redarc owners required

Sorry Peter, must tend to disagree with you on the CB and Reverse light/s idea.....I have them (and all other accessories) hooked up to 2nd battery. We often arrive at camp and have the ignition switched off, but want to have the UHF left on (sometimes all night!!!) to hear any other members of our group arrive and seeking directions....Pesty is a great one for this; usually hits camp about midnight and can't find his way in and we have to talk him through gates etc...hahahaha
Likewise, I have my 2 reverse/work-lights set-up with a ON-ON switch. It normally sits in a position that turns it on when I hit reverse gear, but flick it to the other position and they'll turn on even if motor is off etc. This is great for setting up camper trailer after dark etc.
Just my opinion and not trying to say you're wrong as such.....horses for courses, eh?
Cheers
Roachie

Afternoon mate.

You have got me intrigued here.

What exactly do you mean by a ceramic fuse. Not sure on this one, even though I may know it by another description/name etc.

Regards

Ken Robinson

Ummm no idea what you mexicans call them..........we call them ceramic fuses in SA too. The body is made out of cermic and the fuse wire is on the outside. My old fridge fuse was like this.

I know this is stating the obvious but - are you high tech gentlemen talking about those old residential house type fuse blocks that you could insert a 100mmx2 cable into and using fencing fire as the 'fuse' for all occassions.

They are the only ceramic type fuse holder/block that I can think of.

If not , how about sending a cum dunt like me a pic or two of what you are talking about.

Thats almost them Loose, IMHO HRC Fuses are better

http://www.camec.com.au/marine-30%2012%20volt.htm

This link will give you a decent look at a "Ceramic fuse"

http://www.rpc.com.au/products/fuses/breakers.html

- -> H R C Ceramic fuse

The 4th type of fuse down the page, a round ceramic fuse with everything internal, and can be safely mounted direct to (+) battery post for extra protection.

As Bonz (vic) has said, they are the best protection, and with nil voltage loss :-)

(from memory they cost about $8 each, they are recommended and supplied as an integral part of the fridge wiring system with a Reefer fridge)

Thank God for a fellow Sandgroper.

Mainey, you are the only one so far that has given a sane and lucid answer.

The Honorable member for Terang who allegedly works for some energy producing company and professes to know everything and anything about electricity, had the temerity to send me to a site which didn't even mention ceramic fuses.

At least your 'smokin-joe' site shed the light on the subject.

And

If the honorable member for Terang had said they are are smaller version of the Pole Fuses his poxing power company use, I would have known straight away what every one was on about.

Whatever you do, don't come to Victoria because they treat you like mushrooms here.

You know - keep you in the dark and feed you on a regular diet of bull C H I T.

(ROFLMAO) I had better stop now while I am ahead.

Thanks again for clearing it up.

Maybe the Honorable member for Terang would like to redeem himself by advising where in melbourne one might source these HRC cootas.

Take another look at that site Mr Lucy, I am sure of you search that page for the word "ceramic" you'll come upon an "in-line" version that is most automotive worthy, even in a Troppy. In Fact, these in-line fuses are safe too as they enclose the fuse operation, like a HRC fuse does.

In addition I may add that HRC stands for High Rupture Capacity, which is a valuable feature for electrical applications prone to high inrush currents (like Warn winches blowing fusible links) and the like (e.g. powering EVERY light on the dashboard just because someone mentioned the term "water")

That said I can source some smikon 400amp HRC units that would looke excellent on the bullbar of your Troopy to power the lights. See me later on for these hahaha

the fuses that Mainey is refering are purpose designed for 240volts. They are insulated for 240v....and that is why reefer use them on their 240v products....(but could be used on 12v), although one would need to source them thru wholesale electrical suppliers. These are not the mainstream type fuse for general automotive use.

The ceramic fuses I think we are refering to is similar ...no same shape as 5AG glass type fuses except that they are ceramic...ie you can not see the rupture wire. These amic fusesare 4th clockwise from top and are known as 3AG Type...the smaller one is M205

link didnt work...
the ceramic fuses are 4th...ooops 3rd clockwise from top
http://www.jaycar.com.au/images_uploaded/fuseprmr.pdf

Hey Nudie, Happy Chrissy mate

g'day geoff
merry xmas to you all and have a great 2006

Have u seen post 29138 Nudie? You are mentioned there heheheheh

The original “ceramic fuse” comment was mentioned in my post: "My fridge runs of a separate ceramic fuse via the solar regulator off the Aux battery system" and it's actually the same CERAMIC FUSE as pictured in the link I have posted above, 4th down & named: HRC Fuse Holder and Fuses

Quote direct from the website:
In general terms, you can use any appropriately rated fuse or circuit breaker in your battery type system. HOWEVER, for the large cables that connect onto the BATTERY, you should use a sealed type of fuse (usually HRC type) and NOT a circuit breaker which could generate sparks if it tripped.

Nudie, don't post an inane message like -> "the fuses that Mainey is refering are purpose designed for 240volts, they are insulated for 240v, and that is why Reefer use them on their 240v products"
Yes, all Reefer Premier Fridge’s are supplied with a HRC ceramic fuse, however Nudie the HRC fuse is connected direct to the 12v Aux battery, and yes only 12 volts ever goes through the HRC fuse, never 240v, because it's only a 12v battery and not a 240v battery :-(

Because Nudie, as you really should know & you obviously don't
HRC ceramic fuses are NOT purpose designed for a particular voltage at all
it's AMPS they are purpose designed for ... NOT voltage!!


Lets keep smiling and without fights this year, stick to the facts please :-)

I don't mind being corrected, but do it with the truth & facts that you can prove when asked to, and not bullshet & innuendo.

May I ask as to where you get those 240V batteries you mentioned Mainey

Seeing as how you asked Lucy, I do have a line on 240v 96 a-H batteries as well as 120v 90a-H batteries, and these are protected by 60A HRC fuses. I can get you some if you like? Also have a couple of 12v 8 a-H batteries with spade connectors on my desk at work excellent for those small fluoro lights we all have, just say the word.

And Mainey, Nudie knows as do you that the new year hasnt started hence your comments about fights this year are either early, (but good) or opportune but short lived. your choice.

"Because Nudie, as you really should know & you obviously don't
HRC ceramic fuses are NOT purpose designed for a particular voltage at all it's AMPS they are purpose designed for ... NOT voltage!!" CRAP
12 volt or even 24v or 120 volt rated anything and in this case fuses can not be used in 240v ac or dc situations!!! its ILLEGAL

reason? a low voltage rated anything IS NOT insulated to 240v requirements!!!

HRC fuses are designed for a designated voltage!!!!
forget current draw....yes one may be able to a 240 v rated fuse for 12v but not the otherway round...ITS ILLEGAL Mainey and down right dangerous!!!!

no stick to accounting or business management or whatever it is, and leave the nuts and bolts stuff to us......

'Lucy' you have asked-> May I ask as to where you get those 240V batteries you mentioned Mainey" ....
Ummm, I posted "it's only a 12v battery and NOT a 240v battery" I have read the post a few times to make sure I have not misunderstood your post, but I definitely said they are 12v batteries and NOT 240v batteries, take Bonz up on his offer, as I can't assist you with 240v batteries!

Yep Bonz, I would be happy without a argument from him to just one post, wether it’s "this week" or “next year”, but he just has to have the last word :-(

Every-one with any electrical experience at all, and that would include a qualified fridge mechanic, should have at least some basic electrical knowledge, and therefore would definitely know the “HRC Ceramic Fuses” I mentioned originally, and linked to, are for protection against excessive AMPS … and NOT voltage.

The fact is, he made an error and posted totally incorrect information

His excuse-> “HRC fuses are designed for a designated voltage, forget current draw, yes one may be able to a 240v rated fuse for 12v but not the otherway round, its ILLEGAL Mainey and down right dangerous”

I do agree, no-one in their right mind would use any 12v fuse of any description in a 240v system


B U T... remember, we are not talking about a 240v system here !!

We are talking about a 12 volt battery system
and it’s NOT dangerous and NOT illegal either!!

He's only twisting the facts to suit himself & to save face

We are using a HRC fuse to eliminate extreme AMPS as they are designed to do!!

Question: If the HRC fuses were specifically designed for 240v how come they work perfectly and are also recommended for use with 12v batteries ??

How can it be 'illegal' to use a HRC ceramic fuse, that’s rated as suitable for up to 240v, to stop excessive Amps in a 12v system, it’s NOT, it's just total rubbish, his misinformation is dangerous, not the HRC fuse.

For the facts read the Link I posted ->
http://www.rpc.com.au/products/fuses/breakers.html

The link actually proves he is wrong :-)
(but as usual he’ll say they’re wrong ?)

(I really hope the fish are biting better than him in Augusta, L0L)

mainey...i quote what you said..."HRC ceramic fuses are NOT purpose designed for a particular voltage at all
it's AMPS they are purpose designed for ... NOT voltage!!"
did you or did you not post this?
i beg your pardon?
i repeat...your an idiot!...and twist your statements to make yourself
credible...read your own words in your last post...where in you say "I do agree, no-one in their right mind would use any 12v fuse of any description in a 240v system" double dutch or trying to dodge?

so did you or did you not say this...

fuses are not purpose designed eh?...geezes mainey woulkd love to see you around 20000v stuff.......poooof...... too bad hahahaha

It is fair to say 5that one cannot divorce the voltage and current relationship, especially with HRC fuses. The HRC bit is designed to deal with an amount of high current energy (or wpower) a number of times before rupturing whilst still rupturing quickly for very high currents. The wpower is a function of the current AND the voltage, similar to wattage which is volts x amps, so the fuse is designed to withstand an amount of energy at 240v, then it will withstand more than that at 12v.

That said, if you dead short it it will blow, just not with the reliability it will blow at at 240v.

Lucy, you should be going back to reading school.

Nn, this is my post
"Because Nudie, as you really should know & you obviously don't, HRC ceramic fuses are NOT purpose designed for a particular voltage at all - it's AMPS they're purpose designed for, NOT voltage"

Yes, Nn, you buy a fuse to control a definitive number of AMPS
(not voltage, that's regulated by the vehicle Voltage Regulator)
You ask the electrical or 4WD guy to sell you a fuse to control (example only, 15Amp or 50Amp) before it 'breaks' to stop the current moving further through the lead and causing damage to your electronics, wether that fuse is rated at 24v or 240v is not relevant - IF, you use it on 12 volts!

The excessively high Amperage, not a relatively constant voltage, will break the fusible link with-in the fuse!

Remember, we are talking about a HRC Ceramic FUSE, not a cheap blade fuse & not the local street lights!

You have a 12v battery, so all the electrical lead has to carry is about 12v (12.5v to 14.8v) maximum, a lead as small as 2.5mm sq or as large as 32mm sq, it makes no difference to the 12 Volts @ minimal Amps, (5 amp?) as it will pass without problems, however attempt to stick 50 Amps in a 2mm sq lead and see what happens, it gets dam hot, will it burn, yes probably, I really don’t know as I’ve never seen anyone stupid enough to attempt it, yet!

BUT – a battery cable has to have a large range of AMPS running through the cable at different times, and when it 'shorts' out it may be hundreds of Amps and this can create major damage, and even when you start the fridge compressor the Amps in the cable will raise against the resistance, so you use a “fuse” that allows the ‘reasonable’ number of Amps to pass through the fuse during "normal" use, but NOT to allow the massive number of Amps through, as when the lead shorts, as it would destroy the fridge electronics & the radio etc.

Nn, yes, “no-one in their right mind would buy and use any 12v fuse of any description in a 240v system”
what part of that don’t you understand :-(
What it means is no-one would use a car fuse in their washing machine at home.

Bonz

It has finally become all too much for you.

Man! I left this diatribe hours ago after you told me you have a swag of 240V & 120V batteries under you bed or somewhere else all secret like.

I knew then that I was way over my depth in this conversation and went of in search of Roachie for a tad of robust dialogue.

I think you might have your fuses crossed due to the Nudie - Mainey 'I've got a bigger one than you thing.

Me - I have a small one when it comes to electrical things and always consult my advisor/guru in Terang.

H R C Ceramic fuse

will give you nil voltage drop

and come in a fancy case if suitable
or
bolt cable direct to the tail on each end of the fuse

Talk to me Lucy I can provide

Ah! at last.

Thank you for that.

However, I respectfully suggest that maybe 400amp might be a tad high even for my penchant of blowing fusible links when winching.

Will contact you via the landline soonest.

mainey...get out of here with your 240volt stuff!...i thought you were away fishing......we were having fun till you arrived back in town

Hey Nn,
Am down in Margaret River, in the South West of West Australia, have you ever been here?? It's WA's prime wine growing region and with decent competition surf breaks as well. Unfortunately the salmon are not running here so I'm going over to Augusta for a fish there, then back to Dunsborough for New Years Eve.

You would know a 20 Amp HRC Ceramic fuse can be safely used in all 12v applications (requiring a 20 Amp fuse of course)
I use 45A fuse connected direct to the (+) battery post for my 70Ltr Reefer fridge, they work just so efficiently, and yes the HRC fuse does too (L0L)

HRC Ceramic fuses are able to be used in both 12v and also 240v equipment, and as you would know they generate nil voltage drop!

wasting your time fishing those overpopulated south West beaches Mainy. To get a good catch you need to be East of Esperance. Only thing those SW beaches have going for them is the surfer girls

Davoe,
in my case
the surfer girl's Mum's L0L

Mike
As you’re a Licensed Electrical Contractor, can you please explain why it's 'ILLEGAL' to use a "HRC ceramic fuse" with a 12v battery system?
Assuming the Amperage is realistic, by that I mean, using a 45 Amp HRC fuse to replace a 45 Amp blade or glass fuse etc.

Do they make, or have you seen a ‘12 Volt’ HRC ceramic fuse?
as my HRC ceramic fuse is rated at "20kA/440V ac" and "45 Amp 0K 45"

So it's designed for a ‘440 Volt ac’ fridge (Nah, I don’t believe it)
not 240v or 24v or 12v fridge!

And yes, with a capacity of… 45 Amps
This is the specific reason it’s recommended and safely used :-)

The energy in an arc is based on the current and available voltage - if the fuse is rated at 20kA/440V then you can use it at this or any LOWER rating.

The Rupturing Capacity rating for DC is always lower than AC because with AC the voltage goes to zero every 100th second, cooling down the arc.

Codan sell $4000 Transceivers that can draw 30 amp peaks at 12 volts and they recommended 440volt HRC fuses.

I don't know of anyone making 12 volt HRC fuses, since 440volt HRC fuses are mass-produced and cheap.

The electrics (except the Starter Motor !) in all cars are protected by small Fusible Links rated up to 100 amps before the smaller fuses - if you want to keep it cheap and simple, use Fusible Links.

Do NOT use small DC Circuit Breakers as your only short-circuit protection for car batteries - the batteries $1500 amp short-circuit current capability will weld them shut.

Mike

A fuse with a rated CARRYING current of 45 amps will not fuse instantly at 45.1 amp.

Fuses are simply bits of wire that get hot and melt - it may get hot enough at 90 amps after 5 minutes or after 10 seconds at 180 amps - you need to check the fuse manufacturers ratings.

If the connection to the fuse has lost tension or is corroded there will be faster heating - this is usually the cause of unwanted fuse blowing (or cheap and nasty fuses ! ).

Hi Mike DiD, while I agree with most of what you have posted, sorry to contradict you but it is very unlikely that a circuit breaker will fuse closed. It is theoretically possible and may rarely occur but in most cases off dead shorts on batteries where a circuit breaker is used for protection, the circuit breaker will do it’s job and go open circuit.

The reason is that the circuit breaker will rarely get anywhere near the 1500 amps because the cable is just not heavy enough to carry anywhere near that sort of a load.

Furthermore as relays are made of the same types of materials as used in circuit breakers, they would be as susceptible to the same problem.

I might also add that if there is to be a problem with fusing, it is more likely to occur in a relay as the contact will ware from opening and closing all the time while most circuit breakers very rarely go open circuit if at all.

We have been supplying and fitting dual battery system protected by circuit breakers, for more than 18 years now and of the thousands out there, we have never had one come back because of fusing or overloading.

Now having said the above, we only use Cole Hersee circuit breakers which are among the best available.

Cheers

Mike, if it was a case of Russian Roulette then why do they use circuit breakers in all new ac wiring and when a circuit breaker is used, the circuit current is allowed to be high than if you used fuse wire of the same current rating.

And remember the debate is about fusing contacts not arcing.

Cheers