Disappointed at towing weight latest patrol ute

Large off road a joke?? Are you really familiar with a Bushtracker? Check one out properly and then you can make a comment. Also I have in the past taken an F250 with a 2500 kg. van off road and no problems and I don't taken unnessary risks. Do it slowly and you can go almost anywhere providing you have a real off road van.

Seen plenty of Bushtrackers even seen a few upside down on the side of the road(turtles) overpriced overweight.
What do you call off road please give us some examples i can't wait!

Read the story from Tracker. saves me the trouble. In all my trips around Australia, including offroad, I have never ever seen a caravan overturned. I have never ever heard of a Bushtracker rolling. Have you really ever done offroad with the right equipment?
I have just gone through the Bushtracker factory and believe me I am glad that I have ordered one.

Oh. By the way. Have you travelled over the roads that Tracker mentioned???? Including the GIBB RIVER ROAD>>>>

Off road is when you use the 4wd stick in your vehicle,i don't class rough roads as off road.
I would be interested in the weight of the van you have ordered and what you are going to tow it with.
We do a lot of work for caravan dealers and fit about 20 electric brake systems every month so get to talk to a lot of caravanners.

About 3000Kg. Towing with an F250 7.3L Cab/Chassis. I use the 4wd stick as you call it when necessary.

You will need every bite of that 7.3l truck..

If you have ever driven an F250 or towed a van with one you will appreciate that there is no problems with power. It would drive up a wall if you could stick to it.

I also agree. However the fact is Bushtraker, Kedron, Phoenix, etc are all 3.5 or over. Not a case of towing up the telegraph track as such , more of strong enough to stay togeather for longer if subjected to a lot of dirt road / corrugation type use. The main point here is I can't understand why Nissan rates this vehicle so low. I think it's something to do with the fact they sell the ute as a cab/ chas and don't have any control over final weight in terms of what tray/canopy is added aftermarket. I believe the rules sate that a rule of thumb for working out the allowed trailer weight with brakes is equal to 1.5 times the vehicles GVM, which in the Nissans case is 3100 approx which would give an allowed weight apprx 4.5T. This figure would, I assume, would have a tolerance factor included, so it beats the daylights out of me why Nissan rates the ute so low. Bare in mind the Toyoto equiv is rated at 3.5T and so is the Navara Duel Cab!

Wellsy i challenge anyone to take a 3.5 tonne caravan offroad it does'nt happen! you don't need a bushtracker(turtle) or Phoenix to go on dirt roads ther are plenty of good strong caravans on the market that will do the job! just need to do some homework..

ACDC is correct a true 3.5 ton caravan is a joke off road, i assume we are all talking about the same off road conditions not just a typical graded road. Furthermore 3.5 towing capacity is for the boaties like my midlife crisis father in law, I think the 3.0l patrol only tows 2.5 ton as well. The Navara being able to tow more than a patrol is just plain stupid at the end of the day i could not see a disco towing 4 ton but from memorary Landrover claimed they could. Oh well if you must get a cruiser I'm sure that will make all the Nissan Royalty Happy.

3.0l patrol - manual - 3.5T
Auto - 2.5T

Leroy

Series 1 Discovery - 4T
Series 2 Discovery - 3.5T

I don't think I would do either in a 2T 4wd. At least not regularly.

Our F250s are rated at 3.5T but have been retrospectively upgraded to 4.5T however we still only have 3.5T towbars. They weigh 3.3T in XLT dual cab spec though. Although they will tow that all day without complaint the hard part is keeping the engine running properly :-)~

Wellsy
The 1.5 rule of thumb you mentioned is only allowed in ADRs when a vehicle doesn't have a manufacturer's specified towing weight. So it's something that is useful only with pretty old vehicles, probably at least 20 or so years old.

Gaz4

The 1.5 rule is for older vehicles as you say and I think it mainly is used for trucks etc before 1984.
I agree with the statement "over weight and overpriced." There are certainly lot of them for sale with the fuel prices of today.
My 3 litre tows a 2 tonne van all day with no problems. I get around 16 to 16 L/100 with the tandem van in tow.

Pooley
www.bycompass.com

I understand the 1.5 times the GVM rule is for vehicles without manufactures towing spec, but as the GVM on the ute is 3.1 (x 1.5 = 4.5) either the authorities (who made the rule) or Nissan have got it all wrong!

Wellsy

>>> The main point here is I can't understand why Nissan rates this vehicle so low.

What ratio of people would want to tow that sort of weight with a ute? its not sold, marketed, or designed as a tow vehicle.

Truckster

The type of people (like me) that want to carry extra gear not extra people when they travel would want a ute. How many builders have you seen towing their trailers with wagons or sedans? Thought I read somewhere Ron and Viv Moon have changed their wagon into a duel cab ute, maybe u should ask them. Appreciate your thoughts though!

Wellsy

It was purely a marketing exercise...

It was a wagon, it still is a wagon, its an extended chassis wagon, with a tray.
So they have the extra towing ability.

Ability or legal specification? Just met a guy and his wife who had a compliance engineer certify their Patrol ute to 3500 and they have just completed round aus towing Bushtracker 3000kg van and are now ugrading to larger BT van. They had to add extra bolts to Nissan installed tow bar - thats all.... compliance plate is fitted to tow bar. He has ali check canopy fitted to back plus loaded with boat, motor and lots of gear. Has same drive train and all round disc breaks as wagon ... guess engineer didn't see the same problem as others!

eerfree, Thats a fair call old mate, but, bought the vehicle primarely as a work ute last June and have had a run of luck last 6 mths so decided to look into fullfilling my dreams of doing the old grey nomad adventure a little sooner then planned. Guess I thought I had a pretty strong vehicle until told differently.

Trevor is spot on Wellsy,
The over-warming issues with the 4.2 are well documented by some clown on this forum who has spent many $$$$$ trying to stop his temp gauge from going west (ME!!!). And I only tow a camper trailer rated @ 1300kg......of course my vehicle is around 3000kg too, but that is still less than what your proposed GCM would be if you get a 3000kg caravan behind your 2500kg ute......STREWTH, I'd hate to see what the result would be mate.
Not sure what the answer is, but there is no way I'd ever contemplate towing one of those Bushtrrackers with a Patrol (or even a Blandcruiser)......unless I had the big Chev 6.5 V8 etc. Ford's 7.3L Power Stroker F250; now there's a different kettle of fish!!! Yes please!!
Cheers
Roachie

And yet you can stick 3T behind a Navara which is equally light in the rear end... I just don't get it.

And I wouldn't do that either , but point taken.

I wouldn't either... BTW, it was a dig at Nissan not at your comment...

no

Wellsy

Your got to kidding me! they are just dirt roads i would class any of them as off road!

Thanks Bill, thats the sort of travelling I am refering to. Read a story in one of the mags about a fella who bought a van to travel "off the black top" and was told it would be ok. He reported broken u bolts holding the axels on the chassi, broken pins through the springs etc etc. I guess to build a van "to last" you must compromise the weight for heavier chassies, springs etc. My requirements are simply, when doing the around Aus thing, if I wanted to go off the road into the scrub somewhere to visit some out of the way place, Id like a van that could do it without falling to bits. I'm not talking about Telegraph tracks and Gunshots etc, but the type of roads u mentioned.

Wellsy

Wellsy have a look at the trailcraft website they make a 18ft that weights 1700kg extremely well built! they have dealers around Australia go and have a look.. www.trailcraft.com.au

Thanks ACDC,
Have had a look, my worry is that if it weighs less, how can it be as strong. The chassie must be smaller or thinner gauged. Less water tanks etc etc? You say you work with caravans a bit, do you know why? You say you tow a van, what sort do you have? How is it equipted if it only weighs 1500kg?

Appreciate you ideas.
Wellsy

Wellsy if you get a chance go and have a look at one the chassis is very strong! They also do a heavy duty pack for outback travelling.

My caravan is 14ft built it myself 5 berth triple bunks with table making double bed at other end 3 kids so no choice! most manufacturers don't cater for families these days. solar powered everything 12 volt no 240v input at all, Waeco 110l fridge/stereo/tv/microwave/water pump/rangehood/external floodlights on each side/pantry lights/2 water tanks/3 s/panels/2 130 ah batt/ works really !! very happy with it would love to build another one just for the wife and myself but time is the problem..

Upgraded the suspension to ARB OME shocks and springs also polyair bags when new. Don't think this improves the towing capacity. Nissan tells me the capacity is based on a combination of things like, motor, gearbox diffs chassie etc etc. Now the Patrol Wagon has a capacity of 3.5t. The only difference, I can see, between the ute and wagon is that the wagon is heavier. So does this mean when I add a canopy, fridge, generator etc etc and put my boat and outboard on the ute, it will improve my towing capabilities? I think not!

Wellsey

Thanks Matt, I have come to a couple of conclusions. 1. I bought the wrong vehicle to do what I wanted. 2. I bought the wrong ute. (Those considering a ute for towing, stay clear of Nissan Patrols) Toyota is rated at 3.5T. 3. Going to keep the Patrol and downsize the van. Problem is it appears the "strong" caravan makers van's are all getting up there in weight. Chassie strength dictates a heavier van as does extra water tanks and solar batteries needed for self sufficiency. Wanted a shower and toilet facility as well so to achieve this the size increases again - therefore so does the weight. Some will say -0 you don't need all that, but did the "Cape" and "Central Australia" years ago when I was younger and camped all the way. Getting older and now looking for some creature comforts along the way. In saying that don't mind "leaving the van parked" and tenting for a few days to hard to reach spots, so I guess don't need 4x4 van just a good strong van with dirt road suspension and capabilities.

Regards
Wellsey