National Parks and campertrailers

Don't you get the message, they really don't want you there!!!
If it was up to the raving Greenies you would not even be allowed to drive in.

Personally, I don't disagree with you.

Personally I avoid National Parks to stay in like the plague.

Nice places to visit during the day, but who the hell would want to stop in one.

too many bloody rules and regulations and we have enough of them in our daily lives anyway.

the only time I stop in a National Park is if there is no alternative available.

Good example of the choice is at Lawn Hill NP vs Adels Grove campsite.

Personally i would take Adels Grove anyday - and you can get your camper trailers in with bags of room to spare.

Others will possibly have different views but thats my two bobs worth

DennisN

I agree. I have a large Trak-Shak Camper which the tent part slides off the back rather than the side. I need about 30 feet to fit the camper in (from towbar to the back tent peg). It is not only national parks. Even caravan park sites are getting small. The more popular the place the maller the site. i.E THE GOLD COAST sites only big enough for a small van or tent. The great ocean road also has small sites in caravan parks and NP's. I have had a lot of good stays in NP's and they are certainly cheaper and contrary to someone else's reply there are less rules. I have 6 kids and have stayed in NP's where they can run around till they get sick of it and I have stopped in parks where kids can't through a tennis ball to one another.
One tip for caravan parks is to ask for a mobile home site as these are usually larger to accomodate buses.

Dock, whilst I sympathise with you I think you should remember that National Parks are underfunded and under resourced and such passive attempts to discourage people are just another survival technique. I live in NSW and have been an active bushwalker and climber for many years (yes, I'm one of those weirdos who actually prefers to walk than use my 4WD) and I find it really depressing to see many popular NPs being loved to death because the infrastructure just isn't there to support the ever increasing crowds and number of vehicles - Newnes in the Wollemi NP is a good example. I don't think whinging to NP will do anything, your letter will just be added to the already large pile of complaints. A more constructive thing to do would be get involved in your state's National Parks Association and support them to get more money from the Govt. to make NPs more user friendly and sustainable. I can't believe the tourism industry isn't more active in lobbying the government to take better care of NPs - they are an asset, not a liability. I'm probably about to start a riot but I really think that there are certain NPs where vehicles of any description have no right to be.

I think the message is simply - don't tow trailers into National Parks or any other off road destinations. They really are fine on sealed roads but it's irresponsible to take them elsewhere both from the damage they cause and the inconvenience to others when they become stuck.

Dock, we hear you loud and clear but its not just the NPs that have tight spaces, its also the caravan parks and its not fair is it! We found this problem all over Australia, in every single state. You probably know, we spent 2 years, non stop travelling (never once in a bed) and with a trailer, but that was a storage trailer not a camper, but much the same problem. The only solution is to disconnect trailer and take up two spots and even to lie on the ground some nights (on a thermarest or similar).

We have thought about settting up a new area on the site for "complaints to the authorities" but think the forum serves the same purpose. Be sure that your complaint here will be read by people in the know. So, everyone, continue to make your point be heard. I'm really hearing how powerful this forum is - as Con the Fruiterer says, "complain loudly!"

Well, there have certainly been a variety of opinions expressed over this topic but leaving personal opinions aside, the fact is that NP's have shown a trend towards individual campsites rather than a big open space. The good thing about this is lower impact and increased privacy. The bad thing is that it does not cater for a large percentage of the camping population.

Unfortunately, most of these sites seem to be very small and would not accomodate anything more than a small tent. That leaves us campertrailer, coaster bus and family tent owners out in the cold...not to mention caravan owners. Quite often the problem is not that the overall site it too small, simply that NP's insist on putting bollards across the middle of the site. If they gave it some thought, they could still use bollards to good effect (ie. to stop campers extending the boundaries of the site) by placing them around the boundaries of the site without disadvantaging particular groups of campers.

My last comment relates to those who feel that towing anything into a NP is detrimental to the environment. Have a look around...campertrailers and caravans are experiencing unprecedented popularity and yes, they are here to stay. NP's belong to the people of Australia; all Australians regardless of how they choose to travel. We all pay the same fees for park access and camping and we have equal right to visit our NP's as long as we respect them. All we are asking is that NP authorities realise that those people who camp in small tents are probably in the minority, so please give some more thought to how you plan the campgrounds.

:-) Melissa

Old Soldier, i also would like to know who this is directed at.

Anyone in particular???

Why does anyone have a problem with what Old Soldier has said? What's wrong with responsible 4wding? Nothing he says bothers me, in fact I couldn't agree more. There are plenty of hairy-chested 4wd websites where moronic members proudly display pics of exactly what Old Soldier describes. Imagine some of those places after another thousand or so hoons crash through them in the same manner - they won't be worth visiting (IF we're still permitted access!).

Damian,
Overlander's site is a good place to start (http://forums.overlander.com.au).

G’day again,

Firstly I would like to apologise to the members of this forum that some of my comments seem to have made this thread go awry.

However I stand firmly by my beliefs on responsible off-roading.

To Damien. Yes, my comments were inspired by a series of threads on another forum, but no, I was not taking a shot at them as you imply. I was merely using what I had seen there as an example of what I personally consider irresponsible off roading. It is not in my nature to conduct personal vendettas against individuals - either to their face, or "behind their back" as you infer.

You will note that I said what “I consider to be irresponsible”. My views may be totally wrong, but they are my views, and I have a right to express them in an open forum such as this.

I could have used other examples, I have seen plenty of them in my time. It’s just that these were fresh in my mind.

The comments I made that you picked up on were simply part of an overall post, and should have been read in context with the whole post. I did not mention the other forum’s website – nor did I mention anybody’s name. I don’t understand your problem I’m afraid.

No Damian I am not gutless, and even with me being almost on the wrong side of 60, it would take a better man than you to say that to my face.

I simply chose not to discuss my views on this other forum, as I had decided to leave there because of the amount of spurious and rubbish posts submitted by some of it’s “senior” [I use the term loosely] members.

I could not see the point in making comment there because the last few people who have left this particular forum after making [what I believed to be reasonable] comments about something which dissatisfied them, were subjected to much sarcastic derision by some of the self appointed 4WD legends who reside there.

Once again I apologise to the members of this forum if my post have upset you. However, I do not apologise for my beliefs on responsible four wheel driving.

Dennis

Ok, obviously this has got a little out of hand.
Naturally, everyone has a right to their own opinion & an equal right to express that opinion - no problem there.

Truckster, i think your comments to Murraysposers were a little harsh - he was simply expressing an opinion!

Old Soldier, i certainly did not mean to offend, but your comments, i thought, were a little strange, not so much in their content, but in their timing.
You had ample opportunity to express your views on the issue some 5 weeks ago, when details of the trip you are talking about took place - yet you decided to remain silent - why is that?

I certainly disagree with the comments you made. How anyone can make a judgement on exactly what went on, without actually being there is beyond me. From the reports that you have read & the pictures displayed, there is no evidence to suggest that inappropriate 4wding took place.
Why is driving through a mud hole so bad? are you basing your opinion on the photos or the written explanation - do you not think a littel "poetic licence" may have been used, a little exageration possibly. How do you know if it was "virgin ground" or not?
I think the example you have used was a mud hole that was not in a National Park, but in a logging area - hardly virgin ground now is it!
You say the soil erosion would be immense, i hardly think, looking at the photos, that erosion on that dead flat piece of land would be a major problem.

Driving through a creek - how fast is too fast? 10Kmh, 20, 30? Everyone will have a different interpretation of this.
Just because pictures have been taken of dirty vehicles, why is that childish? Have you stopped to think that the tracks may have been extraordinarily dusty & photos were taken to show just how dusty it was - what is wrong with that? A group of vehicles travelling at 10Kmh in convoy will get just as dusty as vehicles travelling at 60Kmh.

The group of people on this trip, did they throw beer cans out the window, did they leave toilet paper in the bush, did they leave rubbish at the campsite - i think not.
Don't you think that the above is far worse than driving through a creek, in your opinion, a little too fast? Don't you think a couple of dirty nappies will cause more harm to the environment than a dozen vehicles driving through a creek, or 3 vehicles driving through a mud hole?

BTW, it appears the people on the forum you are referring to have a lot of fun. It appears that when questions are asked, serious answers will be given.
There is also plenty of banter, plenty of jokes & plenty of laughter - what's wrong with that? Does a forum have to be serious all the time?
I think if you've got a sense of humor, most of it is quite amusing.
I think the "senior members" as you put it (i can only assume you classify these by the number of posts) are pretty good blokes who seem fairly smart & knowledgeable & don't mind having a fun time, by occasionally taking the piss out of each other, but at the same time helping out wherever possible - no crime there i wouldn't think.

Look, at the end of the day, you've got your opinion, i've got mine & they happen to differ. Without first hand knowledge & the actual facts as they happened, it's a little hard to take your opinion seriouly.

You will find more parks are making camper trailer areas. If not talk to the local advisory committee (NSW) - contact local NPWS for details. Bollards are to stop the idiots doing donuts. Tracks being gated (tracks required for weed or fire management use will be mainatained) is to stop rubbish dumping, car dumping, bush rock collection and also limited funding means that constant use of all tracks will be costly - all tracks are maintained yearly though the tracks used mostly will be kept open and majority of funds can be put to maintaining these. If all tracks were open then all would get a little bit of maintenance and the result would be a lot of rough tracks - 2WD's would complain. There are the odd few who visit NP's during the rain or near after and go thru the bog hole for the challenge - just adds to the maintenance costs.
Came back from Cape York - heaps of loo paper - dig the hole and burn it (not during High Fire Danger Period - I have put out enough fires of late) Why ? the pigs dig up the loo paper and rubbish people have buried.