Split rims or normal?
Submitted: Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 17:31
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jenko
I have split rims on my troopy and due for tyres but now face the dilema of staying with the split rims or changing to normal tyres on sunrasia wheels, which works out to be about the same price. What is any, are the advantages or disadvantages of split rims compared with sunrasia, (apart from being able to run tubeless tyres?)
Any ideas would be welcome
Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 19:05
Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 19:05
I've used both for many years.
Negatives for splits:
They build up heat, so the tyres wear out quicker.
Its hard to get quality tubes for them. Tubes can self destruct.
If you get a flat you have to fix it. Tubeless can be fixed on the vehicle in 5 minutes with a plug.
They are harder to balance
I find them harder to dismantle than tubeless, especially if they have been on the vehicle for a while.
When a tyre deflates, it goes down straight away - very dangerous on the highway - have nearly rolled a troopie twice because of blowouts with split rims. And you also risk destroying the tyre because of a tube failure.
When we go on club trips, its mostly the split rims that get flat tyres - often its tube failures rather than punctures.
When running low pressures in sand, you can easily turn the tyre on a rim and tear off the valve.
The only positives for a split is that they are dead easy to reassemble, but you must take care that the split doesn't fling off when reinflating. And being skinny tyres, you will get better fuel consumption. Also, its hard to roll a tyre off the rim in sand.
I won't go back to splits.
AnswerID:
124960
Follow Up By: lance2 - Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 22:22
Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 22:22
What a Load of crap this bloke talks,You can buy all the Jap made Quality tubes you like for splits, and Ive seen plenty of flats on tubeless that a plug or two or three wont fix, so they put a tube in it, Splits are simple to disasemble,If a tubeless gets a punture of the same size it too will go down staight away. I dont think this guy has ever had much experiance at all with splits, In sand most of the time its the tubeless that roll tyres off droping preasures too low trying to get the longer foot print. Most Mining, Exploration and Pastrol Co use splits, Ok they dont look as nice.Lance
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 22:38
Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 22:38
Hi ya Lance, Glad I left an impression :-)))
I'd guess I've repaired over 100 splits over the past 20 years. I ran them on my FJ55, FJ60 and HJ47 LandCruisers, and still end up repairing them on trips that I run. I've run tubeless on my last 3 LandCruisers as
well as the LandRovers and Subarus that I've owned.
Once they have been on the rims for a couple of years, you need to work a bead breaker all the way round, before you can lever up the split. New ones come apart easily - but unfortunately they are not new for long.
Tell me where you buy those Jap tubes. I was shopping for them recently for a mate. The only jap tubes we could get were second hand. The rest were the crappy Korean tubes that all the tyre shops seem to stock now. One
shop had some Pirelli tubes, and we bought them.
Read my post again about rolling tyres off rims - I think we agree here :-)))
Have a nice weekend
Cheers
Phil
FollowupID:
379820
Follow Up By: at4x4 - Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 at 08:34
Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 at 08:34
Split rims have been and gone, and only those who havent looked outside the square previously still persist with them.
Every station Im aware of runs tubeless, and are having a much better run with tyres because of it.
Apart from 5 BFG's being destroyed on my vehicle, which wouldnt of mattered which rim, I havent had a
puncture in a tubeless tyre that has gone down fast, or not be able to be plugged. [even with 17 plugs, a radial patch, and some fishing line stitching] though Im not a big fan of seperating the steel belts in the tread section to insert them into the tyre.
But if your looking for good quality tubes, Simex make a range of good think tubes in varied sizes.
FollowupID:
379830
Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2005 at 02:20
Sunday, Aug 14, 2005 at 02:20
ats4x4dotcom Rubish!!! splitties and 14 ply crossplieas are still used extensivly in the exploration industry and from what I have seen stations as
well Tubeless ROTFLMAO No tubeless made would last 5 minutes performing even light cross country duties this was shown when we had a boss come up with radials which with 3 spares which were quickly destroyed causing my ofsider to do some stip and refits with his spares (rags) .............................. and they didnt even make it crosscountry. Split rims and heavy duty tyres are still the only way to go for tough work
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Monday, Aug 15, 2005 at 08:10
Monday, Aug 15, 2005 at 08:10
I think you will find cost the reason you have stated, more than performance, and the facts of this thread seem to make you the minority on the subject, given the stations we deal with, who only use radial.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Monday, Aug 15, 2005 at 14:30
Monday, Aug 15, 2005 at 14:30
ats4x4dotcom Actually i think you will find the reason i am in the minority Is because I have worked exploratioin and done plenty of bush work at times not evn getting the crapiest track to drive on in a whole week just through bush over stumps burnout areas - just wherever needed to be accesses. I can only say in these situations which is common work environment in the Goldfields I am glad it wasnt up to you to organise the wheels/ tyres. amnd you better not waste your time trying to tell me there is a radial tyre fitted to a one piece rim that would do a better job in these conditions and be easier to fix flats than 14 ply tyres (we used
dunlop dr2) and split rims.,
Certainly since i put my radials in the shed and went to MFR supergrippers tyre costs have reduced to zero and off road performance has increased. You say splitties have had there day and for general recrational use maybe but the day I see radials on an exploration vehicle is the day I say NO WAY coz that is just unsafe
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Monday, Aug 15, 2005 at 15:05
Monday, Aug 15, 2005 at 15:05
Yep,
and we heard all the same things when....
fuel injection replaced carbies...
coil springs replaced leaf springs...
electronic pumps replaced diesel rotary pumps...
cars replaced horse and cart.....
FollowupID:
380002
Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Aug 16, 2005 at 01:02
Tuesday, Aug 16, 2005 at 01:02
yea righto if you want to get smart then advise me of a better way to go then take up the challenge - fit whatever lame system you want fit it then come over here and follow me around so i can laugh at you!!!! and sink beers while you are busy fixing flats and begging me for tyres to replace your shredded ones. until you get yourself some true off road experience perhaps you could stick to other things like driving around
geelong. and as for coil springs replacing leaves - show me a coil spring vehicle that gets loaded to way over what it is meant to and thrashed through a pit or up and down a decine or driven through trees week after week and i will show you a land cruiser ute not a landrover. Also never hears of a diesal inline pump crapping itself due to low sulphur fuel but as for rotary....... And they dont cost 12 grand
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Tuesday, Aug 16, 2005 at 07:45
Tuesday, Aug 16, 2005 at 07:45
ooohhhhhh, thought if afew more modern systems were thrown in we would get an opinion on those too,
Looks like davoe is a "technophobe"..........
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Aug 16, 2005 at 11:11
Tuesday, Aug 16, 2005 at 11:11
Still waiting for you to recomend a "modern" wheel and tyre setup suitable for exploration work. And maybe a technically enhanced vehicle for using underground. I wouldnt call myself a technophobe but I have had to do many bush repairs to 79 series cruisers and their simplicity is very important. The main reason i dont drive some sort of CRD is simply because a 15 grand vehicle suits my needs better rather than scratch up a much more expensive vehicle where just one trip could cost you 10 grand in lost rersale value. BTW had a drive of a new prado on the weekend which was very nice.
Also splits and crossplys were an obvios choice for me as the 6 wheels and 5 tyres cost me less than 1 third of what just one decent radial would cost and still been far less bush freindly. dont forget where I live there is no bitumen driving to get out bush
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: at4x4 - Tuesday, Aug 16, 2005 at 12:25
Tuesday, Aug 16, 2005 at 12:25
quote
"Also splits and crossplys were an obvios choice for me "
This is hwere your replies have sort of taken a wrong turn davoe, this thread
A/ isnt about you
b/ isnt about underground, or exploration
But about a travellers vehicle, and a simple question really, so, if you can broaden your outlook past your own patch, you may be able to contribute something worthwhile, and to do with the question on a thread.
BTW, tried the kevlar belted projects, or BAJA's?
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Aug 19, 2005 at 16:19
Friday, Aug 19, 2005 at 16:19
My old man was running tubeless in the mid 80's on his Telecom Landcruiser in the East Pilbra, they used to go "exploring" in the dry season (the quiet season) and re-discovered such
places as Bowels
Gorge and the Coogan river flying fox, they used to drive where there were no tracks, never seemed to have a problem, they used to go so rough that they destroyed 3 landcruisers each in 6 years. (not from crashing BTW). They new it was time to order a new vehicle when they required a
fork lift to load the old one onto the semi! LOL
I believe that tyres have proabally come a long way in the time between now and then too, so I think splits may be on the way out... But hey, maybe not, I've never used them personally so I can't bag them too much! ;-)
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Friday, Aug 19, 2005 at 16:46
Friday, Aug 19, 2005 at 16:46
Without wanting to crank this back up again i got converted when working for the geological survey - It was amazing the lenght of sticks you can pull out of 14 ply tyres and how much burn out you can drive through not to mention running over jam bushes which snap off and bend over creating stakes for the way back. Splits are best used in conjunction with heavy duty tyres such as that as I would imagine it would be damn hard to strip and refit them onto one pieces in the field.
The
perth guys worked mainly in the
pilbara and really struggle when they have to fill in for the goldfields division as they are not used to the overgrown conditions. A few have made the comments of splits being on the way out and this would be true for general use which would be why they dont see them round much on the streets any more. however crosplys and splits are still the only combination I have seen on green fields exploration vehicles and other vehicles that do heavy bush and cross country work
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Reply By: Exploder - Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 20:03
Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 20:03
My feeling is that split’s have had there day, although they still have a place on exploration 4WD, station and off track exploring as radials do not even come close to cross-ply bush tyres witch is what these cars require due to the type of terrane they are constantly operating in.
When you look at tubeless tyres for general 4WDing the advantages far out way the disadvantages
Handle
well on the highway, more stable at speed, no tube failures, better for beach work and suitable for outback travel, can repair most punchers with tyre still on the rim and in some cases still on the 4WD and it goes on. Then if all else fails you can still put a tube in it to get back to civilisation or just fill it up with Spinifex (Arr yes good old bush mechanics)
To me nothing look’s more unstable on the road than a loaded up troopy on split rims.
Split’s have a small place on some 4WD’s but for most tubeless are much more practical and preform better.
Personal opinion, If you like to run split’s that’s’ your choice.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Willem - Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 20:14
Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 20:14
Being a dyed in the wool splits man, vowing never to succumb to the pressures of other travellers advocating the tubelass tyres, I gave up last year when I bought a later model vehicle which came with 265x75x16 tyres.
I have now done 40,000km the last 12 months and have not had a
puncture out bush and only one slow leak in town which was the result of a nail picked up somewhere.
Splits were always easier to repair but I seemed to average a
puncture a month. They are also more difficult to balance and as others have said, getting quality, tubes these days is a problem.
Have recently completed 16,000km trek across a variety of terrain including some really rough tracks, and my Cooper STT's perfomed
well.
If you do decide to go to tubeless I would suggest to go 16inch as 15inch rims are also fading out.
I won't be going back to splits
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 22:43
Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 22:43
Hi Willem,
As I recollect, you needed a bit of convincing back then; but you have an open mind, and good to see its working for you too.
Flat tyres are a pain. Waste of time at about beer o'clock.
Cheers
Phil
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 23:49
Friday, Aug 12, 2005 at 23:49
I might be the odd one out here. I have never had a car with splits on it. So I don't know anything about them.
From what has been said above the main objection to tubless is the difficulty in breaking the bead if you need to. Solution...... buy a decent bead breaker. My wife can do it while I
cook tea.
As for splits being the go on work vehicles. Just about all the station vehicles around here (
Broken Hill) are now running tubless, the ones in the
mine are on splits.
Duncs
AnswerID:
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