winch weight problem on 79 series

Submitted: Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 18:51
ThreadID: 25041 Views:2937 Replies:5 FollowUps:11
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Hi guys
just purchased a new Warn M10000 fitted onto a new 79 cab chassis with ARB bullbar and rally 4000 drive lights + dual battry system on the front end .
I drove it before it was all fitted and then after ,Now i can really feel the weight at the front, it just feels to Heavy
WE also had full suspension kit fitted at same time ARB
My question is what your thoughts are of changing the winch to the Warn 9.5xp which weighs approx 40kg Verses the 10000 weighing 57=17 kg saving then get rid of the wire rope and fit some Dynamica synthetic rope and save may be another 8-10 kg i was thinking that 25kg saving right at the pointy end might bring the weight back enough to make a differance , i am aware of some of the pitfalls with synthetic rope but figure in the real world i wont be using it that often
anysuggestions + comments on this would be appreciated
Cheers
BLU
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Reply By: Member - Crazie (VIC) - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:02

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:02
Hi Blu

I would suggest that the wrong coils were used in the front of your cruiser. They should have allowed for all of that extra weight and used the correct coils. Swapping the wire rope to plamsa is also a great idea but will still cost a bit of money. It just seems like a waste, you having to swap your winch to a smaller one.

Crazie
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Follow Up By: BLU - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:18

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:18
Thanks for the response Crazie
i will check on the coils however i dont think that is it the trucks not wallowing or dipping it just feel heavy at the front it may be i need to get used to it i just went to the shed and got some old weight out and piled up 25 kg thats a fair bit of weight too save ? what are your thoughts on the Warn xp 9.5 i dont think changing winches over will cost me much as it was only fitted the other day so prob just labour costs
as for synthetic change over i thought i might be able to sell my cable and pay the diff
regards
BLU
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Follow Up By: Member - Crazie (VIC) - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:30

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:30
Hi Blu

Your right, if all the work was done at once, it may be the sudden added weight. I would only be concerned about the coils if the front was sagging, but by the sounds of it, it is ok. I think drive it for a while and see how it feels after a few weeks. The wire rope should almost cover the cost, but you will get a few more meters of plamsa on.

Good luck with it mate, the warn xp 9.5 is a very good winch, see Johns response below, i am sure he has given it a fair work out on a similar 4wd

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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:14

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:14
Hi BLU
I have a Warn 9500 HS on my 78 series, It was recommended stay with that unit due to the weight consideration on the front end.
Sounded like good advice and I was prepared to by a 12000LB winch at the extra cost, They sold me down to the 9500 HS at a cheaper price.
No problem with capacity, Heavy job? then use a snatch block or two no problem.

Felt like they looked after me with good advice then.

Maybe Crazie above can help you with extra strength coils now your probably stuck with it.
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Follow Up By: BLU - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:32

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:32
Hi John
Thanks for reply
I cant see the HS model in the book i have,?
i have seen the XP 9.5 used in comps a lot within 4x4 mags ect i have heard it is a lot quicker than 10000 not that it is really important to me but i noticed the motor is 6hp verses 4.6 0n 10000
yes i think they did steer you right, mine just doesent feel right and im thinking should i change it now (only fitted other day) and just pay extra labour ect or do i drive it a while try and get used to it but if i still dont like it will brob cost to much to change it
regards
BLU
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:49

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:49
BLU I have had my 9500 HS for over 2 years now so it may have been superseded by the XP, i have not looked myself of late.

It is a higher speed winch with a faster line recovery and it has worked very well on a few heavy recoveries, bar the fact that I have had an electrical problem or two with it but thats another story.
The Warn seem to be pretty good by all accounts.

Maybe ask them about changing it over and make an evaluation from there.
I will also add that if you have not driven 78 / 79's before they are long and heavy in the front so can take some getting used to for some people.

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:32

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:32
BLU,

Nice choice :-)))

I've also got the ARB suspension, bullbar and dual battery but no winch.

Ive got the OME 859 front coils, with the N106 shocks, which is the combination you're supposed to use on the 79's if you've got a winch. What are yours???

If you've got the right springs, then I think you'll get used to it. Sounds like you did everything at once, so you'd notice the difference.

Cheers
Phil

AnswerID: 121983

Follow Up By: BLU - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:51

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 19:51
HI again Phil
i responded back to a thread conversation a while ago re tyres ect and dident hear from you again but i did take your advice along with a lot of forum positives re Goodyear MTRs i went and got some fitted today 265x75x16 instead of 285 i traded the Dunlops in
First inpressions are great very QUITE while brand new anyway
Regarding suspension i fitted old man emu nitro/ rear leafs ect not sure what model springs are ?
yeah getting everything done at once could of been a weight shock may take getting usedto not sure if i should wait that long as truck goes back for more work on wendsday so have to make a decesion would you agree 25 kg is a lot of weight to save past front wheels
whats your thoughts of diff between 2 winches
regards
BLU
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 22:59

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 22:59
Hi Blu,

Sorry about that. I checked back thru the archives, and found it 24305. I wouldn't have got email notification, so sorry missed it.

I doubt that you'd notice 25kg difference on the front of a 79series. Especially when you start loading it with a few hundred kgs at the rear.

As far as winches go, I don't know. I don't own a winch - don't really need one. Most winches in SA gather dust. But I carry a hand winch.

Yeah, the MTRs have been good. Usually takes at least 20,000k before you'd notice any increase in noise. Mine have now done 35,000k and have 9-10mm tread left.

You also asked about the Reversing Camera. I've got the Jaycar set. Very happy with it - takes all the hassle out of reversing, and parking both around town and when 4wding. But the screen resolution is not good enough for maps, which I was hoping to do as well. I have the screen that pops out of the dash. On corrugated roads, it closes itself, but I'd normally have it packed away anyway on dirt. And the screen brightness varies with the sunlight - its all adjustable, but doesn't automatically change with the shade/sun etc - just a minor point.

Cheers
phil

Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 23:06

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 23:06
The rest of your previous post:

"I have also ordered a box for the rear though not fullsize like yours ,i will mount 2 spares behind the cab caged and covered by thick chequerplate alloy then a contoured box approx 1 mtr with fridge slide and 40 lt Engel, then shelving and boxed out , i have left about 1.1 mtr of tray which im thinking of canvasing over alloy frame with zip up windows and flyscreens ,some where to roll out swag in bad weather ? may add an an oz tent out from that if needed and use as utility room ,could leave it set up and go out day tripping then back ute up to the awning when i get back to camp Theres so many options with the tray back every time i think ive got it sorted another idea comes along and ya start all over again "

Blu,
Yeah, exactly right - so many options. I've been doing the fit out one step at a time, just want to be sure about things before I go ahead and build stuff. But fitting out is a very individual thing - nice to get ideas from lots of different people. I've thought about doing a writeup of some sort about what I've done so far, and whats good and bad about it, but theres a lot more bits and pieces to make over the next few months. We spent 2 weeks away in the Simpson last month and also got a few weeks in October to test it all out. Theres lots of photos of my setup and others on 70scool.

Cheers
Phil

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FollowupID: 377183

Reply By: Crackles - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 22:15

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 22:15
Gaday Blu. For a recreation winch it's hard to go past the 9500lb winches. Weighing only slightly more than an 8,000lb they pull a Landcruiser very well & have a fast unloaded rewind speed for a quick pack up. I watched a 10,000lb Warn pulling a Patrol up a steep hill & it was painfully slow. As they use a bigger cable they actually have less cable length on each layer so when a 9.5K winch is still pulling it's maximum load on the bottom layer a 10K winch is now on the 2nd layer pulling approx 15% less. The Warn 9500 has had quite a few problems in the past with several of my mates having regular electrical issues but when they're working they're great. I chose to go with the Ramsey 9500 which has very similar line speed features & so far not a single problem. They also have a far superior clutch arrangement making it easy to freewheel the drum. IMHO the extra $$ are well spent.
The main limiting factor of an electric winch is the battery supply, so having a bigger motor does not necesarily equate to more pull. (if the battery can't supply the power it will never reach the max line pull)
The 10 & 12K Warns are built stong but are really too heavy, too slow & not suited to Cruzers.
Cheers Craig......
HZJ105 + Ramsey 9500lb.
AnswerID: 122023

Follow Up By: BLU - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 22:49

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 22:49
Hi Crackles
Thanks for the input appreciate it .
Im starting to think i should change it over while i have the chance i hear what your saying with the Ramsey but i think i might have to go with Warn for ease of change over ,any more info on what the electrical problems were with W9.5 ? were they the XP latest model ? ,any suggestion of what synthetic size to put on W9.5 or how many meters i would get on it ?
Regards
BLU
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FollowupID: 377178

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 00:22

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 00:22
Crackles you are spot on about the extra cable. I tried a 10m pull with my 10kp and because of the 50m of cable it wouldnt do it advantage is you have more cable and can use a snatch block. IMHO cable speed does not matter unless you are in a comp coz you just wsant to get out
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FollowupID: 377192

Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 22:40

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2005 at 22:40
Blu. The problems with the 9.5 Warn were related to water corroding the earth connection, motor & solinoids in the early models. I don't know anyone with the latest XP but are led to believe the issues have been solved. Have no experience with synthetic rope other than it can cut easily on rocks particually if double blocked & dragging over the ground. Just check that the 9.5 doesn't have an issue with the heat off the drum melting the rope. I suspect that would only be a concern in comps after sustained use.
That other bonus of a fast unloaded speed is that when you assist the winch by driving you have far less chance of over run which causes your cable to birdcage. The 8K high mount is by far the best for that.
If your Warn retailer will exchange it I'd jump at the chance particually after your heavy steering problems.
Cheers Craig..........
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FollowupID: 377388

Reply By: BLU - Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 23:28

Monday, Jul 25, 2005 at 23:28
Thanks Phil
I think once i get the winch sorted out i will start doing a few weekend trips away and have a good think
about what works and what doesent regading tray set up ect so will leave working on the box set up for awhile and go break the truck in
The type of reverse camera i was thinking of would be on all the time and use it instead of rear mirror also infared ? ,not sure where camera would go as i have fitted Trundle style tray under tray top have you heard of any good units with 7 or 8 inch screens??
What tyre pressures are you using on black top unloaded +loaded +off road ?
Regards
BLU
AnswerID: 122040

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 19:37

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 at 19:37
I didn't look hard at the camera/screen stuff. But you may find that the 5inch screen will be a better fit where your rear view mirror sits. Search the archives here, and you'll find reference to the infrared units. Might be "Poron" that has them.

Tyre pressures with my 265/75R16 MTRs: All loaded. If unloaded, I'd use the front pressures all round.
Highway 40/45psi F/R
Dirt roads: 24/28
Desert travel: 20/23
Soft Sand : Not much! Used 8psi down at Canunda.
Rocky trails: 24/28

I reckon you need lower orrfoad pressures with the MTRs than you would with an average highway tyre.

Cheers
Phil
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