Range Rover ...... 4WD of The Year

Submitted: Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 16:59
ThreadID: 30389 Views:3449 Replies:31 FollowUps:98
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Funny how the Range Rover being voted 4WD OTY has been greeted here with deafening silence.
Does it offend Japanese 4WD owners, of which I'm one, that a non Japanese vehicle has won for the second consecutive year?
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Reply By: gramps - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:02

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:02
Yawn .... voted by who? Does it make a difference whose turn it is?
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:22

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:22
LOL!!!
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Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:04

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:04
I think you will find it was a Disovery3 not the Range Rover I notice the Landcruiser broke its front diff and came last out of 7 vehicles Surely that must tell toyota there really is a problem. Cheers Rob
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:00

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:00
Well said gramps lol
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Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:46

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:46
Yep the LC has sccoed badly, particularly since the 100 series IFS came on the scene
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:51

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:51
But.. but... IFS is the way of the future in Offroading..

Its awesome, foolproof, doesnt break, is cheap and easy to modify...

Im drunk again.
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Follow Up By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 12:05

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 12:05
Rob, it definitely is the Range Rover. It's the 4X4 Australia magazine 4x4 of the year 2006, March 2006 edition.

"Only genuine off-roaders (equipped with Low-Range) that were new or significantly upgraded during 2005 were eligible"
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Reply By: Vivid Adventures - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:09

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:09
I only bought one 4WD this year and it wasn't a Rangie.

I guess my vote didn't count.

Rangie's don't have 8 seats.
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Reply By: craig - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:16

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:16
sounds like a good choice to me. but thats just me. having owned a land cruiser , jackaroo , susuki and 2 rangies they seem to just have something special about them. am sure I will get shot down in flames on this forum but hey everyone has there own choice.
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:24

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:24
I might get the slightest bit excited over which vehilce wins if they were a3rd the price and i could actually afford one. I would get even more excited if they used any criteria that I might take into account before buying a vehicle.
I see real life 4wdotys running every day and it is called work - that is what i pay attention to
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:12

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:12
It was $80,000.00, I expect it wouldn't be hard to get a Landcruiser up to that.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:06

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:06
ok then make that 1 1/4 of the price and I might get interested. What i am saying is I have little intrest in which new car wins what wheather it be jap, pommy, korean or intian (Tata??) but I have a an intrest in the 2nd hand 4by market
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:30

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:30
Shaker!!! A Turbo diesel Cruiser GXL with a leather bound gear knob is about $80,000.. Michael
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Reply By: Patrolman Pat - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:28

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 17:28
Which mag's 4WDOTY was it? I stopped reading them when they became one big advertorial. Can't take them too seriously myself, although the Rangie may well be a good choice.
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Follow Up By: Redback - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 17:31

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 17:31
Well actually nearly every major mag in the world has voted the RR Sport or the Discovery 3, 4WDOTY.
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Reply By: Darren C - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 18:00

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 18:00
Clearly affordability and the real liklihood of using such cars off road isnt a factor.
They are probably right in terms of the criteria they do actually use but everyday usage clearly isnt one of them

What I would like to see would be a 'follow up' 4wdoty competition with exactly the same makes and models say 3 years after they were in the original 4wdoty competition to see if the judges opinions have changed........am sure this would be more interesting and more relevant to the readership
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:13

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:13
$80,000.00? & you obviously have no experience of the RR capabilities off road.
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Follow Up By: Wombat - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:15

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:15
Geez Darren, surely you're not suggesting that the LandRover Discovery is inferior in its "offroadability" in comparison to the Patrol and Lancruiser, are you? And last time I checked the three were within cooee of each other with regard to recommended retail price, albeit the Patrol is slightly cheaper.
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Follow Up By: Wombat - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:17

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:17
$80,000 after haggling on the price and then adding a few accessories I would humbly suggest, Paul.
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Follow Up By: Darren C - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:29

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:29
Wombat, no way - havent got the experience to comment on any of the rovers although clearly they are more technologically advanced than Patrol & Landcruiser who will probably follow suit in a couple of years....

Just thought it would be interesting to see how the Rovers stack up against the usual suspects a few years down the track once they have done a few ks. I think that would give a useful comparison of the their reliability etc....just an idea

PS - I also thought that the Discovery model that won last year was about 80k - its only the recent lower spec model thats on a par with the other two and I note that didnt fair quite so well this year....

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Reply By: garrycol - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 18:36

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 18:36
The Jap lovers would be crowing if a cruiser one or a patrol won - but then all of a sudden the mag writers don't know anything so to the Nip lovers there is something wrong with the award. - the silence is golden.

Garry
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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 13:41

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 13:41
Garry ,
Do you ever feel that everyone is staring at you ? Are they all out to get you ? Are they conspiring against you .
I bet it's all those "Jap lovers" and " Nip Lovers " - what a bunch of creeps , eh Garry ?
Have a nice day ,
Willie .
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Reply By: Member - John L G - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:15

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:15
Shaker

I must admit to not being the slightest bit interested in 4WD OTY and only because I personally think the entire crop of new fourbies, wether they be Japanese, English, German or whatever simply don't do it for me.

You lift the the lid on any of the new generation vehicles and chances are if it stops, it will stay stopped until the tow truck and service manager with his invoice book arrives- absolutely no bloody good in the middle of the Gibson or Simpson where if a break down occurred, as long as you had compression, air and fuel - there is a pretty good chance of getting it all going again.

The suspension & drive bits are simple enough but the engine needs to be kept simple without computers and gizmos controlling the game - that's of course if you are going seriously off road.

If Toorak's the game and your purchase is to simply compare technologies in a p#@+?ing contest at the local Late shop then that's fine but don't call it a bush truck if it needs some sort of outside support in the case of breakdown.

That's my view.

John G
AnswerID: 152802

Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:30

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:30
Shaker - I share your sendiments but the reality is that new vehicles have to meet pollution and fuel consumption requirements and the only way to do that is with the electronics. The only other option at the moment would be to not have 4wds or use old polluting ones.

I cannot see makers putting in expensive electronics if they didn't have too.

Garry
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Reply By: desert - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:26

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:26
Agree with most posts. Have a thought how you would set up a vehicle for the high country. Then have a thought how you would set a vehicle up for a desert crossing of 1200kms. Then have a thought if it would be suitable to drive in traffic five days a week. Then tell me if the 4WDOTY fits that scenario? Bollocks!
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Reply By: Equinox - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:18

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:18
Who cares - its only out of the new release vehicles anyway.

It could be argued that Rover hasn't got a "good thing" to stick to.

Eq.

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Follow Up By: Steve - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:03

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:03
yeah, should've stuck to the ole horse & cart shouldn't we?

The Japs'll all be round the drawing board frantically trying to do a cheapo version. I suppose it depends on your needs. Having had a couple of Landrovers and a couple of cruisers (which I now have) I'll be going back to the Landrover. For me a far more enjoyable car to drive. That's what it's about isn't it? As for reliability, I never had any problem with either L/R. The early Discos had problems and a few with the early MKII Rangies. Mud sticks and some will never give it a rest. Their problem.
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:26

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:26
My 11yo son said a while ago that they put a DVD player standard in the Rover line-up so that it gives you something to do while you wait for Breakdown Road Service!!! Is that True???
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Follow Up By: Axle - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:48

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:48
So Nissan dont even have a dvd player??
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Follow Up By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:00

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:00
Probably luck then that nissan owners never have to wait for the brakedown road service then eh. :-))

Avagoodn
Pezza
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:21

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:21
They don’t have time to wait, they are all too busy trying to catch up to all the landies that have left them behind.

As usual.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 09:34

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 09:34
Except when a hole has developed in a piston - and the motor - she no work anymore
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Reply By: The Explorer - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:00

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:00
No - Rovers are obviously quality vehicles. Think the silence is because out here in the real world most people dont even know there is such a "competition" ( Personally I know various mags do it but dont keep up to date) and even if they did (like me) most would not give a hoot ....simple as that. Wouldnt mind one though (despite the fact they look ugly) ..good replacement for the RAV.
a href="http://www.landrover.com.au/au/en/Company/News/Overlander_4WD_of_the_Year_2005.htm
">Overlander 4WD OTY

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Greg

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:02

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:02
woops stuffed up the link (as usual)
Overlander 4WDOTY

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:44

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:44
yeah I knew that ...will get the links right eventually
Is this the right one?

Cheers
Greg

I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Reply By: Crackles - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:03

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:03
Congratulations to Range Rover on 4WD OTY. Obviously their advancement in technology has impressed the judges with a great all round package. I wish Rover all the best for reliability in the years to come as maybe then they would hold their resale value & make them an option worth buying.
Cheers Craig.............
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 17:08

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 17:08
The Rover line up may do their off road job well but i think they would be a nightmare if some of the electronics go wrong when you least need them to. They have so many traction, uphill, descent and miles of other stuff... I guess thats why i will get my 3rd consecutive Nissan 4.2tdi in a few months.. Nissan may not be real flash but relatively simple and good resale value. Michael
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Reply By: Member - toohey - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:16

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 21:16
g'day all
a lot of the tracks you mob a now drive'n was surveyed by a bloke drive'n a rover,4cycl, petrol at that,skinny tyres and all'with a back up crew that had stuff all,my point they have been making them for a bloody long time and do'n the job.

cheers toohey
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Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:18

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:18
Gees one of the mags 4wdOTY didn't even test the Patrol or Cruiser in a field of 8 or 10 vehicles. What is the point if you don't test two of the countries biggest sellers - even if they haven't had substantial changes?

When I worked in the automotive industry the xOTY & "SPY PIC" articles were the funny pages of the mags. Results bought, traded, cajoled and swindled.

They never bag the popular vehicles in any more than a token criticism fashion. They are too worried that they'll miss out on the next review or exclusive "SPY PIC" leak.

Funny how many of the "SPY PICS" of Holden's over the years have been from locations recognisably behind secured boundaries or buildings....

Dave

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Reply By: Jack2000 - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:30

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:30
The Range Rover Sport is a ripper. Wish I could afford one!
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Reply By: ev700 - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:37

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:37
I guess Queensland's car sales figures are representative of the rest of Australia.

The RACQ listed the best sellers for 2005 as being:

SUV Medium
Toyota Prado 26%
Ford Territory 22.8%
Mitsubishi Pajero 13.6%

SUV Large
Toyota Landcruiser 63.8%
Nissan Patrol 34.9%
Ford Explorer 1.3%

SUV Luxury
BMW X5 24.6%
Lexus RX 330 16.0%
Jeep Grand Cherokee 12.3%

Do consumers get it so wrong or are the journalists missing something?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:04

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:04
what is this SUV bleep ? none of them are utes.
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Follow Up By: gramps - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:46

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:46
ev700,

Why is it that the Medium and Luxury categories both have more contestants (i.e. the sales figures don't add up to 100%) whereas the Large category seems to only have 3 choices (i.e. adds up to 100% neat) ? Surely there are more than just those three :)))
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Follow Up By: theshadows - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:13

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:13
Am I getting sarcastic here or did Land rover and bmw just pump more advertising dollars into the magazines and sent the jounro's more gifts??

I'd love lave to see the advertising breakdown figures...

LOL MX5 car of the year again for a 2 seat soft top and its over 40 k.
Just the car the ozi family needs.....
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:26

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:26
LOL... Sarcastic Shads?? NEVER! Honest!
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:58

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:58
gramps

That is how the RACQ displayed them.
Maybe there are many vehicles in some categories with small market shares and hence are not shown.
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Reply By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:38

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:38
Just to clarify the original post:

Overlander 4WD Magazine Announces 4WDOTY of the Year
25 Jan 2006

The Range Rover Sport TDV6 was announced the winner of the highly anticipated 4WD Drive of the Year (4WDOTY) award by Overlander 4WD magazine today.

The winning 4WD shone throughout the days of testing and was unfazed by the harsh conditions it was put through. “The Range Rover Sport ate all the terrain we threw at it with comfort, poise and an effortless gait. For a no-compromise vehicle you can’t go past the Sport. It didn’t raise a sweat on this test and it did it all in comfort,” says Mathieu Raudonikis, Overlander 4WD editor.

The Range Rover Sport was chosen from a field of more than 25 eligible new 4WD vehicles launched in 2005. From these, seven vehicles were short-listed and taken away for a week of thorough testing over almost 1500 kilometres of roads and tracks, including some of Australia’s premier 4WD tracks in the NSW and Victorian High Country.

The short-listed finalists were the Hyundai Terracan CRDi, Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo CRD, Mercedes Benz ML320CDi, Nissan Navara, Nissan Pathfinder, Toyota Hilux and of course the Range Rover Sport TDV6. The winning vehicle was judged by Overlander’s team of 4WD experts, who between them have more than 180 years experience in the motor industry.

The Range Rover Sport was the clear market leader with its groundbreaking tradition of combining supreme luxury, comfort and refinement, along with genuine 4WD ability and toughness. It does all this with innovative designs that point the way ahead for rival manufacturers that are content to follow rather than lead. It is the 26th recipient of the much coveted Overlander 4WDOTY award
AnswerID: 152838

Follow Up By: ev700 - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:53

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:53
That doesn't clarify the original post. The original post was a sledge : )

And it doesn't explain why the results of Car of the Year Awards are so often at odds with the buying preferences of the public.

What makes the journos right and the buying public wrong?

As Professor Julius Sumner Miller used to say: "Why is it so?" : )
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:01

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:01
I disagree, it does clarify the original post, several people thought it was the Disco 3 that won.

As for the rest of your follow up ......... fiik

All I did was post the result, as curiously no one else had, as far as it being a sledge, I think I also mentioned mentioned that I own a Japanese 4WD.

I think toohey hit the nail on the head with his reply!

Land Rovers were good, are good & probably always will be good, & before you mention problems, read the posts here about Japanese 4WD problems.
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:36

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:36
OK, the Landrover owners did not introduce/post on the subject either, so why stiff the 'Jap' fourby owners?

I'm not into product jealousy, they are all just cars.

I don't know why Landrovers don't sell, but then again many apparently reasonable vehicles flop in the market place.

However I do not think it is adequate for a magazine to post results that are at odds with buying preferences in the marketplace without some reasoning as to the whys and wherefores of that circumstance.

Otherwise people will see the results as irrelevant and possibly misleading. That is why some people yawn at COTY results.

A search of the Exploroz archives will show that there is some questioning of the quality, independence and relevance of reviews and tests done by four wheel drive magazines and by motoring journalists generally.

Discussion by journalists of obvious discrepancies with national sales data (buying preferences) might in this case go some way towards assisting the credibility of awards such as the COTY.
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 07:27

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 07:27
ev700, you have totally missed the point.

This is not about which is the biggest selling 4x4, you can get those figures every month.

The aim of best 4x4 for the previous year is based on comparing all the new models released and showing which was the most superior not which won sold the most.

You go on about the results being “ irrelevant and possibly misleading “, you could find anything more irrelevant and misleading than the current toy ad that says that if you get bitten by a snake your toy will take you home.

RIGHT, that’s if it doesn’t run out of fuel or the front diff doesn’t stuff up and so on.

Maybe you would like to see the mags print an article based on the 4x4 with the most failures. I can pretty well assure now days it WON’T be an LR. over the last couple of years toyota have been having some major problems with vehicles and nissan haven’t faired much better.

Try reading the article for what it is.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 11:08

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 11:08
Drivesafe..
Do you have any idea HONESTLY?

Remember the BMW X5 4WDOTY?? Go and re-read it....

The thing was EXEMPT from parts of the test, yet still wins.. How? It couldnt even complete the testing. It was not designed to do this and that, yet it beats others that ARE designed for all round.

Think about it.. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Its got nothing to do with whats good/capable or anything

Mate at BMW in Brighton had their signs already made and ready to go up in the windows a week before it was announced.
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 11:17

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 11:17
drivesafe

You misrepresent what I am saying. I am not criticising any particular make.

You asked me to read the article and now I am asking you to be clear about the criteria for the 4WDOTY:

- 4WDOTY is not about the 'best' vehicle, it is about change and innovation; and

- Even then it includes only those vehicles made available for testing.

However, even if I accept your (wrong) claim that the 4WDOTY selects the best vehicle, their definition of 'best' is not that of the buying public and that ought to be discussed.

Again I ask: "What makes the journos right and the buying public wrong?"

Are their 'world views' so different?
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:06

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:06
ev700

"I don't know why Landrovers don't sell, but then again many apparently reasonable vehicles flop in the market place."

ev700, you should ask your guide dog how many Dicos there are on the road, before you make that sort of statement.
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 16:34

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 16:34
Shaker

The figures I gave are from RACQ's Road Ahead magazine December 2005-January 2006 and their source is quoted.

I don't know how many Discos were sold but there were obviously not enough to be included on RACQ's list.

For comparison, The Mitsubishi Pajero (third place getter in total sales) sold 1751 units in Queensland in 2005 and this represented 13.6% of SUV Medium sales. Because Land Rover was not listed it would have sold fewer units than Pajero.

If you say that Land Rover should be in the SUV Large category, the third place getter for sales was Ford Explorer which sold 63 units or 1.3% of the total.

The figures speak for themselves.
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Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:06

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:06
I'LL stick to the old hilux thanks has air ,steer and wont cost me a bleep load to repair if it goes wrong, yeah its slow,likes to wonder a little bit,no turbo, chooffs a little black smoke climbing the hills but at 280.000klms and still going strong spent $700 on injector pump,couple of timing belts,2 new clutches had new wheel bearings once, 5k ago had the swivel hubs done twice last time 5k ago and just got front springs replaced this week and new shockies cost all up approx 3k in 17 years been round oz twice. Would I like a new Rangie ? no thanks dont doubt that they are a great vehicle to drive but 3k for new heater fan inside because it has dual climate control and it has three fans to push the air out and you cant buy them individually surprise, surprise, for that Im half way for a fully rebuilt motor so I can do another 280 k not that there's any thing wrong with my motor at the moment. Technoligy is a great thing but when some thing goes wrong it's going to cost a fortune. Just my thoughts for the day. Regards steve M
AnswerID: 152842

Follow Up By: Nebster - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:35

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:35
DittO

Our old Hilux has a similar storey line and still going strong.

Having said that, we would love to be able to buy a new vehicle, (What sort? we don't know) ,But then we wouldn't have any money left to go anywhere.

The thing about being a bit older and slower , is that you've always got a clear road in front of you. ;)

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:25

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:25
I have been saying for some time now that if I did not have to carry around 3 kids and the associated gear I would look very closely at what Rover produce.

Over the last 17 years I have travelled in company with a few different Land/Range rovers and all have impressed me greatly.

As for reliability, I found an article back in 1998 talking about Landrover's 50th anniversary. Among the interesting snippets of info it contained was the fact that at the time over 60% of all Landrovers ever built were still road registered. Add to that the hundreds that are still providing faithful service on private properties unregistered and I think the reliability question is answered.

The article was NOT published by Rover but was in an Australian Mag, can't remember which one it was, sorry.

As for popularity being the judge of quality, check out the sales figures on a Rolls Royce compared to a Statesman or Fairlane. Even the big Mercs and BM's out sell them but I would still prefer a Roller, if it had more diffs and better ground clearance of course.

I read the NRMA Open Road this arvo and noticed their COTY article and the Rover which won that one too. Didn't mention it 'cause like many others I am not overly interested. Had it been a Nissan I would probably have had a friendly dig at the 'Yota fans on this site, but would not have mentioned it for any other reason.

Duncs
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:18

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:18
Sales figures indicate something about value for money and suitability to the buying public though.

Would a Rolls Royce win a COTY award? Probably not. Because it would be disqualified if there hadn't been a lot of recent changes to it.

That is a pre-requisite for consideration, I think.

EV700
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 07:49

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 07:49
Hi Duncs, if you haven’t already done so, go take a D3 for a test drive.

I have a 2003 Range Rover and a 2005 D3 and although, in physical size, the Range Rover is probably the largest 4x4 on the road in Australia, the space inside has been devoted to the passengers so it’s really not a pack mule but the D3 has heaps more luggage room than the Range and just recently I had relos up for a visit and we used the D3 as a 7 seater and the two guys in the back row were both over 6 foot and still had plenty of room.

The RRS should have been a two door coupe, there really isn’t all that much room in them.

But it’s horses for courses.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: StephenF10 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 09:51

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 09:51
All that sales figures prove is that there are a lot of people with blinkers on that don't bother to look beyond the "Big Two". If they did they might realise how far off the pace the Big Two are.

Stephen.
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Follow Up By: gramps - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 11:18

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 11:18
StephenF10,

Do you honestly think the majority of buyers are fools with blinkers on?

Just a little big headed of you I think, or do you own a Land/Range Rover and think you have to justify it? Why? Does it really matter what other people think of your chosen vehicle?

If the damn thing suits your purposes who gives a stuff what others think :)))))
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 09:22

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 09:22
Gramps, I wouldn’t definitely not call them fools but we all go round with blinkers on for one reason or another. If we didn’t, no one would buy a Toyota 4x4.

This is not an LR is better than Toyo argument, it’s a case of people do buy because of reasons that have absolutely no barring on the product they are buying or why they are buy a specific product.

Why do most people buy Toyotas, because their mates have them, or they believe the ads or because it looked good or just because the toyota dealer was the closest. Who knows but if you were specifically looking for a good on road and off road 4x4, in reality, Toyotas would be one of the last to look at.

They are fuel guzzling, waddling sludge boxes on road and to make them anything worthwhile off road you have to spend a fortune on it after you but them.

Up until a few years ago, I would have been the first to acknowledge that one of Toyotas most powerful advantages was it’s reliability, that’s no long the case and if Toyota does not dramatically improve it’s game, it will have a poorer name for reliability than LR ever had.

Toyota does not make particularly good 4x4s, they do make good 4x4 ads and thats why there are so many of them on the road. Toyota knows how to get the consumer’s attention.

The irony is that, whether you think LRs are any good or not, LR would not know what a good ad was if it jumped up and bit them on the butt.

People have always shopped with blinkers on and not just for 4x4s. A perfect example is the battle that was waged over VHS and Beta video tape systems. 20 years after the battle was won buy VHS, any professional that you talk to will tell you the the Beta system is still far superior to VHS but Panasonic won the battle by producing good ads not by producing a superior product and as I bought VHS I’m as guilty as everybody else.

People most certainly do go around with blinkers on.
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Follow Up By: gramps - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 09:36

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 09:36
Drivesafe,

I don't have any real leaning to any particular make of vehicle whatsoever. As long as whatever I buy suits my purposes I'm happy.

It just amuses me that some posters get so worked up trying to vindicate their choice. Why? I can only put it down to the eternal male bleep contest LOLOL
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:59

Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 23:59
The manufacturer that wins these things is always the one that spends the most on advertising with the relevant mag.
How else do you equate the fact that one magazine in its extensive testing rate one model / manufacturer as number one and the next magazine rates another model / manufacturer as its number one.

This is nothing more than advertising hype, which should not surprise most of us as plenty has been posted on here about the number of adds and the crap content of the respective 4wd mags in this country.

These results are are only to draw in the suckers who are naive enough to believe that the 4wd magazine's in this country have credibility.
To the educated buyer these results would mean nothing.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:05

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 00:05
ROTFLMAO!!!

I couldnt have said it better, but you forgot, that these magazines rely on $$ from advertising, and they usually end up with a "LONG TERM TEST VEHICLE" from the winners...

"These results are are only to draw in the suckers who are naive enough to believe that the 4wd magazine's in this country have credibility."
HYCLONES! lol
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 02:24

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 02:24
Hi John & Truckster,
You both have hit the nail on the head.
All the 4wd mags appear to be advertorials for two particular makes.

Guess what???

Neither of them is Land-Rover

I'll leave you to guess what they are, but to help you work it out
one starts with an "N" and the other starts with a "T"
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 08:00

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 08:00
Actually John and Truckster, up until a few years ago, that was exactly the way the Australian mags based the yearly awards.

The problem now is that the LR products are just so superior to anything else that the mags could now longer keep lying about them.

When vehicles are so far ahead of ALL the opposition like the LRs are now days, the mags had the stick to the truth if they were to keep even the slightest bit of credibility.

But then again I’m biased, UNLIKE YOU PAIR.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:27

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:27
Would you like a tissue drive safe?

Remember... the P76 was also car of the year once...

ROTFLMAO!
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:40

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:40
Yes Truckster, I would love one, to wipe away the tears of joy at watching Land Rovers thrashing all comers.

What colour are your eyes, green I think.
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Follow Up By: camship - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:49

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:49
Reputations sell cars.
Do the Miners run around in L rovers and Rangies?
Did a Rangie help build the snowy scheme?
Why dont you see many Euro cars in the Outback?

They are not suited to our harsh enviornment. The are suited to the enviornment in which they originate, for which they are perfectly ok. Nice cars to Drive.
As a wholesaler/valuer, I totally cringe when I see one pull up in the Driveway, try finding a Car Dealer that wants to take one on.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:53

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:53
Green eyes.. ROTFLMAO! You have no idea how wrong you could be..

Overpriced pretty Dr's car.. nothing more really.

Also how good is the resale on them LOL!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 12:58

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 12:58
My comments were directed at the magazines not at the respective manufactures. In this instance Land Rover.

I ask the question again, if the system was not biased then why does one magazine supposedly vote one brand/model and the other mags vote someone else?
Can all you LR supporters answer that question?

If the testing was done by one independent body on all vehicles without exception and all the magazines supported that one test and printed the results then we may form a different view.

I am not knocking LR or any other brand or model vehicle for that matter, I'm not in anyway qualified to much such comments as I have not driven every brand of 4wd on the market.
I rely on other information available such as the personal experience of other people when forming an opinion, IE when the mechanics at Birdsville Auto tell me the number one vehicle that they have to recover from the Simpson Desert year in year out is one particular brand then I would think it would be prudent to listen.
After all they are not selling the car and so would be what I would regard as pretty unbiased.
I also rely on owners own experience, so when the President of the Victorian 4wd Association writes in the Spring 2005 issue of "Trackwatch" which is the Associations Magazine, that in his "Brand New" 4wd whilst on the Canning blew not one but three shockers then I take some note, guess what brand/model 4wd he drives?

I also rely on other factors when making a decision about the type of vehicle I drive such as if I do break down in a remote area of Aus then will I be able to get parts easily or will I be stranded for a long period whilst waiting for those parts to arrive. This I see is probably the biggest concern I have with obscure brands of European and American 4wd's, simply no parts outside of major capitals.

I always laugh at the way people on here seem hell bent on justifying their personal choice of car, It reminds me of the school yard arguments of Ford V Holden we used to have. LOL.

In the end its your money, your life and your choice and you will have to live with it right or wrong.
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 13:17

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 13:17
John my sling was at the mags as well but I do like the stir the pot when it comes to discussions about LRs and as you can see, I get some good bites.

As I posted, it’s horses for courses and honestly, who gives a damn anyway.

Cheers mate.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:18

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:18
This bright-spark about the one with the most advertising wins is neither original or true. The same people trotted out this argument when they did the tyre comparo a couple of months ago. They couldn't be bothered checking their facts, but had they done so, would've seen that winners of the test, Pirelli Scorpion did nowhere near the advertising of the other main competitors.

As for the public getting it right and the journos not knowing what they're talking about; first of all they weren't just journos doing the testing and secondly, the public are usually led by the nose (yes, by journos) you'll probably find the gap will close in the sales figures as well. There are already far mor Discos, in particular on the road than there were a few years back. And most 4bys are school buses. So the biggest and most affordable is going to be the big seller. Same reason Commodore and Falcon have been. It's certainly not their their quality.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:30

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:30
Steve you may find that the answer will be found in the future advertising contracts that were negotiated at the time that the various manufactures were approached to supply vehicles for the tests.
Note!In my opinion that there now seems to be a defined increase in Pirelli Advertising in certain magazines since those results have been released.

You still did not answer the question that I posed.
If the system was not biased then why does one magazine supposedly vote one brand/model and the other mags vote someone else?"

If the winner was as good as claimed then surely the respected journalists of the opposing mag would find the same results, Or are you perhaps suggesting that they may not have the same rigorous test profile or the same level of personal experience as the competitor mag?
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:35

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:35
Oh yeah! I never claimed it to be original, but from my 25 years in business don't doubt for an instance that it's true.

Or are you going to perhaps suggest that Coles and Woolies provides Coca Cola with the premier shelf space in the supermarket because Coke is such a wonderful brand, that they thought they should give it top billing or could it just be possible that Coke have paid for that premier shelf space?

As I said in my last line of this post....
To the educated buyer these results would mean nothing.
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Follow Up By: gramps - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:57

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:57
Now, Now John. Don't introduce quality merchandise like Coke into this discussion. It would be a very lopsided win to Coke LOLOLOL
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:54

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:54
Why do the different mags come up with different winners???
Maybe it is because they have different criteria when judging!!
Just because vehicle "T" sells more than vehicle "N" doesnt make it the best.

If my memory is correct, the main reason Theiss used those "Toy" things on the Snowy was because they were not able to obtain sufficient land rovers. Apart from that, Theiss were importers of the original yota's and probably saw the marketing opportunities involved.
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Reply By: gramps - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 01:11

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 01:11
Just wait till Lada start throwing advertising dollars at the 4wd mags. You'll all be rushing out to trade in your cruisers, patrols and Land/Range rovers on you beaut Nivas LOLOLOLOL
AnswerID: 152859

Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 02:25

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 02:25
Strange you might say that. Have a scroll down this page of 'lemons' and see the photo advertisement. Priceless.

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=329&vf=1
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Follow Up By: gramps - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 08:33

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 08:33
hahahaha ... well spotted. Classic!
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Reply By: madCrow - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 02:23

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 02:23
Design excellance is the key word the 4WDOTY.
We can see this simply in the placement of the spare tyre in the Range Rover, quietly kept out of anoying sight under the rear of the vehicle, tucked up tight, out of sight. It's such a good idea Disco 3's now do it & Landcrusiers do it. Others do it........
It's so embarassing (not correct spelling) to drive my lowly Patrol GU down the road knowing it's not 4WDOTY, with my spare tyre on full display, it makes me want to put my tail/spare wheel between my legs & skulk home.
So have sympathy for us Patrol Drivers & even Prado drivers who display our spare tyres (with pride), we may not be 4WDOTY vehicles but we're still crazy enough to display our spares!
Whether hanging off our rears or our midriff's! Ha-Ha!

madCrow

......(\,,,/)
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\\\\(-><-)///// The large shy cat with a hair cut, hides in the grass.
The sound of a truck backfiring makes him sit up straight!
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 11:15

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 11:15
oh my God what have I done!
My spare used to live underneath but now resides on the back in full display, not even a cover. Must be the reason why I always feel the need to wear sunnies even when overcast.
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Reply By: Rock Crawler - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 08:43

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 08:43
Anyone that will buy a car because its was the car of the year , is a wood duck , and I am glad they exist because they make he world go round . Now I am not bagging RR , or any other car for that matter , I just laugh that people actually still read this crap and actually think that there is a vote system in place , or actual judging lol .

I thought after the Holden Camira was voted car of the year people would have woken up
AnswerID: 152876

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:26

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:26
Dont you mean the P76!
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:48

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:48
Truckster isn’t your argument a bit toothless when you have to go back 30 years to try to validate your argument.

But no, wait a minute, that IS how far you have to go back before you can find a pome vehicle that is an equal to today's jap crap.

Good argument.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:51

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:51
WOOSH... Wait till that one lands and you may get it.

BTW, how many other pom cars are still successfully sold here? ANd how long since they have been.

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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 13:22

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 13:22
For the life of me, I can’t work out why people spend a fortune and drive thousands of ks to go fishing, when you can catch whoppers here all the time.

Landy owners have a ball at everybody elses expence, as you can see, and for that reason alone, why wouldn't you buy one.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:10

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:10
Truckster, before you rubbish the poms too much, maybe you should be aware that they would be responsible for pioneering more innovations in the motor vehicle industry than anyone else, such as front wheel drive, 4 wheel drive & I expect you quite like your disc brakes or hmmm..... should we go back to drums?
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Follow Up By: theshadows - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:05

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:05
Truckster the P76 was the cutting teeth of tec of its time. Its just a shame it was built by BMC. Please note that the BMC destroyed the mini, morris 1100 and marina at the same time.

shadow
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:23

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:23
Destroyed the Mini???? Was there a more successful vehicle in the 20th century, other than maybe the VW puddle jumper (Beetle)?
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Follow Up By: gramps - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:33

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:33
I'd humbly submit there's absolutely no "maybe" in it at all. Can't see the Mini's sales even approaching the VW :)))))
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Follow Up By: theshadows - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 21:13

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 21:13
Shaker I typed "BMC destroyed the Mini" the car is fine just not BMC.
Has anyone got the history of the Mini?

I know that Sir Alec Issigonis penned it up for Sir Leonard Lord in about 1955 and it went into production at morris and Austin right away. Know this is where I'm hazy when did BMC come about I thought it was about 1967 or so.
BMC went backrupt in what year ?
Then Leyland took over to which year?
I know Rover took over the mini till 2000. I brought a brand new 1999 mini in from Singapore.It was a hoot with aircond installed. Motorcycle instruments on the steering colum and EFI on the motor.

In 2001 BMW brought the Name didnt they?

Anyone can help?

Shadow
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian M (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 13:51

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 13:51
Ah the mighty Mini...
I still drive a 1972 Clubman GT as my (almost) every day car.

http://miniownersclub.com/mini_history.htm
Gives a great history!

I now drive a Toureg on weekends and I have had a Nissan, 3 LC, RR and ML so I do have some long term experience. Maybe I could select my 4WDOML (... of my life!) over the past 30+ years.
Nissan - wife didn't like the ride or the quality (not build but interior design with cheap fall apart fittings) so I was never allowed to try Nissan again
Toyotas - 60 series was best (bought it new and sold it for 6k profit after 100k - those were the days!)
RR MkII - Only stopped once but depreciation and fuel were ridiculous. (It stopped because the 4.6l engine had the crank of a 4.0l engine. They replaced the engine after 2000k and found the problem when they pulled the original engine down. Ah for the British build QA!
MB ML - just not right for off road or city/highway.
Toureg - too soon to tell and need to buy alternate rims and rubber yet but is good round the city and highway. Yeah I know - that is what it was designed for, but it will get some real work this winter towing the TVan.

I think I will give my award to the mighty Mini - no use off road at all but huge amounts of fun - particulalry at the lights against the kids occasionally.

IAN - still a hoon at heart.
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Reply By: Member - Bware - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:09

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:09
It's not deafening silence anymore ;)
AnswerID: 152895

Follow Up By: gramps - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:54

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:54
Hahahaha just the normal 24 hours on EO. The old faithfuls:

Which 4by
Which fridge

It's Groundhog Day again !!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:00

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:00
Yep, thought I might 'throw the cat amongst the pigeons', I was getting sick of some of the chat room type topics that were emerging!
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Follow Up By: gramps - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:08

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:08
Just keep shakin da tree and da nuts will fall out :)))))))
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Reply By: Jack2000 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 12:38

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 12:38
I am yet to meet anyone who has driven either a RR Sport or Discovery 3 on/off road who has said that their patrol/landcruiser/hilux/jackaroo etc is better.

HOWEVER, the point a lot of people have been trying (I think) to make, is that LR still has a reputation for unreliability, which puts people off buying them (together with high prices).

BUT, please don't think that if you take your Nissan Patrol out for a week in the Vic HC and drive it alongside a RR Sport that you won't prefer to drive the RR Sport - you will. This, though, doesn't mean that a RR Sport is a wise choice for a 10 week outback trip, until they have proven their durability/reliability.

Having said that, for the sort of 4wding I do, which is mostly day trips and weekend trips in Victorian forests/mountains, I would be prepared to take the punt on a Discovery 3 or RR Sport if I had the money.

For what it's worth, I don't think that sales figures are necessarily a good indication of how good a car is. Obviously, though, Land Rover is facing a challenge selling cars in Australia with the attitudes of 4wders such as those who post on this forum. Obviously there is a lot of residual distrust of LR vehicles out here. If they can't sell Discovery 3 and RR Sport, which are simply fantastic cars, they are in trouble out here.

But guys, for the fun of it, try and get behind the wheel of one of the LR cars for a day. You'll love it.
AnswerID: 152913

Follow Up By: Steve - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:29

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:29
"residual distrust'?

more like Barney "Truckster" Rubble attitudes who have hang ups about it because of where it comes from before they'll even open their eyes. Let him display his stupidity.

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:49

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:49
Barney "Truckster" Rubble
Hey I like that, What about it Bruce care to change your name? LOL.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:51

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 14:51
"I am yet to meet anyone who has driven either a RR Sport or Discovery 3 on/off road who has said that their patrol/landcruiser/hilux/jackaroo etc is better."
I took 4 RR drivers away bush for a weekend, all rich fellows & they amazed us with the list of breakdowns & repairs they all had despite no car being over 12 months old. On average their cars had been in the workshop for 15 days each, not alway something major but even when the CD player stopped it still needed to go in. One bloke even had a car on loan for the weekend because his was in the workshop. We had 2 breakdowns on the rangies for that trip, traction control failed on one & rear suspension failure on another.
Our discussion led to "well what other vehicle could we buy that are reliable?" & we suggested possibly the Lexus, the reply being "yes but that's only a Toyota" :-))
3 years & 4 trips later only one person still has a Rangie & you guessed it, 2 bought the Lexus & 1 got a Cruiser GXL. They just got sick of taking the cars in for repair. As I previously posted I hope they sort out their reliability issues as when they do they may be worth buying.
Had an interseting dicussion with an old member of the Landrover club who when I said that 1 in every 20 Landy's was a lemon replyed it's more like 1 in 10. So when you said "I would be prepared to take the punt on a Discovery 3 or RR", that's exactly what you'd be doing.
Cheers Craig.......
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Follow Up By: Steve - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:37

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:37
we can listen to anecdotal evidence all day from both sides but the vehemence of those taking exception to the results says more about their motives. Any other car winning this test, or what ever you want to call it, would be met with a shrug of the shoulders. Why do we really care so much?

Those who think Landrover's lack of popularity in Australia is an argument against the quality of the vehicle need to look beyond our sceptred shores. Harsher conditions have (and still do) existed for the last 50 years here and elsewhere and they've been popular enough.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:54

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 15:54
John, i have just flicked thru the current Aus 4x4 mag in which Pirelli came top of the survey. I have found full page ads from their competitors and Mickey Thompson has a full page ad PLUS a double page spread. Coopers have a full page ad AND a double page spread. No sign of any Pirelli ad. Maybe the Pirelli guys bribed the editor with a cup of tea.

As for your other point, has it got to be unanimous? Whatever, but the LR3 seems to have been roundly applauded. I don't go looking for these surveys and the only 3 that I've heard of, the one discussed here, the Open Road and Aus. 4x4 all had LR at the top of the pile.
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 16:44

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 16:44
Steve

Land Rover sales have dropped in Africa and largely through competition from Pajero.

No-one is saying anything about quality, technology, tyre size, colours or whatever.

This is why Land Rover is doing different things than usual to compete.
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 17:32

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 17:32
What a load of rubbish. I neither no nor care about sales in Africa Land Rover have always be the leader in new 4x4 technologies and companies like toyota have ALWAYS been nothing more than copy cats and nissan are just content with trailing everybody else.

What a load of yon know what, “ This is why Land Rover is doing different things than usual “ There is absolutely nothing unusual about LR doing things different, there not only have been doing thing different since the inception but if they hadn’t, the rest of you would still be riding round in vehicle with fruit crates as front seats.

ev700, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:38

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:38
Pajero?

Colours?

doing things different?

what are you on about?
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:31

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:31
Steve you may not have met a RR or D3 driver who thought another brand was better but that doesn't make it so. If you choose to ignore the anecdotal evidence (of which there is many) thats up to you, stick your head in the sand if you wish but it doesn't change the facts, that their is a disproportionate amount of failures between the relitively small number of landrovers that go offroad in Oz compared to the main competition, Nissan & Toyota. But then Rover aren't targetting people who truely go offroad anyway are they?
Craig.................
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:39

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:39
It's the RACQ figures you need to address rather than attacking me personally.

Why don't sales figures reflect the recommendations of motoring journalists?

There is an obvious chasm between what the motoring journalists are commending and what the consumers buy.

Are all of those buyers stupid or is there some other explanation?
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:46

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:46
Crackles
Sorry didn't see your post in between. As you would realise I was addressing my reply to Steve and drivesafe.
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 20:50

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 20:50
ev700, I don’t now what you are on but it must be good, either that or you have had YOUR head in the sand for some time and missed what is really going on.

Forget all the mag hype and name one off the show room floor jap 4x4 that can compete with an off the show room floor D3 and beat it. THEY DON'T MAKE ONE.

Just have a look at some of the overseas comps and see which vehicle is winning most of them and thats got nothing to do with mags or journos.

Also, I’m off road a bit these days with other landy owners and so far the only problems any of us have encounter were self inflicted ( driver error not vehicle fault ).

Don’t know where you get your facts from but it is sure as hell different to anything I’ve been seeing.
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Follow Up By: ev700 - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 22:10

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 22:10
drivesafe

That is just more personal attack.

Have a good day.
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Reply By: Redback - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 17:42

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 17:42
If LR have paid for the 4WDOTY then they must have alot of money, cause (I'M ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION JOHN) every 4WD mag so far has had a Land Rover win 4WDOTY.

Am i right.

I think i am.

Can't remember any other make winning, even overseas too.
AnswerID: 152974

Follow Up By: Wombat - Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 11:38

Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 11:38
The "advertising dollars = magazine awards" hypothesis was so wrong, Baz that even the least educated buyers would see that it has more holes in it than Snow White.
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Reply By: Rock Crawler - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:57

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 18:57
What a bunch of dreamers . You actually come on here and defend your cars like you believe they are the ducks guts. For Hard core off road , none of the above will do , we have busted enough trying. As for all of you that think one car is better that another over all , sorry to say this , but your on drugs , if your not , you should be. Car today are made to last there warranty, as much as we hate to believe so , we live in a throw away society. All cars have good and bad points , some more than others . We buy cars that suit our budget taste and life style combined . Enjoy what you own and get of your high horses lol
AnswerID: 152993

Follow Up By: Axle - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:12

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:12
You are so correct!!, Its just we throw some things away before others.
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:18

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 19:18
we throw things away according to our financial capabilities , very sad but true
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Follow Up By: Redback - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:56

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:56
Aaahh Eric i don't think there talking about hard core i think and correct me if i'm wrong, they are referiing to 4WDOTY.

Get with the program Eric, ya boofhead ;-)))

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:05

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:05
And thats what I am talking about , if you read from above , you will get my point .

Who is the boofhead now ehh ??

My total point is , that 4wd oty is bull bleep , and there there all crap , he who greases the most pockets win's ,

So you might ask , do I think then that RR are crap , most definently lol , and so are the rest of the cars they try to sell us , including what I drive.

There mission is to build a car as cheap as possible with a look or features that will crab the attention of buyers and then not care about it in 3 years time , because there to busy trying to sell you there latest model.

So my point was , buy what you like out of the crap they give us , and get dont think that its any better than the next car
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:26

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:26
Actually, Crawler, Redback's statement was on the money, this is not about buying a bomb and doing it up it’s about what do people think of the new RRS.

If you don’t like new cars, fine, the point is made. If you want to talk about doing up old 4x4s, why not start a separate thread because as Redback rightly posted, this is not a comparison of old and new.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:39

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:39
what drugs are you on drivesafe lol , who mentioned doing up old cars ?

You put up a rig pic of a shorty and everyone thinks you drive a old rig lol .

Read the post from the top , I know its long now . but then you will get my drift.

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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:53

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 10:53
Crawler, I think the only one around here on drugs is yourself and it’s time you saw your doctor and had the dosage increased.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:42

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 14:42
Maby i need to be on drugs , so i can understabd you lot lol
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Follow Up By: Redback - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 19:29

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 19:29
Yes you do Eric, take them NOW, BOOFHEAD, ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry
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Reply By: woddonnee - Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 23:42

Saturday, Feb 04, 2006 at 23:42
G'day all
Interesting comments. The discovery 3 has one many awards, Best Car in the UK, Best SUV in the USA, Best 4WD in Australia and many others. Just those persons opinions of production line vehicles. I do note that the awards were for "Best", not most common, most popular, most affordable, best value, cheapest. Just Best. LOL
Cheers
Rod
AnswerID: 153036

Reply By: banjodog - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 07:40

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 07:40
At present, FORD now owns LandRover - so isn't FORD being poked in the eye here or maybe a pat on the back depending on your vote.

AnswerID: 153056

Reply By: V8Diesel - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 12:13

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 12:13
They sound like good cars but we won't know the truth for a few years yet.

LR have already exhausted their 'good will' (as the woeful resale values attest) and have a lot of catching up to do. But to be fair, Toyota have done inestimable damage to their rep with an grossly incompetent and poorly designed IFS, poor model options and weakened diffs / gearboxes while Nissan, who could have capitalised on Toyota's misfortune, went the same with way with exploding motors, failing gearboxes (now fixed) and front end wobbles.

We are witnessing a changing of the guard. The old rules do not apply. Who will come out on top can only be determined with the test of time.

I'd say the opposition will all be going in the same ultra high-tech direction so the trick will be picking the one that is reliable. Simplicity is a thing of the past - get used to it.

Re: the Rover, if they don't fall to bits I wouldn't mind one at all. Wait and see.
AnswerID: 153107

Follow Up By: Redback - Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 19:34

Sunday, Feb 05, 2006 at 19:34
Yep only time will tell, like all new models there's bound to be teething problems, but hopefully this will be a good product and will proove itself to be as good as the mags say.

Baz.
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