Towing with a 90 series Prado V6 petrol manual

Auto or manual and how much do you tow?

Sky Pilot

Did you read the question? I thought it was quite clear.

Sky Pilot

Sorry it was your question. Please ignore my last post . doh

Sorry, I wrote the question. I am glad you thought it was clear;-)

Yep, it works out at 6% if I measure the odometer against the RTA 5km accurate distance signs. These tyres are on their last legs anyway, and as I have read some pretty disturbing stuff that suggests that my tyres are now illegal - have been for 7 years I'd say - I will purchase the smaller tyres next time. I just wonder what my fuel economy will be in the petrol V6 which obviously has to be worked hard to tow 1.5 tonnes. I currently get about 13.5L/100km on a trip. I am expecting this will blow right out to something like 18L/100km - given I can't use 5th gear and it certainly won't hold 4th up long hills - even the loaded up non towing vehicle struggles with that. Oh well, it is only going to be for a year, as I will most likely be puchasing a new diesel at the start of 2007 when the later model diesels come out in the Toyota and hopefully Nissan. I was initially thinking about a Discovery3, but from what is happening with the dealer network in outback oz, that would probably not be a wise move.

I don't think that you should change the vehicle just on the basis of towing. The V6 will pull it fine, you'll just need to work it a bit more.

The 275's were actually legal, as they are only 15mm greater diameter than the 265/70 that came standard on the other models - nothing to worry about there.

The good replacement size for you would be either 265/70R16 or 245/75R16. The latter is actually a tougher tyre - having a load index of 120 which is about the same as the old 10ply. These two sizes are the same diameter and fit nicely on the 7 inch wide rims that I'm guessing you are now running.

Cheers
phil

And I guess if you wanted to go back to the 6 inch wide RV rims, the 225/75R16 are a common replacement, and you'll have no problems as far as gearing goes. You're just losing a bit of clearance.

Cheers
phil

Phil, are you sure of the legality of 265/75/16s? I have looked up several tyre websites and they show an increase in diameter of roughly 25 to 28mm over the 265/70/16. Is the 265/70/16 in say a BFG AT as tough as the 75 section one? When I got the ATs, you couldn't get anything in that size, so I went for the 75s - I also got a really good buy as someone had ordered the full set of 5, then reneged on them leaving the dealer with them to get rid of. To tell the truth, I don't know how wide the alloy wheels are. It was 7 years ago I bought them. I thought they were 7.5", but am unsure. I know they JUST stuck out past the guards, so I put on some fibreglass flares to keep the law happy.

In your first post, you stated you had 275s, which I took to be 275/70R16, which are just 15mm over standard.

Re the diameter legality thing. This is a grey area and as far as I know, nobody has ever got into trouble for fitting 265/75R16 to a Prado 90series. If you check the Prado email groups, many people run this size because the tyres are stronger, the extra diameter is good, and they are cheaper. The law still varies from state to state, but from January 2005, the ADR (27) that describes the 15mm rule was scrapped, and replaced by another (ADR 40) that makes no mention of it. If you want to absoute, the tyres will become perfectly legal when half worn!!! Its a crazy situation thats not worth worrying about.

The BFG in 265/70 are not quite as strong as the 265/75 as indicated by their load index of 115 vs 119. But practically speaking it will make no noticeable difference. This is because the BFG in 265/70 are one of the few tyres to have an LT construction in that size.

Whoops, you're right, I did write down 275 instead of 265. My mistake, they are definitely 265/75/16. It is interesting what you say about ADR40 not mentioning the diameter thing because when I was researching tyre diameters on the internet, it struck me that some of these tyres, have more or less tread than others and therefore have a different diameter even though they are the same size. Then there is the fact you stated that when tyres with lots of tread are worn, their diameter can change from illegal to legal or vice versa too. At best, it is an airy fairy regulation and perhaps that is why it has disappeared. I am actually thinking of MTs for the replacement tyres and they are supposedly 10mm less in diameter than the ATs at the same size. I have a feeling that my ATs have a 120 load rating, but that is neither here nor there, as the load ratings of these tyres is far more than the placarded tyre rating.

I owned two Prados before getting the 79series. I ran BFG MTs on a TD Prado 245/75R16 for a while and quite liked them - sure they can get a bit noisy but are a good strong tyre and the diameter won't upset your gearing as much as what you've got on.

I replaced them with a set of Goodyear MTR 265/75, and kept the same tyres on my 79series. They are my favourites at the moment.

Cheers
Phil

Thats good to know Paul. We will only be two up, so would be saving the a fair bit of weight there. I've also removed the 3rd row of seats so have more room for luggage there as well. Ours is a 98 with currently only about 66,000 km on it. It is a manual. Was your's manual or auto?

We did a 20,000 km trip in an 83 Rangie in 1996 and it handled rough and especially corrugated roads much better than the Prado does. It gets the dash rattling like crazy on just slightly rough gravel. I actually have never taken it into serious rough contry because of this. I did read somewhere recently that the dash was only bolted to the firewall in two places and this was a known problem - I think they increased the number of bolting locations in later models. Any idea of fuel economy towing that load Paul?

Ours was an Auto and we finally got Toyota to agree to pulling the dash off and fixing the dash problem. At times we thought it was going to land in our laps..
After the first week of keeping note of the fuel consumtion we lost interest and decided to just keep going and if the funds ran out we would find work - thank christ that didnt happen!!

Another area of confusion. Speed ratings written on the tyre placard are meaningless in many states. This issue arose about 15 years ago, and some laws were changed to resolve it. You need to check the laws in your own state.

The following info is about 3 years old and is lifted from the The Toyo website tech bulletins

Cheers
Phil

New South Wales: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 15mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is N (140 kph).
Victoria: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is equivalent to the highest state speed limit, which is 110kph or K.
Queensland: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 26mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is N (140 kph).
South Australia: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 15mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is S (180 kph) for new tyres fitted to passenger cars or 140 kph (N) for retreads. Minimum speed rating for four wheel drives is 130 kph (M).
West Australia: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 15mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is S (180 kph) for new tyres fitted to passenger cars (or the vehicle's top speed if lower than 180kph), or 140 kph (N) for retreads. Minimum speed rating for four wheel drives is N or 140 kph.
Tasmania: No specific ruling in maximum or minimum overall diameters of alternative wheels & tyres, Except that both must comply with Australian Tyre & Rim Association standards. The speed rating must be equal to or better than the vehicle's top speed.
Australian Capital Territory: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 26mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is S (180 kph) for new tyres fitted to passenger cars or 140 kph (N) for retreads. Minimum speed rating for four wheel drives is 140 kph (N).
Northern Territory: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is that stated on the tyre placard.

BTW, the ADRs I refer to are those that come out of Canberra. I had them email the info to me earlier this year.

Each state still modifies the ADRs to suit themselves. Where did you get your info?

My information was from the internet looking up RTA (NSW rules) - or so I thought.

Thats what I thought - different states have different rules which is crazy. So you just have to abide by the NSW rules. Anyway, sounds like muddies are fine as the minimum speed rating is "N".

Cheers
Phil

Seems crazy doesn't it. They are so pedantic about the +/- 15mm diameter rule and the load rating, but it is alright to come back to an N rated tyre when your tyre placard says you should have an S rating. That is what is so bloody frustrating. In my youth, I couldn't give a stuff if something was illegal or not. Now I am talking big buck 4WD towing $40,000 worth of trailer and equipment and I want/need to make it totally legal as I couldn't take the hit if my insurance company abandoned me, not to mention if the 3rd party personal from your rego was denied you as well. Now you find that the actual rules are very airy fairy and open to interpretation. As I also want a slight suspension lift and the installation of air bags in the back coils, I think before I have all this finalised, I will pay for an automotive engineer to actually certify that it is legal for rego.

Based on the +/-15mm tyre diameter alone, I would think that there are thousands of 4WDs in Australia that could have insurance problems if they every needed to make a big claim.

I really think that you're overstating the problem and are trying to deal with issues that don't exist. No one has ever got pinged for any of the issues you've raised.

I don't know Phil. I know of one definite case where someone had an insurance claim in a repairers for fixing and an AAMI assessor came around during the repair to inspect the vehicle for anything on it that was not legal or stated on the policy. Their intent was that they would not pay the claim if they found anything. The repairer was a mate of the guy whose car it was and let him know what had happened. I know this to be true. I am also insured with AAMI and I want to make 100% sure that they don't drop me. The problem is that all is well while nothing happens. They are happy to take your premium and you are happy and secure thinking you are fully insured. Then, big claim and bingo, they inspect the vehicle with a fine toothed comb. These guys are experts and know what to look for. It is far more sinister than this. If your car does not meet ADRs and you are involved in an accident that causes harm to a person, you are illegally registered. Your 3rd party personal insurance is invalid and you get to fight out the costs in court. An illegally registered car also exempts your insurance company from paying out on any claim.

Another incident happened to a mate of mine. He was in a prang that wrote off his car and another. They assessed that one of his tyres had just less than the legal tread depty. The rest is history. He paid for the other car and caught the bus himself until he could save up and buy another 2nd hand car.

Is it really worth the risk? You judge.