100 series front diffs

Submitted: Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 08:23
ThreadID: 29942 Views:3061 Replies:8 FollowUps:15
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Hi All
Heard a bit of talk around the place about front diff failures in the 100s
Are they IFS or live axle ones or both that have problems?
Any feedback much appreciated
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Reply By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 08:31

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 08:31
Heard all the talk , but have you actually spoken to someone who has had a failure ? There is a fair bit of BS in this .
I have spoken to a few 4WD mechanics of note and they say that the only time they are weak , is if you strain them too much in reverse .
AnswerID: 149959

Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 00:15

Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 00:15
I hate to tell you this Willie but I broke my front diff last year on my second Cape York trip. Luckily I was on the way home at Palm Creek the last creek on the OTL so was able to creep into Bramwell Station. I disconected the front prop bleep and removed the drive plates and was able to drive home in 2wd much to the relief of my 6 customers and myself. When we pulled it apart they found it had stripped teeth off the crown wheel. My truck had done 106k klms but was replcaed under warranty. The lower control arms were also replaced under warranty as the ball joints were warn. The 100 has turned into a soft roader I am afraid you can't trust them in the bush any more. One very disapointed T\D owner. I have done Palm creek dozens of times in 80s and RA 100s with no problem.
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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 11:06

Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 11:06
Rob ,

I don't think you hate telling me anything - you love it . From reading the replies to the post though , I don't see an endemic problem with Toyota diffs .

The number of people who have had a diff problem , would be of a similar ratio to those who have had a problem with other mechanical failures .

I know you are an expert Rob , but maybe , just sometimes , when YOU break something , it does not mean everyone else will .

Cheers ,

Willie .
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Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 19:56

Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 19:56
I hope for your sake you are right Willie. Because my car is my livlihood I treat it very gently and carefully with regular sevicing, it may do lots of klms but it does them very easily. Cheers Rob
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Reply By: desert - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 08:51

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 08:51
I think that it a standing order; don't reverse tow or snatch with any Toyota. They ain't Nissan's remember.....!
AnswerID: 149963

Follow Up By: Member - Geoff M (Newcastle) - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 09:06

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 09:06
Gee, I wish you'd told me that years ago. Then I'd know why I've never busted a Toyota front diff snatching in reverse!

Geoff.
Geoff,
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Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 09:27

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 09:27
One member here with un-named with a 105 doing a training course drove over a rock. He can spell his name out to you and the info too if he wants, but broke teeth off.
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Reply By: ev700 - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:33

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:33
Some Nissan proponents know of a friend of a friend of a friend who heard of someone who could have had a problem with a Toyota sometime.

However Toyota owners are very content though and I am one of them.

Bit like the bleep about cracking IFS - I chased everywhere checking this out before I got my new 100 Series TD and could not find any actual examples. Local ARB and others had not seen any and said it was a Chicken Little story.

In short, the aftermarket guys were happy to sell an aftermarket kit but it was a case of maaaate, some blokes can break anything if they really try and if it is extreme offroad you want, every vehicle has to be modified and every vehicle will break something, some way, some day.

What about the hares running around about Nissan 3.0 's that hole their pistons?
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Follow Up By: dieselup - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:59

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:59
Thanks ev
Seems if you treat em right they're probably ok
ps- know a bit about the Nissans though ,we had one
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 13:48

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 13:48
I know guys with their heads in the sand too. They even seem outwardly intelligent.

The guy I am referring to above is a regular here and is a leader of his local area 4by club and I don't believe is a harsh driver, but in an instructed session it smashed the diff.

Look around a bit fellas....
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 15:31

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 15:31
I always try to avoid this one brand versus another thing. It is not productive.

My point was that there are no queues outside Toyota dealers with failed anything.

Equally there would not appear to be queues outside Nissan dealers re blown 3.0L motors. Although from this site alone there would seem to be more reports of that occurring in normal use and these allegations are come from Nissan owners.

There is no vehicle made that does not sustain some damage or wear and small samples of any alleged 'problem' are not indicative of anything.

Popular vehicles should have a higher incidence of reported damage simply because there are many of those vehicles on the road and secondly more drivers are likely to press them more in hard going.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 17:00

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 17:00
I actually said a year ago ev700 that I has to straighten my back axle after Moses fell in a hole with the heavy snail shell. The guy who straightened it told me he repaired 10 to each of the Nissan ones - 10 Yotas that was. They obviously don't make the warranty queue. i know mine didn't.
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 19:32

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 19:32
John

With respect, that is anecdotal stuff.

Are you saying that Toyota owners are so unassertive that they wouldn't be out en mass on this forum and others if there was a a common breakage happening during normal use?

Are Nissan owners the only ones who scream (and for Toyota owners as well?). ;-) ;-)

You get my drift?

EV700
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 22:07

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 22:07
anectotal to you ev, but was a direct report from the business owner to me. Funny that Yotas had 10 axles in to each Nissan one though. He said he had never bought Nissan ones as they always had repaired. the tinware isn't cheap I was told too. Yeh, it is anecdotal, but as I said was told to me by the guy owning the business. I stand by what I was told.

Sorry I don't get your drift
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:44

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 12:44
I know of a driver of a IFS 100Series who broke a few teeth on the front diff.
The vehicle was driven up a rutted hill that it should have been able to drive up, but because a wheel was lifted off the ground and then come back down with the wheel spinning, the diff went bang. The diff was fixed under warranty.

I have also seen the reinforcement part that ARB supply fitted to vehicles but as yet not seen a broken front end.

There is a lot of talk out there but I only go with what I have seen myself,that way I know that it is true.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 13:39

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 13:39
Big Kidz actually had their front end pic as the Rig Pic at one stage with arrows showing the cracks.
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Reply By: 120scruiser - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 16:26

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 16:26
I look after heaps of 4by's in my workshop and have never had a problem with a toyota front diff being either a 100 800 60 or hilux.
Mind you I have to go up to Lower Portland and have a look at one this week but I think he has smashed a cv joint trying to tow a jeep with boat attached up a boat ramp that the jeep couldn't manage.
I will see as it may well be my first but I doubt it.
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Reply By: BUSTED100 - Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 16:50

Saturday, Jan 21, 2006 at 16:50
I love my Land Cruiser 100 but it's now the misses car and I now have a 80 Series.
1. first crown wheel was my fault 5000km (replaced by Toyota)
2. first CV was my fault (helping pull mates Triton up rocks)
3,4. Cv's who nows (lockers then put in front & rear)
5. second crown wheel lost teeth going up a steep climb (straight run, after this many breakages to scared to turn the steering wheel $$$$$$$$$$$$)
6. Just replaced the third crown wheel 3 teeth missing (now have a second hand front diff with my front locker sitting in a box in the garage)
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Follow Up By: beanz2 - Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 03:00

Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 03:00
Busted100, was yours an IFS 100 or was is a solid axle 105?

Dave
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Follow Up By: BUSTED100 - Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 03:45

Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 03:45
Dave,
it's a 100 SERIES, the IFS V8
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Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 19:46

Sunday, Jan 22, 2006 at 19:46
Don't you just love all the Toyota drivers who think their cars are so much superior than the rest then put their heads in the sand when something goes wrong :-)
Yes the 100 series diffs are weak as pi$$. How do I know? Well I've blown 4 & heard of at least 60 more on the "Landcruiser owners online" chat group.
When I blew the first one I took it into the Toyota dealer & they said they had only ever repaired one other yet the apprentice told me they had done 6 that year. They didn't even look at the car, just ordered all the parts & repaired it no questions asked. The fact they didn't query the warrenty claim at all told me it was very common indeed. The diff is basically the same as used in the earlier Hilux's & even they broke them.
The most common way they break is when heavily loaded in first gear low range, you lift a wheel, it spins without traction then suddenly comes down. Result is between 2 & 10 teeth ripped off the crown wheel. The accepted reason it happens is that the diff centre housing flex's under extreme load allowing the teeth to separate just enough that they jump over & BANG. The other less likely way is when snatching in reverse. Only heard of 2 such cases personally.
A regular fix for the problem is to fit an ARB diff lock. The 2 piece diff centre is machined & bolted together (not 1 piece cast) & is said to be 10 times more rigid than standard. Also the crushable spacer is replaced by a machined spacer minimising any flex there as well.
It seems that often the first time you blow one may be after 50,000+ KM but a 2nd one may go after only another 10K. I put this down to poor fitment by the Toyota dealers who may not be diff experts. My last repair was by ATS in Geelong, one of the few workshops that seem to understand the problem. They have done almost 40 100 series diffs & only had 2 back (both who were into competition) They even machined my ARB locker which wasn't totally true to set the diff up as good as it can be. Have had no issue since (touch wood) despite a fair bit of 1st low, high country driving.
The problem is not isolated to just one model & solid or inependent axle makes little difference.
The extent of the problem can be seen by the fact that 4WD monthly ran a 3 page step by step article with photo's a while back explaining how you can swap your constant 4 wheel drive 100 series into a rear wheel drive out in the bush after you blow up the front diff. I have the proceedure down to 20 minutes & even carry two 14mm spanners to do the job:-)))
So lets not pretend the problem doesn't exhist. It's an issue Toyota no doubt hopes will just go away but seems not to be doing much about, they certainly don't want to talk to anyone who's blown one that's for sure & for the 95%+ who don't go true offroad with their 100 series it will never be an issue.
For those who have a blown diff or want more imformation on how to strengthen them for real offroad use then have a look on the
landcruiser owners online 100 series forum. (& for those in denial, stop putting your head in the sand:-)
Cheers Craig.........
HZJ105 with 4 blown front diffs. O what a feeling............
PS: Why do you ask Dieselup? What do you drive?
AnswerID: 150188

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 01:21

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 01:21
Crackles

You must have not seen inside your diff

I would fine this hard to believe (that must be 10 mm or more)

"The accepted reason it happens is that the diff centre housing flex's under extreme load allowing the teeth to separate just enough that they jump over & BANG."

Richard
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 20:56

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 20:56
Picky picky Richard ;-) Yes I have seen inside my diff more times than I'd like & I suppose I'll have to concede it doesn't actually jump the full 10mm over the tooth but just rides up enough to shear the tip clean off then tear the next few in line.
Cheers Craig...........
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