Windscreen Damage - Who's to blame
Submitted: Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 19:55
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Member - Phil G (SA)
So a vehicle comes the other way and throws up a stone, cracking your windscreen.
Who's to blame??
Is it the vehicle who threw up the stone, OR
Is it you for travelling at sufficient speed for damage to occur?
Cheers
Phil
Reply By: Lone Wolf - Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 20:14
Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 20:14
I think this is one of those things that is just say... all too hard, so they let you have a free one each year or something.
If you were following a car, and say... his bumper bar assembly fell of, and you ran over it, and sustained damage, then I guess, he would be responsible.
Same car, same day, same road, and the car ran over say... a cardboard box that was windblown onto the road, and it lodged in your grill, and your car overheated, I guess you couldn't really sue the car.
I am thinking the same would go for stones, because they don't belong to the car, but belong to the road.
Unfenced road sides... if you hit stock, you sometimes can sue the property owner. Unfenced... to bad.
Now, come to think of it, I haven't really give you an answer, have I...
If I run over a pedestrian, because he walked when the little flashing light said "DONT WALK", who pays for the cleaning and re-polishing of my bullbar? Sorry... couldn't resist, and YES, to all those do-gooders... I have bit hit by a car whilst walking.
Cheers
Wolfie
AnswerID:
121658
Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 00:01
Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 00:01
if a cardboard box flew up into your grill, your car overheated and f..... the motor and you tried to sue me I'd tell you to watch your gauges and go f... yourself!!
wouldnt you????
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Follow Up By: Member - Ray - Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 16:59
Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 16:59
wolfie, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you hit straying stock the only person going to be sued is Y_O_U
When I was driving trains on the east west line we often cleaned up some sheep or cattle and the strange thing was it always was a prize ram or bull the railways got billed for.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 21:16
Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 21:16
OK, The windscreen damage depends on how hard the stone hits the windscreen.
The stone gets flicked out sideways so it has no velocity towards your vehicle.
So in my opinion, while its the speed of the other vehicle that causes stones to flick up, its actually the speed of your vehicle that causes the damage.
Why do most people continue to swear at the other driver and blame them for the damage???
Pulling over and slowing down on dirt roads is what stops you breaking windscreens.
Debate??
AnswerID:
121677
Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 21:20
Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 21:20
stones must travel a different direction in S.A Phil?
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Follow Up By: Patrolman Pat - Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 21:43
Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 21:43
I'm with you Phil. The oncoming car isn't likely to throw stones forward at you. If you slow dpwn or stop stones thrown behind the oncoming car ain't goind to hurt ya.
I've chipped two winsdscreens, both times on bitumen hitting a stone thrown up from the car in front
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Follow Up By: Alex H - Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 22:35
Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 22:35
I beg to differ!!! The first windscreen I broke was broken by a stone thrown up by a roadtrain coming the other way. The stone was about the size of a large marble, and I saw it coming from the time it flew off the RT's tyre. It hit my windscreen before the RT and I passed each other. Obviously the stone had a fair bit of velocity towards me.
Cheers,
Alex
FollowupID:
376848
Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 23:51
Friday, Jul 22, 2005 at 23:51
Alex, Go Offroad,
so what speed were you guys travelling whenyou damaged windscreens?? Honest answers hehehe
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 07:52
Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 07:52
If the oncoming car isnt likely to throw stones forward, perhaps you guys can explain why my new tray has more paint missing from the inner fender panels on the ones in front of the rear tyre, vs the fender panel behind the rear tyre?
I thought it was pretty obvious that stones will go forward, and/or out from the car.....
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 09:50
Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 09:50
'Why do most people continue to swear at the other driver and blame them for the damage???'
Because if they had slowed down a bit the stone would not have been flicked into the path of your windscreen.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 09:46
Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 09:46
The likelihood of windscreen damage is proportional to the number of stones thrown towards to you, the mass of the stones, and the square of the speed at which they hit.
The number of stones is determined by the speed of the oncoming vehicle and how far apart the cars are when they pass. A faster vehicle is tossing up more stones and to a greater height.
The mass of the stones is a characteristic of the road. Sometimes even 10 mm crushed gravel can chip or crack glass if it hits fast enough. The mass of a stone is proportional to the cube of its diameter. A one inch stone weighs 27 times as much as 10 mm crushed gravel.
The speed at which stones hit you is mostly determined by how fast you are going, given that the stones mostly flick out sideways when the tyre runs over them.
A big stone will damage your glass even if you slow to 20 kph.
So in physics, both cars are to blame. In law, which has nothing to do with physics, fairness, justice, commonsense or anything else for that matter, it sounds like it is 'tough bickies baby'
The moral of the story is that bush travellers should slow down as they pass other vehicles so as to reduce windscreen damage. If there is coarse gravel or rocks they should slow down even more. The sad fact is that the vehicle not slowing down isn't the one likely to sustain damage, and it is usually driven by someone who is either stupid, or doesn't own the vehicle and couldn't give a toss.
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Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 20:22
Saturday, Jul 23, 2005 at 20:22
There is no "accident" that is ever 100% the "blame" of one party and 0% the blame of the other. (Assuming 2 parties here but obviously there can be more or less)
My point is that if you receive a broken windscreen from a stone that pops up from the vehicle coming the other way, you have some degree of "fault" just because you are there. The other vehicle also has some degree of "fault" because it is there.
If you could prove that the driver of the other vehicle deliberately caused the stone to flick up, you might succeed in an action against him, but this type of issue is considered an "act of god". (An unsafe load is a different case)
Moving on to what causes the windscreen to break, it is a function of the mass of the stone, its speed, and its impact angle relative to the same factors from your vehicle, which generate an impact force sufficient to cause the glass to break.
So, in simple terms, if you are doing 80 and the stone is doing 80 the impact speed is 160, and the result will be the same as if you are doing 50 and the stone is doing 110. You can
test this at
home by hitting a piece pf glass with a hammer, and then hitting the hammer with a piece of glass the same size - the glass will break just the same in both cases!
AnswerID:
121773
Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Jul 24, 2005 at 19:05
Sunday, Jul 24, 2005 at 19:05
Thanks everyone for their responses.
Sorry to have some confusion in the title - wasn't interested in "liability" or insurance, just interested in what is most likely to cause a broken windscreen, and how they can be avoided. And it interests me that most people blame the oncoming driver.
My conclusion is that you, personally have no control over what the other guy does.
But by slowing down, you will reduce the velocity at which a stone impacts on your windscreen, and by pulling over to the side, you reduce the chance of a stone coming straight at you.
So YOU can avoid the majority of chipped and broken windscreens, and if you break one, you can take a lot of the blame yourself. Hardest ones to avoid are the ones when travelling on bitumen.
Just my opinion.
Cheers
Phil
AnswerID:
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