Gen set versus Solar

Mate, this topic has been done to death in the past. You'll find there are those that swear by solar and others (like me) who prefer the gen set direction.
My decision was based on the fact that I don't often need to top my batteries up whilst on a trip as we tend to not stay in one camp site for more than 2 or 3 days, so flat batts are usually not a problem.
However, when those occasions do crop up (and that includes extremely hot weather when fridges will take their toll on batteries within a day), it is easier to run the gen set for a few hours to bring the batts back up. I run a Fullriver 120a/h gel batt in the Patrol which looks after the 40 litre Engel and also have 2 x 105a/h Super Charge SLAs in the camper trailer to run the 80 litre upright Engel, water pump, lights etc. I also have 2 x 15amp 3 stage charges; one in Patrol and one in camper trailer. I fire up the Yamaha and the 2 chargers go into action on the batteries as well as taking over the direct running of the 2 fridges.
The other thing, in my particular circumstances is that the gennie plus a 10 litre jerry can of petrol is actually easier to find a place for in the CT than what a large, bulky solar panel would be. The solar also really needs to be "on" all day and needs to be moved to follow the sun. Thsi means you need to stay at/near camp all day. With genie, I leave it locked away and only usually start it up late afternoon for a couple of hours and turn off by say 8pm. Also must be very conscious of others camped nearby.

I say get a genny or 3 and rip the mufflers off so you make friends around the bush.

While people are thinking about it could they consider this?

I've been loaned a 60W panel (fold away style) for a trip. It just has two 30W panels hinged together and the leads off the back go to croc clips.

I had it out this arvo and hooked it up to a 12v 40Ah gel cell.

I recorded readings of

V (under load of battery) = 16.02 - 16.05v
Amps delivered = 2.1 - 2.5A

To me that's over charging. Monitored closely you could get away with it for a while, and on the next trip the battery will simultaneously have a fridge drawing similar current off the battery so voltage may drop off under load - and the battery it will be charging is an N70ZZ (12" starting battery).

Even with small panels how necessary is it to run a regulator?

I'm new to solar and will eventually set up the camper with a solar setup but for now I'm just looking and learning.

Dave

Freezer,
the maggots are beginning to swarm.
We run a 50L Waeco off a 123w Sharp panel.Panel cost was $970, and I spent about the same again with controller,leads, Al section for roof mount.
So far - Brilliant, But so far in hot (but cloud free ) N Aust.
We leave for Tassie in 2 days . Maybe different.
A major "un needed" is petrol in jerrycans in the back.
It may be different if your rig uses petrol.

Hard question - best wishes.
Jeff H.

Freezer, I've got a gennie (Kipor 1KVA) and no solar panels, so what am I going to say??

Reason though is tha gennie charges faster than solar, I can govern when it is used (not the sun) and with my set up it is easier to carry. Also the 3 stage charger I use with the gennie also gets used when I have access to 240V.

In my view, if you are a 'camper' rather than a 'traveller', solar might be the go. Otherwise, go the gennie but be considerate of others.

Freezer, in my humble opinion its not an 'or' question. To cover yourself for all eventualities you should consider having BOTH.
There will be times when you are glad you do have both.
For a longer stay it is my opinion that 80W of solar is not sufficient to supply 40 Ah*/day (this IS the correct term) to your toys AND keep your battery fully charged.

* Just to be nitpicking, Ah (Amphours) is a battery capacity term, you drain that much, you have to replace that PLUS losses to keep the battery full.
40Ah can be 40Amp for one hour or 4 Amp for 10 hours if you get my drift. Though you'll need a mighty BIG battery to supply 40A or accept a 40A charge continuously for one hour ;-)

Klaus

Gennie/solar?
We try to hide, but have struck 'after dark' buddies with clapped out gennie mufflers on 3 occassions, the last being a 'muso' group in a bus,all watching TV as the moon (sorry, that should read Full, Brilliant Moon rising over---)
Same trip, different place. We arrived late, sussed the place out, went away to gather wood for the night.
Came back, and the Old Fart (ahem)apologised for running the gennie.(Had to finish baking the bread, as I recall). He was maybe 2 cricket pitches distant from us. We never noticed it ---
Individual cirmstances, and enjoy.
Jeff H.

In 4wdmonthly recently, I saw an ad/article for a battery charger - that was based (from memory) on a Honda gernator motor - but designed purely to charge batteries.

The article suggested that it does this in a fraction of the time that a generator will do it.

This interested me as everything we use when we are camping uses 12v - don't really need a generator - jut a charged 12v supply.

I hope this makes sense - can't remember the brand.

Has anyhone any experience with something along these lines?

Alan

If your Gel cell reads 16 Volts with 2 amps going into it, it's probably on the way out (especially if it wasn't full, as you said).
A 60 Watt panel would be useful to extend the time before you need to start the engine, but it will not be able to keep up running the fridge all the time (maybe it will if it's very sunny and you spend all your time carefully the aiming the panel all day).
You don't need a regulator with this setup as you will not be able to overcharge the battery.
Cheers
(Gil appreciates confidentiality)

Hi Freezer, just thought I would pass on a bit of what I have learned from practical experience. We went away to central Qld at Xmas, it was 35-42C most of the time during the day,not much cooler at night. We are running explorer 70 lt fridge & freezer , couple of fluro camp lights of a 90 AH AGM aux battery that is managed by a rotronics duel battery system, also have hooked a digital volt gauge on the aux battery to help monitor battery. We were using a Christie / honda battery charger , IMO they are very loud, found we had to run this for 2-3 hours per day.We were camped so the vehicle was not being driven. We have since put a 3 stage 20 amp smart charger in (cost including wiring etc $330), permently wired in the vehicle & run a cheap GMC 750 watt generator cost $98 (from Bunnings) don't know if we got a rare one or what but it is very quiet, I compared it side by side with a mates EU 1 Honda and it's may just be a little louder. I was told before buying the smart charger that there would be no warranty if I was using a generator, I have taken that risk, the specs on the charger however say voltage range can be from 170-270 volt ac. quite tolerant I thought. I have had the gennie checked while running the charger when it is at max charge , voltage varies from 220-240 volts. The advise I was given & have adhered to was start gennie first then switch on the charger to avoid large voltage spikes. I run the charger through a surge protected power board. We went away at the end of January, conditions not as hot as xmas, found running the gennie using a 15 meter HD extension lead for about 3 hours during the day was ample to recharge aux battery, I shut the gennie off once the charger indicates float charge. I wanted to go the solar option however cost was the major limiting factor for us. The fridge stays in the back of the ute most of the time so I just plug the charger in when I get home each night.
I am not making any sugestions here just passing on what I have found works for me, no doubt I will learn via this forum some or all of what I am doing is incorrect, but I know in practise it works. Hope this is of some help.
Regards
Nutter

I use a little 800 w Austec Generator , but I take about 200mtrs of extention leads so I can make sure its well away from everyone , I also erect one of thse beach shade tents (shade shelters) over the genny to keep any rain or junk off it. and dont forget to use a ground spike (Earth)

Its a question of doing the right thing, if you make sure that what you do does not bother others, then using a genny is fine

Within reason and with the odd exception the charging voltage is not important. What is - is the effect of that charging voltage - and that effect is the charging current that results and also the temperature of the battery.

For a deep-cycle battery charging current should not exceed 20-25% of the battery capacity - thus a nominally 100 Ah deep cycle battery should not be charged at much over 20-25 amps. No matter the charging rate however, the electrolyte should not exceed 50 degrees C (this is often hard/impossible to measure but case temperature is close enough.

On excepotion is where a battery is heavily suphated. This results in high internal resistance and then charging voltage will (even with a flat battery) show as high (but 16 volts is exceptionally so) and charging current as low.

It is correct that, with constant voltage charging, as charge increases and voltage thus rises, charge current falls.

It is for this reason that deep cycle will only accept a heavy charge until about 50-55% charged. From there on charge rate is likely to fall to ony a few amps and to virtually cease by not much over 70% charge.

An 80 watt solar module is unlikely to produce anything like 40 Ah/day.

Such a module produces 4.6 amps (it says so on its back).

At the typical summer 5-6 Peak Sun Hours for much of Oz that's 23-27 Ah/day max. A safer assumption is 18-20 Ah/day. If you assume 40 Ah/day you'll need to acquire a taste for warm beer!
Collyn Rivers

Freezer , how cold do you want your beer , from personal experience 1x 80watt panel will NOT supply enough "grunt" for a better term to run your waeco ect ect ,,no way will you get 40amps [you would have to be up at sparrow fart and costantly move the panel every degree as the sun moves untill sunset ] .Sugest you redo your sums as per power required per 24hr period . We run a 120watt Kycera +a 64 watt unisolar for a total of 11.8 amps per hr in "perfect" conditions ,that gives 70/75 amps perday in peak hrs ,,our 80lt Waeco uses 64amps per 24hrs [on average], throw in the odd light ect ect means no real surplus ,, overcast day/s rain ect ,out comes the genny [2 stroke 950watt Scorpion 53db ] if allowed and if not the cruiser set at 1500revs soon makes up the shortfall.

Another trick you could try is dig a hole about 1to 2 foot deeo and place the genny inside it, apparetly it will half the noise, so a friend told me. I know who wants to dig a hole that deep, it's bad enough to dig a hole for your ka ka. :-)