will be your automatic hubs disengageing and then re-engaging. It's no big deal (If it is that), I have a Nissan Terrano, with Automatic hubs and over the course of a weekend on the sand it would happen 2 to 3 times. Automatic hubs are renoun for unlocking themselves when you don't want them to.

SantaAus
AnswerID: 121060

Follow Up By: gottabjoaken - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 12:18

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 12:18
Exploder,

Agree with SantaAus's suggestion.

On my Paj, the auto hubs unlock if you drive gently in opposite direction, so I bet you were doing the reverse/forward thing to try to get loose.

If you drive "firmly" when you change direction they should stay locked, but being tentative when you apply the power can unlock them and then lock them again. Sounds dreadful, and - i guess - not advisable to do it too often!

Ken
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 13:57

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 13:57
It could also have been the diff switching power to left and right wheels, heard many a 4wd do that when wheels are only just touching the sand, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
AnswerID: 121107

Reply By: Exploder - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 18:16

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2005 at 18:16
Thanks everybody, all the suggestions sound plausible and it sound’s as if it was a combination of thing’s occurring at the right time, which caused the sound.
You know what it’s like when the car makes a weird noise you have never heard before and you start to get a bit pedantic about it.

As it didn’t do it again for the rest of the weekend I think I will pass it off as a one off occurrence.

Cheers
AnswerID: 121159

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