Kipor generators

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 20:40
ThreadID: 31303 Views:8176 Replies:13 FollowUps:23
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Has anyone out there got a Kipor gen set? I am looking at getting a good one for camping, to charge DC Batteries, via a baterry charger. I know honda and yamaha are the best, but Kipor are a good price and they are aparently one of the top units across europe.

Cheers
Freezer
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 21:01

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 21:01
I think you should buy an Engel.

Mike Harding
AnswerID: 157923

Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:56

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:56
If I put a block of ice in an Engal and stand it in the the sun, will it work as a thermoelectric DC generator ?? I hear the Waecko is very efficient at this, particularly if you have the later bi-refractive model.

Mike
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FollowupID: 412378

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Friday, Mar 03, 2006 at 21:07

Friday, Mar 03, 2006 at 21:07
I shouldn't comment - my names not Mike
but can I add the fridge has to be 24v model and not 12v to work that way roflmao
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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 07:47

Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 07:47
Well doesn't that show the advantage of the Waecko over the Engal - it can be either 12 or 24 volt - the label on mine says so :-)

Mike
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 08:04

Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 08:04
Look! You guys are talking total rubbish!

It was clearly established by Hottenburg in his famous 1964 series of experiments that molecular activity stimulated by the transition process to liquid encouraged electron motion to the point of generating a electron cloud _providing_ the ambient temperature was maintained at, or below, zero K. Now as you know (or should know if you claim to have studied this area?) the formation of a electron cloud in an enclosed chamber (and the Engel is ideal here because of it’s metal construction) _will_ result in a potential difference between the chamber (Engel) and it’s contents (come on guys! that’s obvious) and the inevitable consequence of such a difference will force current to flow in the local environment which, of course, produces energy. The inescapable conclusion of this is that the Engel _will_ be more efficient and use less power from your battery. Therefore you don’t need a Kipor and this whole thread has been pointless!

Now let’s hear no more of your silly theories on this matter.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 13:12

Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 13:12
yeah, Mike so if that's true how come it won't werk when used on an angle greater than the suns lunchtime angle in the winter??
It won't.... Hottenburg in his famous 1964 series of experiments proved it was not possible to leave the door closed under that amount of zero K refrigerant preasure, read the Hotties reports about electron motion under distinct molecular activity the following year....

Maybe a SOLAR system is the answer ?
Reefer fridge ?
Fullriver deep cycle agm battery ?
Now, let’s- r e a d -no more silly theories on this matter :-)
(roflmao, sorry about the hyjack)
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 15:03

Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 15:03
>yeah, Mike so if that's true how come it won't werk when
>used on an angle greater than the suns lunchtime angle in
>the winter??

I assume you mean a 90 degree angle of pivotal motion – although your terminology is, to say the least, unorthodox?

It is true that Hottenberg’s (did you know he changed the family name from the Germanic/Jewish Hottenburger to Hottenberg when migrating to Israel in 1953?) 1964 conclusions were questioned by an academic from the Heidelberg School, Chilshyme Boag, who challenged that an electron cloud could not co-exist in an environment with the, not insubstantial, pressures (to which you correctly allude) created by the solid to liquid transition process at zero K. However, Mainey, (and this, I am afraid, is where you clearly fail to understand the complex subtleties of this event) Bier Kühlraum in his 1966 paper entitled (and I’m translating from the original German here) “The effect of angular pivotal motion on the crystalline process encountered during electron cloud propagation” established, beyond all doubt, that this is a quantum condition which occurs far more often than is readily recognised – and, incidentally, to get back onto 4WD stuff, regularly accounts for that one can of beer which, unaccountable freezes in your Engel when all the other don’t.

>Maybe a SOLAR system is the answer ?

Solar! – Schmolar! – You stick with Hottenberg and the Engel and you’ll be OK.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 15:17

Saturday, Mar 04, 2006 at 15:17
Mike as you say "and, incidentally, to get back onto 4WD stuff, regularly accounts for that *ONE* can of beer which, unaccountable freezes in your Engel when all the other don’t"

Waaah, that's a reall problem, however if you used a REEFER PREMIER fridge you could freeze the lot, mine fits 6 x 6 packs under the wire basket in my 70 Litre :-) and that leaves 34 Litres to put food into and then there is the extra 16 Litres of actual seperate freezer cabinet for the icecream and frozen Barra fillets etc L0L

Mike does that mean the Engel will only freeze *one* can at a time or is it run directly off the Hottenberg lineer slider system ?
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FollowupID: 413018

Reply By: pojo - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 21:02

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 21:02
price seem right compared with honda
AnswerID: 157924

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 21:04

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 21:04
Do a search Freezer. Quite a few posters have them. I have a 1KVA Kipor. Cost a bit over $800. Hasn't had a real lot of use yet, but it has been great so far.
AnswerID: 157925

Reply By: RedGibber - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 21:57

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 21:57
Same as Norm...I picked up a 1kva Kipor from the camping show in Perth late last year at around same price and altho I haven't used it much, seems OK and does the job for me!.

For intermittent/occasional use it should do the job for you too....but if you're planning on long term regular use you may want to go with the Honda or Yammie. Up to you.....
AnswerID: 157943

Reply By: Baler - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:09

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:09
I got a 1kva, had for over 12 months. Great unit, starts first or second pull. Very happy with it. Probably done approx 20 hours or so.

All the best
AnswerID: 157950

Follow Up By: FREEZER - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:18

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:18
how does it go for noise?
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FollowupID: 412286

Follow Up By: Baler - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:50

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:50
I have only heard a 2kva honda to compare so can't say if louder or not to a 1kva. My guess is maybe a bit louder but still quiet.
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FollowupID: 412375

Reply By: waynet - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:34

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:34
Freezer

Rather than buy a 240 volt generator and a battery charger, a much better and more efficient system for camping is a 12 volt dc motor generator unit such as the Christie unit. I made my own from a honda motor and a 42 amp bosch alternator nearly 18 years ago (as well as several others for friends) and find this is the quickest way to charge batteries, especially AGM batteries. The cheaper generators have very poor voltage and frequency control so compressor type fridges (Engel, Waeco, Trailblazer, Autofridge) should never be run on these generators. If you go for the 240 volt generator/ battery charger setup you need to buy a good 2 or 3 stage charger with an output of at least 25 amps or better and these can be very expensive as well as the cost of the generator. Dont be tempted to buy a cheap charger as these can damage expensive batteries because they generally do not have a good regulated output. Because the 12 volt dc motor/ generator system has a high current out put the batteries are charged much quicker, you dont have to run the motor for as long as a 240 volt system so therefore less noise around the camp. I generally run mine for about 1 to 1.5 hours every day instead of letting the batteries get down too low, this will also give you better life from your batteries. I hope this info helps you and doesnt get you too confused, everyone has a different sytem but this is the one that I have used successfully for 18 years or more.

Happy camping
Wayne
AnswerID: 157957

Follow Up By: FREEZER - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:46

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:46
Thanks Wayne for your feedback.
I have heard of these christie units. A few questions about them

1. how do they differ from useing your car alternater
2. i have heard they are 70 dB, that is quite loud isnt it.
3. what do the cost

Cheers
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FollowupID: 412297

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 23:08

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 23:08
Everything has it's place in the market. I considered one of the battery charges at the time I was looking for a gennie. I went the gennie as:

It can be used for other purposes as well to drive 240V appliances. Charge laptop, phone and camera batteries. Run a small 240V fan we sometimes spoil ourselves with etc.
The battery chargers I saw were noiser than the better generators. Don't know if this is true for all.

Didn't worry me that I needed a good 3 stage battery charger. I needed (had) one any way to charge the batteries well when I have access to 240V (home, caravan park occasionally, drop in on friends and rellies while travelling.

Others will have a routine that suits the 12 Volt petrol charger. For me, I prefer the gennie.
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FollowupID: 412307

Follow Up By: waynet - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 23:52

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 23:52
Freezer

To answer your questions

I dont know the exact cost. Check
www.christieengineering.com.au or
fridge-and-solar.net

70dB is slightly more noisy than the new super quiet generator sets but you dont need to run them for very long (I run mine for 1 to 1.5 hrs./day) and also because it is generating DC you dont have to worry about frequency, this means after about 10 minutes ( it takes about 10 minutes to reduce the initial high current output) you can reduce the engine speed; reducing noise, fuel consumption, and engine wear.

As for using your car alternator, This is a big NO NO. Why would you run an 80hp or more engine to do about 3hp of work? This is not a very efficient use of fuel and is extremely detrimental to an engine, especially a diesel. It will cause bore glazing which can quite often lead to high oil usage. Diesel engines like to be run at the correct operating temperature and generally better than about 75% to 80% load, this cannot be achieved by running the alternator only.
Hope this helps to answer your questions.

Happy camping

Wayne

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FollowupID: 412320

Follow Up By: kesh - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 08:16

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 08:16
Wayne. Interested in that you made up your own, also did the same about 12yrs. ago.
Did you direct couple the alternator?I used a 4 1/2 hp Honda belt driving a N/Denso alternator at 3500 rpm, engine 2800.
Is the Bosch internal/external regulated? The Denso is external and it took quite a while to get a regulator charging arrangement to suit single and multiple battery charging.
When long term camping it uses around 5l./week to maintain batteries operating 60l. Trailblaza as freezer, 20w. halogen lights, invertor for laptop, radio.
Runs about 1-1 1/2hrs./day. Made a muffler from 2 large oil filter canisters, noise not a problem. Is fixed in the back of the vehicle and all hard wired/fused.
kesh
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Follow Up By: waynet - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 21:52

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 21:52
Kesh

I am using a 3.5hp Honda with a belt drive to a 42 amp Bosch external regulated alternator and Bosch regulator. At full throttle the motor runs at 3600 rpm and the pulley sizes are 125mm on the motor and 100mm on the alternator. The Bosch regulator has a very small wire bridge undeneath near the epoxy resin, if this wire is cut the regulator will control the voltage at 1 volt higher than the normal 13.8 volts, this is the same as running a charger on boost and will not damage any battery regardless of battery type. I dont have any trouble charging multiple batteries, I have had 4 different size batteries, 2 Engel fridges, and a Trailblazer fridge (all running as freezers) connected at the same time with no problems running like this for 10 days. I have an ammeter on mine so that I can see when the current is reducing, I turn the motor speed down as the current reduces and can get the motor speed to a fast idle, this saves fuel and reduces noise. I carry a 250 watt invertor to charge batteries for the phone, camera, laptop, cordless drill, and torch. I have installed a LINK 10 battery monitor for the auxiliary battery which tells me how many amphours I have used out of the battery and it also tells me when the same number of amphours have been put back in by the generator so I can then switch the generator off instead of running the generator trying to charge a fully charged battery.
I have used 240 volt systems but have found this to be the safest and most efficient system for camping, no 240 volt leads running around the camp waiting to bite someone and also safer when there is a bit of moisture around. Others on this Forum seem to like the 240 volt systems and I guess each person has to find a system that suits their needs, but while they are running their 240 volt systems for a minimum of 8 hours or more per day I only run mine for maybe 1.5 hours. I hope this information is of some value to you.

Happy camping

Wayne
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FollowupID: 412569

Follow Up By: kesh - Friday, Mar 03, 2006 at 07:51

Friday, Mar 03, 2006 at 07:51
Thanks for that Wayne. I originally used the reed type regulator the alternator had, then the early RE55 Bosch, now the later type with the bridge. I cut the bridge and soldered a wire to each side with a switch so I can vary the charge 13.8 -14.8v. I can also switch out the reg. and switch in a wire resistor (from an old reed reg.) which will increase the charge voltage to 15.5v. at 8a. From Marine info. an equalising charge of around 15v. at low a. is required to fully charge a wet cell battery.
Like yours, I reduce revs as the charge comes up. Also have volt/ammeter to keep an eye on things. I use a Bosch marine solenoid to connect main/aux. systems and a manual switch to connect extra batts. Our long term camp is up to 3-5mths. with no battery problems.
I am in n.nsw. Can you tell me where you obtained the Link 10 monitor please?
Thanks kesh
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Follow Up By: waynet - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 22:14

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 22:14
Hi Kesh

I bought the LINK 10 from Val Rigoli. Web address

www.fridge-and-freezer.net

Happy camping

Wayne
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FollowupID: 413303

Follow Up By: waynet - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 22:18

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 22:18
Hi Kesh

Sorry, wrong adress. Try www.fridge-and-solar.net

Happy camping

Wayne
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FollowupID: 413305

Follow Up By: kesh - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 17:07

Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 17:07
Thanks Wayne. Will make contact with them
kesh
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FollowupID: 413423

Reply By: RosscoH - Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:58

Wednesday, Mar 01, 2006 at 22:58
Hi Freezer,
Got a 2kva kipor, goes like a dream, they are not a new generator, just new to the Australian Market, they are one of Europes top sellers and just as good as the expensive ones, My 2 kva will run a 2400watt cut off saw no trouble.
Cheers Rossco.
AnswerID: 157970

Reply By: russ36 - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 05:39

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 05:39
currently i run a small household air con ,12 v fridge , lights etc on a 2kva honda. and its all within the generators rated ability. the suggestion of running a 2400 watt appliance easily of the 2kva set prompts me to ask..is for example a 1000 watt elec drill flexible enough to run on a generator that produces only 700 watts, is the drills performance likely to be inferior, is the life of the tool compromised. is the 1000 watts required only a guide? i guess some equipment is more dependant on the correct generator output than others?
AnswerID: 157992

Reply By: Mike DiD - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 08:56

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 08:56
Freezer I have the 1kVA Kipor bought via eBay off the guy near Newcastle before his shipment came in so it was good price.

It will run an Angle Grinder or 2-door home fridge. I tried it on our neighbours 2-door fridge but it shut down because of the big startup current. Apparently one run-in they have can handle more output load.

Like the Honda and Yamaha, the Kipor has variable engine speed (smart throttle) so it will run near idle if you are just charging a laptop.

Like the Honda, Yamaha, GMC etc the "12 volt" output is only rectified AC and is totally unregulated. It will cook your battery if not disconnected when the battery approaches full charge. You CANNOT use this output to power 12 appliances - battery charging only.

Mike
AnswerID: 158023

Follow Up By: StephenF10 - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:30

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:30
Is this Projecta charger regulator suitable to use with the unregulated 12v output from a gennie?

Stephen.
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FollowupID: 412368

Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:52

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:52
You would really need to check with Projecta to be sure.

Most basic chargers also provide rectified AC (rather than DC) which is what the Generators provide, so in theory it should work.

Mike
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FollowupID: 412377

Reply By: Darian (SA) - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:32

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:32
I bought a Yam, but in light of the above responses should say that I think you are on the right track with inverter type gennies. The 2kva units are possibly the best value for $ but too heavy and bulky for my camping needs - they translate well to caravans. Re the 1Kva, fact is that as well as charging batteries quietly, you can use them for a variety of other appliances, including the electronically sensitive ones. The Christie is single purpose - noisy, fast, battery charging only. If you go that way, you'd also need an expensive sine wave inverter if opting for electronic appliance use.
AnswerID: 158053

Reply By: lizard - Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 15:38

Thursday, Mar 02, 2006 at 15:38
Bought a Kipor 2 kva , runs my off rd van aircond , seems as quiet as Honda - am satisfied with the $800 saving over a Honda.
AnswerID: 158105

Reply By: time waster - Friday, Mar 03, 2006 at 19:36

Friday, Mar 03, 2006 at 19:36
Just picked up and tried our new Kipor 980 camping mate, it's red and max output of 720 Watt cont 650 only 10kg seems as quiet as the neighbours Honda's 1, and the price $475.
AnswerID: 158389

Reply By: Mike DiD - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 15:17

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 15:17
Here's disclaimer from a battery manufacturer that indicates the limitations with the "DC" output of Generators.

"Petrol Generators: A petrol/diesel powered generator may be used in conjunction with one of our fully automatic battery chargers for recharging. We do not recommend that the battery be recharged from the "Charge Outlet" of the generator (if fitted) as the charge regulation is insufficient. Recharging a PowerDive AGM from the "Charge Outlet" will void your warranty should the battery be damaged."
- http://www.absorbedpower.com/battery/support/faq/

Mike

AnswerID: 158705

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 17:04

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 17:04
And if I was selling batteries I would say the same but it's purely a bottom covering exercise.

I can only speak for my GMC gen. which is probably worse than Honda et al in this regard but from memory, when connected to a battery it's producing a terminal voltage of about 17V and has a current capability of 8 amps. Now 17V is outside the spec. of the batteries you mention above (15V max) but I don't think it matters _providing_ the charging voltage is not so high that it causes an insulation breakdown within the battery. What is much more important is the total energy being forced into the battery and particularly the portion of that energy which is dissipated as heat within the battery case rather than being converted into chemical storage, it’s excess heat during the charging process which will cause problems. The quoted 90Ah battery has a maximum charging current of 22A at 15V or 330W - my GMC gen can do 17V at 8A or 136W which is only 41% of the battery's absorption capability. I don't think larger AGMs or SLAs will mind at all about being charged from the DC output of a gen.

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 413219

Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 17:10

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 17:10
I think the problem only occurs when the battery approaches full charge.

Because this output is constant current (like a solar panel) it will continue to pump the full 8 amps into the battery forever - unlike a regulated constant voltage charger where the current will automatically reduce as the battery approaches full charge, thereby reducing power dissipation in the battery.

Mike
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FollowupID: 413223

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 17:31

Sunday, Mar 05, 2006 at 17:31
Certainly a battery should not be left on charge from a gen for extended periods but that is the same with any charger (float excluded) which does not electronically monitor the voltage and reduce it's charge current accordingly. Once the battery is fully charged then 100% of the charging energy will be converted to heat but one soon learns a rough "rule of thumb" approach to charging a battery in this manner and the timings are not critical - a bit of overcharge won't kill the battery, a 90Ah battery is a _big_ thermal mass - just try lifting the buggers! :)

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 413226

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