P Platers What goes wrong

I think you are just dribbling after a bad day on the road.

10k’s over License gone for 2 years get real.
The legal system is struggling enough as it is without needing to deal with stupid rules like that.

It’s well Known soon as you get in a car by-yourself you will pick up your own stile, believe it or not if most of the population resat there licence they would fail. I sure know I would, when sat my truck license 4years after I got my Car license it amazed me at how much you forget. 10to 2 on the steering wheel I can’t remember the last time I held it like that 70% of the time I have 0ne hand on the wheel.

Question how did you drive when you first got your licence? Much the same I would think, everyone has done it a little and you grow out of it, part of being young and it’s how you learn, some people are morons on the road and don’t learn and that a shame.

Fines and pentiles aren’t the answer, teaching how to drive and handle are car in a Varity of conditions is, Including at hight speed is.

I just don't believe that tuffer fines make any difference. 10ks over loose your license??? how many of us be in trouble???

Reiner

Axle, the P-platers you describe were probably taught by their parents, and consequently picked up their bad driving habits.

Rather than blame the individual, let's look at a system that is relaltively unchanged and deficient (in the 28 years I've been driving at least):

1. All drivers should be taught under an accredited, PROFESSIONAL organisation, similar to motorcyclists;

2. Recurrent testing of all licence holders (competency based).

This would go a long way towards making the roads safer, and our drivers (all of them, not just P-platers) more proficient drivers.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with recurrent testing. I get checked at least 5 times a year for my job. If I'm deficient in any area I get instructor input to get me up to standard. Overall it's a positive experience.

We had opposition to recurrent testing in my industry, too. Generally the most vociferous individuals were those who would be questionable under check anyway...

After all, a drivers licence is a privelege, not a right - is it not?

It's called testosterone and it negates common sense, consequence of actions and to a greater extent masks their ignorance. I think back to the risks that I took as an 18 year old new to the roads. Should not be here writing this now! I don't think a young male thinks about consequences of his actions until about the age of 24 or so. Perhaps this should be the minimum driving age? Certainly, the older one gets the more one thinks things through more. Now, I'm in a job where I cut the bodies out from the wrecks and I still see the stupid actions and mistakes that have never been instilled into these young drivers, happening as usual. Driver education is one step, but you cannot legislate brains.

Hmmmmm

It is FREEDOM to do with what you want. After years of being driven around by your parents suddenly you have the power of mobility!!!

Though where I grew up there was no such thing as a P PLate I can remember living dangerously with my crappy cars. Some near misses and a number of crashes in my lifetime and somehow I escaped reasonably unscathed.

Life is an evolution and we will evolve into having draconian laws before being able to get a drivers licence.

A licence is a right NOT a priviledge because to own a car is a right not a priviledge.

Better still...abolish all licences

There are just as many grown up peanut heads on the road as P Platers

Sorry, disagree Willem. You might have the right to own a motor vehicle, but that doesn't automatically give you the right to operate it. Not legally, at least.

Show me in the Australian Constitution where it states that we have the [i]right[/i] to a drivers licence.

Nope. Not there. Gidday ;)

In the "good ole days" you only had to prove you were safe in what you were doing. Loosly interpreted that meant you could cruise Vic highways at a ton (160ks for those that weren't around then, and whilst in new vehicles then they were on reflection just heaps of crap. Single freeways, slow old trucks, heaps of passing and best judgement and, if lucky, you survived. My point you say...well, lets get some perspective on where we have come from and where we are at today..chalk and cheese I say! Perhaps the only thing we have lost is tolerance??

I think part of it is the "P" plate itself, it has a bit of a stigma to it so some of these drivers try to prove that they are "skilled" drivers in spite of the 'P" plate and go out of their way to show their car control with burnouts, high speeds and just idiotic risks that I am sure they think the rest of us are actualy impressed with.

I think a better system is needed, I am not sure what tho, I remember when they tried reducing bikes to 250cc for learners, and the Japanese made 250's that would do over 200kph, so my initial thought of reducing horsepower available to P platers probably wouldn't do any good.

Until something is done I will just keep shaking my head and hope I don't see them wrapped around a tree somehwere or worse, wrap me and my family around a tree.

The trouble with our licencing system is that most kids are taught how to get a licence rather than how to drive.

The first time most of them get to control a vehicle in an emergency situation is when their lives depend on it.

There needs to be more emphasis put on teaching them how to drive. To have sympathy for and understand the dynamics of the vehicle they are driving and to have sympathy for other road users.

Most of us have an inbuilt level of risk that we are prepared to expose ourselves to on the road and in everyday living. If the car makers improve their vehicle safety and add all those electronic gizmos then we, the drivers think well it's safer so we can drive it faster and take more risks to bring our risk level back up to what we are comfortable with. Same thing when they improve roads. Safer so we drive faster and take more risks.

One approach would be to try and raise drivers awareness of the risks of driving so that we lower an individuals Acceptable risk level.

my aproach to this is simple......teach my kids how to drive,, take them down to license bureau to get piece of plastic,,,walk out door and promptly take it off them.
i drive for a living every day and see what happens out there, so to give my kids the best chance of surviving, its off to do a full advanced driver ed program for them. and unless they pass at least 95%, i don't give them the piece of plastic.

draconian you may say, but i would rather see my daughter's come home every day.

rick.

Hi Axle,

I agree with Mike Harding on this one.

Education is the key but governments etc like to beat their chest and say how much they are doing but in fact they come up short.

I think people approaching the age to get a licence need to firstly be correctly taught how to drive including basic vehicle maintenance and then they should move on to an accredited defensive driving course and if succesful at this level they then should move on to a more advanced vehicle handling course which would cover things such as how to control a vehicle in a front wheel skid etc.

I know this sounds like a lot of training but I think it needs to happen before people are unleashed on the roads.

When I joined the ambulance service it was a pre-requisite to have your drivers licence but you didn't get near any of their vehicles until you had done the defensive and advanced training.

I know when I showed up to do this I thought I was pretty clever but I was put into situations where the instructor by way of using the dual controls in the vehicle quickly made me aware of how much I didn't know.

I think some of this education could be implemented while kids are in the later years of high school but in reality I think I am only dreaming.

I don't think fines etc are the answer.

Anyhow that's my two cents worth.

Have a good one.

Damn interesting. I've a 16yo daughter who is being taught now (by both parents) and is also lined up for lessons by others (including an accredited truck driver assessor). We have some really interesting conversations in the car, especially when she is a passenger, she tends to pick us up on faults. But, she is starting to learn to be aware, rather than just drive. The ability to drive is one thing, the awareness of the surroundings is another. She scares me, but I am a very cautious driver. I let her drive home from the RTA when she got her learner's permit. It's extremely daunting to learn how to drive, but once the mechanics and reactions are in place it get easier. In NSW they have to produce a log book of 50 hrs in varying conditions. 50 hrs is nothing, its guided experience they need and lots of it. Daughter is getting lots of experience in excess of the 50hrs (and has driven Big Red). I know that there is no guarantee when they get out by themselves, but a steady hand explaining the situations, even when she is a passenger, goes a long way.

Ohhh...and what car will I let her drive when she gets her licence...the 2.8d Hilux of course....lol.

We were all bullet proof once, I intend to let her see some of the scars where we had the near misses.

Cheers,

Michael

CURFEWS, PASSENGER LIMITS, AND POWER RESTRICTIONS
FOR YOUNG DRIVERS.

Imagine a youth at 16 years of age targeting a career as a journalist, having had twelve years at school without the compulsory subject of English. The youth would crash at the first hurdle! This is what is happening to youths who are embarking on a life of driving a car, having had little or no education on the subject.

The three E's of road trauma countermeasures are Enforcement, Engineering and Education. In the past there has been substantial advancement in Enforcement (random breath tests, speed cameras, red light cameras etc.) and Engineering (seat belts, air bags, abs brakes, dual carriageways, roundabouts, etc.), but there has been little advancement in Road User Education. How many P platers have learnt how to drive at night, on gravel roads, in wet or snow/frost conditions? How many have learnt how to maintain a car, motor cycle or even a bicycle in a safe operating condition? How many have learnt how a road is designed or how to recognise hazardous conditions?

Curfews and passenger limits may be very effective Enforcement remedies and, car power restrictions may be a very effective Engineering countermeasure to reduce road trauma, but, where is the Education that will reduce the need for these restrictions? Perhaps our educators can develop a year 1-12 subject to cover all aspects of road safety from pedestrians to professional drivers, from skateboards to road trains, and from footpaths to freeways.

A graduate in this subject will have a far greater chance of survival and not crash at the first hurdle.

Rob Caldwell.......Traffic Engineer

No matter how many times I see this topic it annoys me every time I read it.
First of all I am not a P plater.
Why do we always tag P platers as bad drivers? is it because they have that plate on their car that makes us remember them more? I can tell you right now if I counted the number of d*&k heads on the road I see in one day it would be lucky if 1 out of 10 was a P plater.
Is it just that we see the plate and automatically tag them as young and stupid?
Yes the system may be a little light on in allowing young people to get driving licenses and yes I had a few accidents when I was younger but hey everyone needs to learn from their mistakes!
I have a young one and new one on the way (about 1 week away) and I am dreading the day they get behind the wheel but I have learnt from friends teaching their kids that we can't wrap them in cotton wool (as much as we would like).

My daughter has got her P's.

She is FAR more aware of the rules then I bet most adults are.

What she does lack though , is experience.

Regretably , thats the biggest issue which causes the most problems.

When "we" were growing up , we got experience by clowing around on a mates farm , or back paddock , to see what our and the cars limits were.

Unfortunately , thats not as available and is frowned upon these days , coupled with Cheaper and VASTLY more high powered vehicles . . . its a worry.

Who's the meat head who decided to give their daughter, what appered to be her first time behind the wheel driving lesson in peak hour traffic in Adelaide in none other than a V8 100 series Cruiser. Really!
As someone previously stated, driver behaviour is more often than not a result of their trainning, in many instances, their parents!

P.S. The Cruiser didn't even have an ExplorOz sticker on it. Shame shame shame. I guess that would account for the meat head comment!

The reason I went out back of Kelmscott and thrashed around in my old Datsun 180b in the gravel pits(long closed now - sorry kids) is the same reason I suspect kids are doing stupid things on the road. They want to see what happens when... Also, some of you will have to admit, there's something pretty satisfying about pulling a hand brakey then flooring it and getting a nice moving 360 before heading off in the direction you were going in a cloud of dust. (flame on! I know I loved it as a kid)

course I'm older now, that old bomb I had died a horrible slow death many many years ago.

I know, thrashing that old car in the gravel taught me how to handle a skid and more importantly it taught me how quickly it can all go wrong and how little real control you have when the fit hits the shan (which it does very quickly when you're doing silly stuff).

Testing your limits is part of growing up.
Where can kids go today and sow those wild oats safely?

In the UK it costs a lot more to own and run a car, so people there seem to take more care of them, and more care of their driving. The motorway speed limit is 80 mile/hour but the cops won't stop for the most part unless you break the ton (100m/hr) unless you're restricting the flow of traffic. I doubt its an official ruling but certainly thats the case. People tend to be far more courteous and let you in graciously and (almost) always wave thanks if you let them in. There's more of the golden rule in practice there (people doing unto others as they would have them do unto them). They have a rule that makes you have to drive in the left most lane suitable to you, that the right lane is for overtaking, AND IT WORKS! (only critisism is they should ban trucks from ever going into the right lane, I mean, wtf is going through a truckie's mind when he feels the need to overtake the truck in front at 1m/hr faster than its going, blocking up the road for the hundreds of cars backed up behind him who are travelling faster).
They also allow motorbikes to filter between cars at the lights.
Other road users are more than just tolerant of bikers, they often move to the side of their lane to let you zoom past.
The government recognises that motorbikes and scooters are the way to go (especially in the Cities, and for commuters) and they have (some) specific lanes for them (bikes/taxi's/busses), they also don't charge them congestion fee's.
I rode a motorbike in central London for nearly 7 years and I never had an accident due to anyone else's negligence or stupidity.

The police have the focus of maintaining the flow of traffic rather than pedantically upholding the letter of the law, or using it for revenue raising.

Considering the density of the population and number of cars in such a small country they also have a surprisingly low amount of fatalities. Compared to here.

My 2 cents, I'm folding up my soapbox now ;-)

Hi all

IMHO the agression on the road is a by product of the pressure we all put ourselves under every day. And it is manufested as road rage or shopping rage car park rage or just rage. While we all find excuses as to why we rage we in some way allow it to esculate. That is what we allow today will be the norm tomorrow.

I try and set targets when i drive to work of how many cars i can let in in one 45 min trip. so far my record is 48 cars that i have slowed to allow to change lanes and cut in front of me or pull in from a side street when stopped in traffic.

I warm thing is I still get to pass many of the people who i slow down to allow to cut in on me as I just make my way to work. The weavers generally get stuck behind a bus or slow moving vehicle at some point. It's hard to explain the warm glow as I pass them and wave good morning. They seem to forget that it was me who let them in only 200 mtrs back down the road and they mouth and give signs that would indicate that Im the DH.

TM2CW

Trev

Attitude.

I don't think any amount of training will help if you have the wrong attitude to driving. If anything, too much training results in young drivers having a bad attitude. Driving is a very dangerous thing to do, and entails a huge amount of responsibility - especially to innocent others on the road.

I am aware of advanced driver instructors who comment that young girls these days are rapidly becoming as reckless as the boys - becuase of a shift towards a more aggressive attitude to driving - unfortunatley this is also being reflected in the accident stats. I wonder if computer driving games/media has a little to do with this shift in attitude?

I don't know what the solution is, but I don't think more 'education' will necessarily help. However, I do agree with the comment someone made about driving in the gravel pits out Kelmscott way - fooling around like that truely does teach some people how quickly you can loose controll in a car. Those kind of expereinces worked for me (and I was usually the passenger!) - but not for my best mate who was the driver who still drove like a D@#k head for many years, but my mate survived somehow and has since slowed down. Interestingly, loss of license and fines had little impact on him in the early years.

Anyway what works for one person does not necessarily work for others. Any form of driver training needs to recognise this...

Something you rarely see on the roads now is courtesy and respect. Come to think of it, you rarely see it anywhere now.

Andrew

Axle Hi
how did we get here
all they have to do is survive and they will get here Too
thats life

Richard