Power Steering Pump/System Situation -

Submitted: Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 21:18
ThreadID: 26626 Views:11243 Replies:10 FollowUps:15
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Evening all

Whilst doing ‘something’ under the front end of my Troopy the other day, I noticed a watery type drip hanging ready to drop in the vicinity of the left hand side of the radiator.

A closer inspection under illumination revealed that the power steering pump had sprung a ‘weep’.

Bugger! must get that looked at ASAP.

Today, did just that. Rang the local Power Steering techo/expert who finished off my phone diagnostic description for me as if he was looking at it and/or driving it and adding without me saying so – it’s a diesel with the pump down the bottom isn’t it.

This apparently is the situation with 1HZ motors with the power steering pump situated under the fuel pump.on the left hand side as you look out of the windscreen due to the following:

(1) because of the location they become ‘superheated’ from the engine and insufficient airflow.

(2) this additional heat factor causes the internal drive shaft seals to harden quicker than normal.

(3) the harden seal/s start to wear a groove in the pump drive shaft

(4) Pump starts to leak around seal via this groove.

So I dropped it off for the necessary repairs basically straight away as it was only 2 mins down the road from me.

After he had had a look at it, I brought to his attention that the PSFluid Reservoir on top of the motor had also been weeping a tad out of the filler area over the last 10,000kms.

He said that the reservoir had valves and filters in it and the only time it comes out the top is if there is a ‘something or other’ pressure problem.

Then he has a look at the fluid and makes the remark that it is ‘pretty dark’ and most probably been there since it left the factory.

It is a 1997 last of the 75 series model with 80,000kms on the clock and serviced at 5000kms intervals religiously.

Guess what, not one mention of checking the PSFluid reservoir on any of the service invoices, plenty of other B U L L S H I T entries as to what was checked and serviced.

Now the fixit man tells me that this is not an uncommon problem with the PSPumps on diesels located in this position, and when asked, stated that you should get around a 100,000kms before it gets to this state again.

It needs a new shaft, seals and bearings, plus the Reservoir will be checked as well.

So! Have any others with 1HZ engines experienced this phenomenon, if so, at how many kilometres on the clock.

Regards

Ken Robinson
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:10

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:10
Struth Ken,
Now you've got me all primed up to worry about something else!!!!!
My GU has just clicked over 170,000klm in 5 years and I've done all of my own basic services......never once have I changed the PSfluid (very rarely even check it!!).
Thanks mate......another job to add to the list. At least I'm not changing my oil every 5000klm anymore, so I'm saving some time on the servicing scene.
Hope you can get this sorted without too much grief.
Cheers
Roachie
AnswerID: 131082

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:48

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:48
Evening Roachie.

I just posted a reply to Davoe below with a bit extra.

It seems the longevity of the PSPump (seals, shaft & bearins) depends on where it is situated in the engine bay - relative to heat disappation.

As I have no idea where your 4.2 PSPump is situated I can't comment.

However I intend to interrogate (Oops! meant ask) the fixit techo tomorrow about this 'fluid colour' thing and the 'valves filiters' in the reservoir to find out about fluid change/servicing etc etc.

I'll post the results if and when I get them.

Ken R
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Reply By: Billowaggi - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:10

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:10
Hi Ken It is an area that eventually requires some attention but usually closer to 200,000 klm as with most things it varies depending on the type of use your vehicle has had. The seal kit for the pump is about $70 shaft about the same, allow 2hrs labour plut fluid, job should be less than $350. This is a thing that also happens to the 4.5 petrol, also commodores and falcons.Dont know if changing the fluid would help, perhaps a power steer oil cooler like F250's and some older falcons.
Regards Ken.
AnswerID: 131083

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:53

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:53
Thanks for the input Billowaggi.

As I just mentioned in a couple of other replies it would seem that the Power Steering Pump (system) most probably will require 'attention' as you so admirably put it somewhere between the 100,000 - 200,000kms mark depending on the type of vehicle (petrol/diesel) and where the pump is located relevant to heat disappation.

Just have to keep an eye on things by adding it to your list of things to 'inspect' on a regular basis and take it from there.

Regards

Ken Robinson

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FollowupID: 385456

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:25

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:25
Ute at the last place I worked had a bit of a leak at 170k. If you look at your service book I dont think there is any mention of changing p/s fluid. It is just tranny fluid, check the dipstick and if it is the right colour - no worries. I usually get fluids like that changed when it is in the workshop for something else and i dont think it has been done for a couple of years (do basic servicing myself). As a 1997 it would have been a fair way off being the last of the 75s as the 79 was brought in around 2000 although i reckon i saw a 99 compliance plate on one
AnswerID: 131087

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:42

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 22:42
Davoe, Davoe, Davoe.

Mate! you have forgotten the 78 series. released about Feb/Mar 1978. (LOL).

I have spent the last hour or so surfing the net and found a few references to this Power Steering Situation in the 1HZ motor with the pump situated where it is.

It would seem that things start to show around the 100,000km mark , usually at the pump. I think I have detected mine (by sheer A R S E) at the startup stage.

There was nothing on the garage floor/ground etc to indicate anything.

It just gets worse from there on apparently, progressing to a full blown P I S S ING leak.

There are some products around that swell the seals and give you a few more Kms, however it doesn't fix the problem which inevitably requires new seals, shaft and bearings while you are at it.

Its like one of those silent deseases, that no one talks about and you don't know you have it until its too late.

Anyway C H I T happens and I'll keep an eye out for it in future.

Apparently, vehicles with the pump situated elsewhere have a lesser problem.

s always thanks for the input.

Ken Robinson

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FollowupID: 385452

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 23:06

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 23:06
Did you mean 1998? Was the 78 troopy around for that long? any way I have a tale about power steering pumps that prob wont help you but anyway
Went to do a full belt change on my 2h powered camper. Took the power steering belt off and fluid was as good as running out as in drip drip not drip............. drip. put the new one on gave it a good tighten and drip stopped - not so much as a minor weep- stopped!
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FollowupID: 385459

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 23:15

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 23:15
Oops! definitely meant 1998.

It was the model where they changed the wheels stds from 6 to 5 (DH's)

Don't know how long they lived for until the release of the 79.

Mate! I always love a fixit story like that when I hear one.

"just re tightened the belt and all was ok."

You have to have a winner every now and again.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 23:32

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 23:32
After the 75s (troopy and ute) the 78 was the designation given to the troopy and 79 to the ute both were 5 stud wheels and coil spring front ends. Neither comenced sale until october 99 (thought I saw a 99 ute) and continue sale today unchanged
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Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 00:40

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 00:40
Hell! just checked the net. and yep! 78 series released in 1999.

Just shows that I have no idea other than I tell the difference at a distance by the wheel stud pattern.

However after the discussions on here tonight I have a question or to for the Power Steering specialist tomorrow when I see him
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FollowupID: 385475

Reply By: Willb - Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 23:22

Tuesday, Sep 20, 2005 at 23:22
Hi, I have a Jackaroo (T/D) which has the P/S pump driven buy the motor. I have never changed the oil in 140k's, I have had a gander at the level and the colour and never given a second thought to replacing the oil, but I think I will this weekend.
Will
Always planning the next trip. VKS-737 mobile 1619

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AnswerID: 131106

Reply By: DMECH - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 00:10

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 00:10
HI i know of several ihz in our area that have done more than 300 thou and one with 520 thou on clock and no p/steering problems with pump.i think pump bolts directly into timing cover and any leaks would leak into engine .we did have one that used to squeel when turning turned out to be seal and shaft, but was actualy sucking air and engine oil thrue seal causing p/st. oil to darken and couse reservior to o/flow. somtimes o ring at pump inlet leaks this might be the problem with yours. certainly 80 ks is to early. unless speedo has been messed with.

regards dmech.
AnswerID: 131118

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 00:28

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 00:28
Evening DMech

I reckon you might have something there re the reservoir situation, however as I said originally the sucker was weeping from the pump and not into the timing cover, thats what drew my attention to it.

The Kms are Ok as I purchased it in 2000 from the Melb Auctions as an ex Vic Govt dept of NRE 3yr/30000km lease expiry job with 31,000kms on the clock.

I just use it as a camper for bush trips, so it hasn't even been trashed as a city full time driver.

At this stage I'm just putting it down to 'one of those things' to monitored in future.

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FollowupID: 385473

Reply By: age - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 07:52

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 07:52
Lucy

Have an 80 Series with 1HZ (90 model low Km's). Yep at about 115000Km power steer pump and box started to weep. Toyota could not pin point leak and told me to not worry about it. After about another 6 months got progressively worse so had it fixed. New seal kits etc, no grove on shaft with mine though. Noticed I have another rogue weep again now about 25000km after repair. Roll on the new 130 series, time for the old girl to go.
AnswerID: 131137

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 09:41

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 09:41
Thanks for the input Age.

Over the years of looking under the bonnets of every 75 series I had the chance to do so (Sticky-beaking to see what they had crammed in) it has become obvious that there are 'horses for courses' when it comes to vehicle maintenance . Including how clean it is kept under there.

Some have been so filthy, covered in mud, grease, dust etc etc with oil leaks making everything a nightmare of black slime, that you would never have a clue what was leaking from where.

These are the vehicles that most probably exceed the 100,000kms estimate of a leak starting, because no one has a clue about it and the service people just get their hands dirty by toipping up the reservoir.

I was in Birdsville last year and had the Troopy serviced at the Mobile and while there the mechanic comments on how clean my engine was.

I shrugged it off as being the usual and he showed me a trayback 75 that had just come in off a station. Best description - well used, only time bonnet lifted is when dropped off for service.

Very nasty indeed, however just goes to show how much mistreatment, flogging these vehicles will take and still keep going.

Point being, I have accepted these PSPumps can/may/do develop this scenario around 100,00kms mark and I'll just watch for it in future.
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FollowupID: 385504

Follow Up By: age - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 11:39

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 11:39
Lucy

I too keep my engine bay spotless (had a product sprayed on when rustproofed - Isotrol I think it was called).. Oil, grease and salt just wash straight off it. My engine bay looks like a new one. I put it down to a time thing with the seals. Between the 10 and 12 year old mark on my vehicle I had to replace lots of stuff. Pretty happy still though as I do lots of heavy towing and beach work and she still looks and goes ok - just returned from towing the boat to Fraser in some of the softest sand I have seen in 20 years of going there and with thetyres just right she is unstoppable even towing the 1.5t boat through the blow.
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FollowupID: 385519

Reply By: Member - John C (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 09:06

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 09:06
In the older pajero (85) had the pump go with a similar problem, oil running too hot. Know how you feel.
In the new model I now change the PS oil every couple of years - 50,000 to 60,000k.

Looking at the new pajero (well 96 model :0)), it has the steel feed pipe to the steering box from the PS pump running as a loop across the front of the vehicle, behind the front cross member(which is under the radiator) to assist in cooling the oil, before it gets to the steering box.

Can you make up a loop of pipe to put in the return line to cool the oil? Place it some where protected but in the air flow? Of course more pipe is increasing the chance of a stone hit and a leak.
AnswerID: 131149

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 09:47

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 09:47
Morning John

Yeah! bit of a bitch, however thats life in general mate. Just take the good with the bad.

I am pretty sure the PSLines to the Box are routed across that front cross member.

The Guy who is doing the service said the heat was mainly transferred from the engine as the pump is bolted direct to the engine and is driven direct off the timing area. i.e. not belt & pulley driven.

I am going to have a look at running an air venturi from the front (air scoop type) and see if I can direct it onto the pump as its right down the bottom.

Thanks for the input.

Regards

Ken Robinson
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FollowupID: 385506

Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 18:07

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 18:07
Ken,
My 80 Series had a small weep from the pump, and I just topping up the reservoir. In one way it was a slow change of fluid.

The tin can reservoir finally got a crack in it, so I checked the price from Toyota, $300. I said I only wanted the tin can, not the whole power steering system. Checked out the wreckers and picked one up from another Toyota and this had rubber feet on it so no more vibration cracking.

The Troopie has just clicked over 200,000 and no sign of any leaking.

Wayne
AnswerID: 131215

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 19:01

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 19:01
Evening Wayne

'slow fluid change' I like that (LOL)

I am going to post in a minute or two what the final outcome was to this situation, so keep an eye on it if your interested.

Thanks for the input , just nice to know I am not the 'only kid on the block' that this has happened to.

Regards

Ken Robinson

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FollowupID: 385584

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 18:34

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 18:34
Gday
This is fairly common....i bet you have a bullbar up front. The power steering cooler is the pipe you see under the front chassis crossmember. It doesnt take much to overheat the oil in the steering...i think it wouldnt be a problem elsewhere in the world, but here in oz, things can get hot in low range. The oil itself, once it reaches 60 c starts to oxidise (turn black) and the neoprene seals go hard.
Now, this is what i have found a few times in the past. There is a 30 cent o ring that seals the inlet pipe to the pump under that 10mm hex headed screw. Pulling this pipe off will empty out the oil, taking it to the bearing place will get you a new seal, power steering oil is thicker than ATF, so if u can get the PSF
Toyota sell a kit for $120 odd dollars to service the pump, The only place the pump can leak externally, other than the inlet, is the body o ring seal, best to clean the pump and watch it to find out where it is leaking first.
Lastly, the reservoir top is crimped to the bottom with an oring in there aswell, squeezing the crimps "slightly" will stop the leak. :-)
Andrew

AnswerID: 131219

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 19:05

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 19:05
Thanks for the input/respons/reply Andrew.

I am going to post the outcome of the visit to the 'power Steering Doctor' today' in the next few minutes.

I think I have a s h i t load of electrical conduits cabled tied to my cross member pipoes, which wouldn't be helping things.

So I'll have a look at that first thing.

Thanks again

Ken Robinson
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FollowupID: 385586

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 21:06

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 21:06
Maaaaate!

Had three electrical conduits and the winch power cable (conduited) cable tied to/around one of the Power Steering lines to the PSBox.

Not any more.

Also The new ARB BBar that I have just fitted is a really open design, 1000 times better than the TJM it replaced and I would say, oodles better than the OEM bar.

Has plenty of potential for air deflection devices to be experimented with underneath etc etc.

Thanks for the tip about the location of those lines/pipes.
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FollowupID: 385617

Reply By: Rock Crawler - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 22:52

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 22:52
I have replaced my p/steer oil with mobil 504 , works wonders
AnswerID: 131291

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 23:47

Wednesday, Sep 21, 2005 at 23:47
Good Evening Mate.

The fixit man replaced the fluid with some stuff he says is way over and above standard wise the stuff that the OEM supplies/uses.

So we shall see what happens.

I tell you what though, the two grooves that the hardened twin lipped seal wore in the drive shaft were very pronounced and noticeable, especially when compared against the new one.
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FollowupID: 385652

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