Big Desert Burning

Submitted: Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00
ThreadID: 2723 Views:1137 Replies:10 FollowUps:10
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What's your opinon. I'm a 'firey and would be out there fighting a fire when needed. Over the last few weeks one of the biggest fires ever has been burning in Victoria in the Big Desert Nat. Park. I think it was started by lightning. Lots of man-hours, equipment fuel, water and chemicals have been used to try to hold it back and stop its spread, and put it out. Now it's being 'mopped up'. [I hate 'blacking out'!]. ...... Anyway for discussion... Apart from one unattended house, little private property was destroyed. Before white fellas, this would have happened many times over thousands of years. The fire would have finally burnt out and the land recover as it does. Up north... the Kimberly etc I have seen fires like this raging along with little interest from locals. "It's okay, not near any property.... does the land good." one bloke told me.
I love the bush. Should we have left it and simply worked on protecting property? Hmmm
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Reply By: StephenF - Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00
I agree. Fire was always a natural part of the bush, the same as floods were a natural part of the river systems. Since we have "saved" the bush by trying to prevent fires and "controlled" the rivers with dams and weirs the country has suffered. I always smile when I hear a report that hundreds of hectares of bush have been "destroyed" by a fire. What has been destroyed? The plants grow back, the fauna returns, and in a few years the bush is better than ever. By all means save property, but leave the bush alone - it doesn't need our "help".

Stephen.
AnswerID: 10240

Reply By: Truckster - Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00
Being a fire fighter you should know that if you leave it, it will get bigger and more out of control and harder to protect property.. You need everything in your favor.. Things have changed since the land of MTness 100's of yrs ago.. simple as that.

We run it now as it should be to our benefit.

Places like peninsulars, where you cant get into once it all starts, you are going to lose life and property. Its not that way in Big Desert, but bush fires are bush fires...

Look at the infamous Sutherland Shire 90's fires, loss of life and all.. When the *hit hit the fan in Como, which hand burnt in 30+yrs, we were the 4th truck in there, but by then at least 10 houses were ASH... That was when we were trying for days to put it out at that stage.. and we lost.

If you leave it to go as it wishes, you are asking for problems. Been there played that game.. You cant control the weather, and cant always read it correctly..

My experience.
12 yrs RFS
Stn 24,
Sutherland Shire
Bush Fire Training Officer Grade 1
Crew Leader, BA, AF, VF, CS, AD etc etc etc..



YMMV
AnswerID: 10244

Reply By: bambi - Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00
Truckster,

an interesting point you have mentioned. Firstly a comparision between the terrain of the two areas would not be fair. The incident at Como had very steep terrain, horrendous winds, very high temperature coupled with very low humidity. I would think, from what I've seen of the Big Desert NP this would not be a valid comparision.

Secondly you have mentioned that Como had not been burnt in 30 years. Most likely true, would that be true of the mentioned NP? One thing that has been puzzling a few poeple that I know is why the RFS had not conducted a harard reduction in Como (or the surrounding areas) before?

Interesting that you mention those qualifications.......funny how the RFS personnel always feel compelled to do this. Just for the record, I agree with the original statement that there is not reson to get all hot and sweaty, property protection is formost, let the rest burn as long as it's not impacting on communities.

AnswerID: 10246

Follow Up By: Truckster - Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00
an interesting point you have mentioned. Firstly a comparision between the terrain of the two areas would not be fair. The incident at Como had very steep terrain, horrendous winds, very high temperature coupled with very low humidity. I would think, from what I've seen of the Big Desert NP this would not be a valid comparision.

It wouldnt matter where it was, if you have horrendous winds, very high temperature coupled with very low humidity you have problems. Ive seen grassfires on flat ground go faster than we could. by LOTS...

I know BD wouldnt be hilly like The bank of the Woronora River, but it was a point I was making.


Secondly you have mentioned that Como had not been burnt in 30 years. Most likely true, would that be true of the mentioned NP?

Does it matter? 2-3 yrs can build up some insane fuel levels under the right conditions.


One thing that has been puzzling a few poeple that I know is why the RFS had not conducted a harard reduction in Como (or the surrounding areas) before?
Ask the Greenies.

Interesting that you mention those qualifications.......funny how the RFS personnel always feel compelled to do this.
what you would rather I said this is my point of view but Im a moron with no idea?

Just for the record, I agree with the original statement that there is not reson to get all hot and sweaty, property protection is formost, let the rest burn as long as it's not impacting on communities.

Property protection is not always possible when you have a wild fire blasting through... No matter how many men and tankers you put infront of it. Burning off is not always possible either with NPWS, Scum Greenies(think of it if your house burnt to the ground and someone said oh well..) which stop things, but when the fire goes thru them trees burn anyway!!!

Flames 12 mtrs high or more, stand next to your house, and look up, then imagine 100's of degrees C (which in reality you cant nobody can) and things explode before the flames actually get there from radiated heat. trees, houses, cars, etc they just go boom....

if theres NO way that anything can burn from this fire, houses, schools buildings of any sort, then bleep it, let it burn if you wish...

Again YMMV..
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Reply By: Member - Trevor - Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00
From my information trees in the north of Australia burn with far less intensity compared to those in the southern part. So northern fires may be more frequent but not as wild.
Of more concern to me is we have been told to pack up and evacuate twice this summer. Finally I told the SES I would stay. You get conflicting advice from authorities. You get one mob telling you to get out while others are saying stay behind and put out the following spot fires. (when I did say I was staying I asked the cook to go and collect the photographs etc so she could take them with her. To my surprise when I went inside there was one suitcase, the original container number ones daughter’s wedding photographs came in. My photographs and paintings were still on the walls. Talk about a let down! You know when you are not needed anymore. I wonder which vehicle she would have taken?) Trev
AnswerID: 10256

Reply By: bambi - Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00
Well Gee Truckster,

seem to have hit a nerve there. You're saying that 30 years worth of fuel on the ground, with nil hazard reductions is the fault of greenies...........not likely.

As for the RFS personnel comment, it's true. In the dealing that I have had with them, they ALWAYS feel compelled to tell you how good they are. Actually, I'll qualify this. As with most fields of endevour, the ones that make the most noise usually display the least knowledge on the subject........just personal experience. The RFS do a wonderful job, and have a lot of wonderful firefighters.........and some fruitloops!
AnswerID: 10258

Follow Up By: Member - Steven - Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 at 01:00
unfortunatly truckster is right more and more country is beig left because the greenies are squeaking louder than most and the countryside is not allowed to be touched that is why so many 4x4 tracks are closing and not being reopened;cattlemen being kicked out of high country etc; you know about the squeaky wheel
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
seem to have hit a nerve there.
yea, just sick of whingers really.


You're saying that 30 years worth of fuel on the ground, with nil hazard reductions is the fault of greenies...........not likely.

So you tell me, is it Santas fault? The Tooth fairy?


As for the RFS personnel comment, it's true. In the dealing that I have had with them, they ALWAYS feel compelled to tell you how good they are.
like mechanics, Dr's, many professionals out there, and maybe even people who have been there done that, got the memory to prove it?


Actually, I'll qualify this. As with most fields of endevour, the ones that make the most noise usually display the least knowledge on the subject...
You know your bleep that shows...

just personal experience.
T shirt to prove it too ?

The RFS do a wonderful job, and have a lot of wonderful firefighters.........and some fruitloops
You have your own lot of firefighters?? I am impressed. Think before you dribble.
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Follow Up By: Bambi - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
Well,

once again you show truely amazing ignorance! You are truely in a field of your own here!

Leave Santa out of this! The poor old bugger has enough of his own troubles without being picked on by the like of you.

I could list my qualifications if you would like.........and have the time. Advanced Diploma in Fire Fighting Management, Risk Assessment and Management Diploma (Uni NSW), Sabre BA Advanced Manintenance just to name a few. Not to mention 20+ years in the Fire Service (a full time one).

And yes, I do have firefighter's I think of as my own. I spend a lot of time with them, train them, socialise with them, work with them as a team. When it comes to the nasty side of the job, I'm the one they look to for guidance.

Like I said......you're a 5 star wanker.

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Reply By: bambi - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
Heh Truckster,

yet another 5 star looser there you fool. It's the di#kheads like you that give the RFS, and sites like this bad publicity..........looser.

Oh, and seeing the cr*p you put on here and other websites, you would have the t-shirt for that, probably a whole warehouse full.
AnswerID: 10269

Follow Up By: Ray - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
What's your problem Bambi, you got a chip on ya shoulder or something.
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Follow Up By: Bambi - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
Na Ray,

no chip on the shoulder, just sick of people like the truckster getting on forums like this raming their opinions down people throats. Always seems that whenever he/she (can't be sure) makes a statement, it's true. If he/she has an opinion, it's right.

I just don't need to go around and advertise my qualifications or achievements, maybe I'm a tad more secure about them?

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Follow Up By: Ray - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
I know, I know, but we are all different and must be tolerant. Forums on the internet are just like the news media being full of rubbish and people pushing their own agenda. After a while it's very easy to seperate the wheat from the chaff
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Follow Up By: Bambi - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
Ray,

I agree there. However, you can only keep looking at the various forums that this dipstick frequents, and see his responses to various topics to note that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Look further down at the reply he's done for your comment.
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Reply By: Axel - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
Royce , definitly a hot topic, bushfires are and always will be a natural part of the Australian landscape cycle just as drought and flood , trying to save uninhabitated bush is an excersize in futility ,save people at all costs ,property if not at the risk of life , the bush will grow back ,allways has and allways will, 100,s of native plants require fire to germinate,,,, the blackboy that lives to hundreds of years being one that springs to mind..
AnswerID: 10270

Follow Up By: Ray - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
I agree, let the bush burn. We spend too much money trying to put out fires. Let the houses burn also, they can be rebuilt with the money saved.
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Reply By: Truckster - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
Ray crazily dribbled this followup

... Let the houses burn also, they can be rebuilt with the money saved.


Sorry, I must have dropped into the wrong planet... This one is insane....

Bet you wouldnt say that if it was your whole life history that went up in flames... Kids photos, etc...
AnswerID: 10276

Follow Up By: Ray - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
Iagree it would be insane if anyone lost their precious items just because of a fire. A fire may be strong but us humans are smart...get the idea
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Reply By: Mikell - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
From what I can see the CFA did the right thing at the Big Desert fire. Let it burn itself out but try to protect private property around the edge of the park. The main reason being is the Australian bush was meant to burn every few years and where would they find the water to put out a fire this size. The worst drought in memory is occuring at present and the water to fight this fire was just not available.

Also I beleive in areas like Melbournes Dandenongs etc not enough fuel reduction is being done during autumn\winter to help control bushfires. My mother lived in this area for many years and her property backed on to a council reserve and a national park. Both areas were overgrown with blackberries, weeds etc etc and any attempt on her behalf to get thye areas cleaned up were rebuffed. I dont know if this was because of lack of funds or because of the greenies but i suspect the greenies as any offer of us going in a slashing, spraying weeds etc were turned down.

In the end my mother sold her house as she couldnt take the stress of living there thru summer anymore. The last 2 years she was there there were fires very close to her house and she was afraid to leave home on days above 30 degrees.

To sum up I think the CFA do a fantastic job but are not backed up by the Government with enough funds etc to reduce fuel, buy equipment etc. Also the greenies MUST realise the bush must burn occasionally to reduce fuel build up as nature intended it too and the Government must start ignoring some of the greenies crackpot ideas before it is too late
AnswerID: 10290

Reply By: Member - Cruiser1 - Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Dec 29, 2002 at 01:00
Hey guys,

Did this really have to degenerate into a personal slanging match?
Is it not the case that both viewpoints might be relevant in certain circumstances, as some have pointed out?

Why attack each other PERSONALLY? Would it not be simpler to listen and try to understand the opposing view?

Can we not use the forum to inform the debate, adding knowledge, experience, rationale and ideas, rather than personal attacks?

Can we not question or challenge someone's argument rather than abusing them?

Who really cares about so-called qualifications if the supposedly 'qualified' can't string an argument together?

Why can't we acknowledge that both 4-wheelers AND greenies might have similar aims but just use different routes of getting there?

Are all 'greenies' necessarily the enemy?

Isn't it true that many problems in the environment are created by 4-Wheel Drivers, creating bad impressions and hysterical demands for track closures, etc?

Who benefits from this kind of silly internet version of the 'My willie is bigger than yours' game? :)
AnswerID: 10297

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